Bailout is for our Government's ability to continue the BORROW & SPEND POLICIES?

[Care4all]

IT AIN'T US that the bailout really helps....

It's the government's ability to SPEND, SPEND, SPEND and borrow the money from foreigners to do it instead of raising taxes on the wealthiest to pay for it....indirectly taxing the middle class thru less buying power with the devalued dollar?

president bush and his administration and majority congress began with a $5.6 trillion dollar, accumilated national debt over a century's time....we just raised our debt level of borrowing to $11.4 TRILLION, this means in 7 years we have added $5.8 TRILLION to our national debt, MORE than all of our debt in our entire borrowing history as a country....in just 7 years.

this is why i can not vote republican, even though i am not enamored with obama....Republicans should not be rewarded with another CHANCE, they should be punished, by losing their seats and control thru the presidency....i would be saying the same, if it had been dems in power when this happened, they would have deserved to lose their seats....

care

 

[Care4all]

maybe it isn't to continue the borrowing and spending? maybe it is to get our nations credit rating lowered below the AAA that we always held which raises our interest rates on the debt, causing more than 80% of our income tax revenues going to the banks for the interest payments alone on that debt.....? in other words, BUST the gvt, by giving all our taxes to the bank payment?

just another conspiracy?

who really knows at this point....i don't trust anybody....

 

[user_name_guest]

IT AIN'T US that the bailout really helps....

It's the government's ability to SPEND, SPEND, SPEND and borrow the money from foreigners to do it instead of raising taxes on the wealthiest to pay for it....indirectly taxing the middle class thru less buying power with the devalued dollar?

president bush and his administration and majority congress began with a $5.6 trillion dollar, accumilated national debt over a century's time....we just raised our debt level of borrowing to $11.4 TRILLION, this means in 7 years we have added $5.8 TRILLION to our national debt, MORE than all of our debt in our entire borrowing history as a country....in just 7 years.

this is why i can not vote republican, even though i am not enamored with obama....Republicans should not be rewarded with another CHANCE, they should be punished, by losing their seats and control thru the presidency....i would be saying the same, if it had been dems in power when this happened, they would have deserved to lose their seats....

care

Who invest in the jobs for Americans: Middle class or the rich? If we tax the rich, the additional tax replaces the investment. What will happen? Increase in tax in one group will reduce jobs in another.

What we need is caps on executive pay like Obama proposes. Performance-pay has negative consequences and needs to be look heavily at.

 

[Care4all]

Who invest in the jobs for Americans: Middle class or the rich? If we tax the rich, the additional tax replaces the investment. What will happen?
Increase in tax in one group will reduce jobs in another.

we prospered in the 90's with higher taxes on the wealthiest, how come your theory did not apply THEN? while during the 2000's we lowered taxes on the wealthiest, while borrowing the money, which devalued our dollar, indirectly hitting the middle and lower classes with a form of higher taxes...

just fuel for thought!

Care

 

[user_name_guest]

we prospered in the 90's with higher taxes on the wealthiest, how come your theory did not apply THEN? while during the 2000's we lowered taxes on the wealthiest, while borrowing the money, which devalued our dollar, indirectly hitting the middle and lower classes with a form of higher taxes...

just fuel for thought!

Care

Remember all those corporate scandals of big corporations mis-stating their earnings. I wonder how much taxes came out of that? Wealthiest paid 4% more taxes in the 1990s than the 2000s. They still account for more of the government revenue than the other classes combined today. They are the suppliers of people's jobs. If there wasn't a tax cut (affected all Americans, not the rich), more people would have been unemployed than they were during this decade.

Natural disasters, war in Iraq, 9-11 attacks = occurred after the 1990s. Would the 1990s be able to handle a Katrina (>Andrew), 9-11 (>WTC 93), War in Iraq (>OKC bombing). Do you think these tragedies would have a lesser impact in the 1990s?

Tax cuts shouldn't happen unless you reduce spending. Obviously that never happened. Imagine if we can make all these government programs efficiently in terms of using taxpayers dollars. There is a lot of waste occurring. Examples are FEMA, Medicare, potential bailouts, (insert more)

 

[Care4all]

Remember all those corporate scandals of big corporations mis-stating their earnings. I wonder how much taxes came out of that? Wealthiest paid 4% more taxes in the 1990s than the 2000s. They still account for more of the government revenue than the other classes combined today. They are the suppliers of people's jobs. If there wasn't a tax cut (affected all Americans, not the rich), more people would have been unemployed than they were during this decade.

Natural disasters, war in Iraq, 9-11 attacks = occurred after the 1990s. Would the 1990s be able to handle a Katrina (>Andrew), 9-11 (>WTC 93), War in Iraq (>OKC bombing). Do you think these tragedies would have a lesser impact in the 1990s?

Tax cuts shouldn't happen unless you reduce spending. Obviously that never happened. Imagine if we can make all these government programs efficiently in terms of using taxpayers dollars. There is a lot of waste occurring. Examples are FEMA, Medicare, potential bailouts, (insert more)

the defense budget is where most fraud and abuse occurs....

i think in the 1990's if we were spending the hundreds of billions on wars, we would not have lowered taxes, during that wartime....

oh, and without the middle class buying those goods and services of the wealthiest, then they would not have their businesses, nor their big paying titles, nor their wealth....

i see it is a marriage that has to function, and it isn't a one sided marriage...where one is priviledged over the other....

 

[user_name_guest]

the defense budget is where most fraud and abuse occurs....

i think in the 1990's if we were spending the hundreds of billions on wars, we would not have lowered taxes, during that wartime....

oh, and without the middle class buying those goods and services of the wealthiest, then they would not have their businesses, nor their big paying titles, nor their wealth....

i see it is a marriage that has to function, and it isn't a one sided marriage...where one is priviledged over the other....

I have read that medicare and medicaid fraud account for an estimated $33 billion. Now the government programs that support illegal immigrants is in the billions. Welfare fraud = $$$. There are many fraud committed on our taxpayers' money. We reduce fraud, we increase the efficiency in our government. Therefore, taxes paid = properly well-spent. Defense fraud = $$$. Education fraud = $$$. Do we want to send government money when they are losing a percentage of it to handout scams.

Do you see the rich point a gun on the head of the middle class to buy their products? No. They provide the goods and services that the middle class demands. They need the income which are provided in the form of jobs. They want the necessities and luxuries which the rich provided in the form of goods and services. Punishing one class (most notably the rich) is a political tactic. A ploy for a political party to use to gain support from the majority. I believe taxes should be the same for all groups. We shouldn't break people down into pay brackets. Everyone should have the same tax rate. But because we need this progressiveness in our tax rates, we have ways for politicians to get elected.

However, not everyone is good in any social class. You have frauds in the poor, middle class, rich. Of course, the fraud in the rich can have extraordinary gains in the expense of everyone else. But we shouldn't ignore the same problems that occurred down below. Look at identity theft. I doubt someone rich needs to steal someone identity to make cash.

Equal rights = Equal tax rate. Of course, you make more income, you will pay more regardless of the tax rate. But there are loopholes in the tax system that allow people with a lot of money to reduce his taxable income. Maybe circumvent this problem.

 

[Navy1960]

Care, you make some great points and on this "bailout" well I think you know where I stand on it. My feeling is that instead of looking for a single party fault, perhaps we as the ones that are going to have to take a big bite out this "shit sandwich" should look at the culture in Washington as a whole both Republican and Democrat that passes legislation year after year and leaves the interests of those they are SUPPOSED to represent as a low priority and for years has kept the interests of PAC's, donors, and special interests well in front of the very people they represent. So you wish to make a real change in Washington, then stop voting for the same person year after year after year.

On the defense budget, yes it's large, but do you have any idea how badly mismanaged the DoD has been for years? I am not talking about the last 8. I am talking more like the last 18. Let me cite you some examples, you would think after spending untold billions upon billions of dollar the US Navy would not be flying an aircraft that that is based on a 30 year old design? This is not just the Navy look at the USAF, it's front line fighters the F-16 and the F-15 are still in service and their designs go back to the 70's. They are supposed to be replaced soon by the F-22 and the F-35 however, they have reduced the number of both those types of aircraft. The list is endless, he B52 is over 60 years old the B-1 goes back to the Carter Administration. We have spent billions on programs that have been cancelled because some Senator or Administration wanted to cut them after the DoD had already spent billions of dollar on it. One example of this, would be the Comanche Helicopter, an after literally 20 years of development the V-22 project is just now comming back online. So if this tells you anything, it's not so much the amount of money, it's the bad management of the DoD. This one will really help it sink in for you. you have no doubt heard of the F117 "Stealth" well in their infinte wisdom the DoD has decided that the F117 will be retired this year a full 15 years before it's service life is to be ended. Why? because they needed the money. Another little gem is some of this military hardware ends up in the hands of countries that are less than friendly to us. Take for example the FFG-7 Oliver Hazard Perry Class firgates, Some of them were retired very early in their careers and we are now selling them to countries like Pakistan. You remember the F14 made famous by the movie topgun. Well thats been retired as it should have been because the airframe was ending its service life. However, some of the spare parts for these Aircraft it is alleged wound up in the hands of Iran who needed them to make their F14's airworthy again. So just a little food for thought Care. It's not su much the amount its how its managed.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Most jobs are created by Small Businesses, not the mega corporations who have been getting most of the tax breaks and the ultra rich. Non of them will be getting the frigging 700 trillion bailout.

While large corporations usually generate more headlines and enjoy more visibility, I believe it is important for all of us to recognize and honor the vital role that American small businesses play in our national economy.

Simply put, the small business community is good for America. Small businesses – generally defined as those with fewer than 500 employees – serve as a major source of innovation and job creation, and they embody the entrepreneurial spirit that helps make our country great. They also are important service providers and customers for many of the nation’s large publicly traded companies.

Remarkably, the goods, services and technology produced by the American small business community comprise the third-largest economy in the world, after the United States and Japan. Moreover, American small businesses have helped sustain our economy when it has slowed, and are now helping us to regain our growth momentum.

Need proof? Look at the numbers: Small companies represent 99 percent of all U.S. businesses and employ more than half of the American workforce. Other statistics to note, according to the U.S. Small Business Administration, include:

Small businesses create 75 percent of the net new jobs in our economy.
Small businesses pay more than 44 percent of the nation’s private payroll.
More than 50 percent of the U.S. private gross domestic product is generated by small business.
Small businesses produce 55 percent of all innovations.
Almost 97 percent of exporters are small businesses.

Small companies are resourceful. According to the U.S. Small Business Administration, 70 percent of all U.S. businesses are started with less than $20,000 in capital. They provide services and products with fewer people and resources than big businesses, and can swiftly take products to market. And because small businesses often know their customers personally, they understand consumer attitudes and can respond quickly to market conditions.

The nation’s small business community is a vital source of competition, which forms a foundation for innovation and fuels our free enterprise system. Entrepreneurs realize that they are undertaking no small feat when they decide to launch a business enterprise. But at the end of the day, they are the first to say that the effort is worth it.

In addition to their positive economic impact, America’s small business entrepreneurs are making a difference in the lives of people and the communities in which they reside. Considering that 75 percent of all American’s first jobs are in a small company, business owners play a crucial role in bringing new members into the workforce and teaching them what it means to be a good employee and employer.

Small business owners also practice philanthropy in a big way by giving back to their communities. Along with their financial assistance, small companies are often the driving force in organizing employees to raise funds and provide volunteer support for various causes.

Because of the many ways small business owners impact the lives of those around them, they often are today’s de facto community leaders. Much of our current culture is centered on the workplace, and employees increasingly have come to look to small business owners for leadership, especially amidst the uncertainties of a post-9/11 world.

Whenever and wherever possible, let’s take time to salute and support America’s small businesses and the entrepreneurial dreamers, darers and doers who run them. It’s a win-win proposition for them, for the overall business community, and for America.

Paul J. Sarvadi is Chairman & Chief Executive Officer of Administaff (NYSE: ASF), the nation’s leading Professional Employer Organization (PEO), which serves as an offsite, full-service human resources department for thousands of small and medium-sized businesses throughout the United States. For more information, call 1-800-465-3800 or visit PEO Services and HR Outsourcing at Administaff: Human Resource Outsourcing.

 

[I Missthe North]

Who invest in the jobs for Americans: Middle class or the rich? If we tax the rich, the additional tax replaces the investment. What will happen? Increase in tax in one group will reduce jobs in another.

What we need is caps on executive pay like Obama proposes. Performance-pay has negative consequences and needs to be look heavily at.

Sorry to break it to you man, but trickle down economics have never worked. There are no statistics that support the success of that theory. It may be a good theory, but it ends there; kind of like communism. Rich people will continue to get richer and have no interest in helping society. They just want to make more money, no matter what it takes. I do agree on capping executives pay however. Performance pay has led to many of the problems we are experiencing today. It leads to cooking the books for bonuses and bogus accounting practices. Hello Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac.

 

[Care4all]

I have read that medicare and medicaid fraud account for an estimated $33 billion. Now the government programs that support illegal immigrants is in the billions. Welfare fraud = $$$. There are many fraud committed on our taxpayers' money. We reduce fraud, we increase the efficiency in our government. Therefore, taxes paid = properly well-spent. Defense fraud = $$$. Education fraud = $$$. Do we want to send government money when they are losing a percentage of it to handout scams.

Yes, some good places to start! the medicare fraud is disturbing!

I still believe Defense has alot of waste, The pentegon lost 2.3 trillion dollars, they found 1.2 trillion in poor paperwork problems but the other trillion, unaccountable.... alot of fraud by some contractors in iraq that dicked us....

Do you see the rich point a gun on the head of the middle class to buy their products? No. They provide the goods and services that the middle class demands. They need the income which are provided in the form of jobs. They want the necessities and luxuries which the rich provided in the form of goods and services.

there are 2 theories to this...1= demand pushes supply up, 2- supply pushes demand up

my career was in retail/wholesale marketing....i have witnessed both of the above....

btw, the rich didn't just supply it by twinkling their nose or by having money, the workers that buy them, made them....

Punishing one class (most notably the rich) is a political tactic. A ploy for a political party to use to gain support from the majority. I believe taxes should be the same for all groups. We shouldn't break people down into pay brackets. Everyone should have the same tax rate. But because we need this progressiveness in our tax rates, we have ways for politicians to get elected.

i disagree...

However, not everyone is good in any social class. You have frauds in the poor, middle class, rich. Of course, the fraud in the rich can have extraordinary gains in the expense of everyone else. But we shouldn't ignore the same problems that occurred down below. Look at identity theft. I doubt someone rich needs to steal someone identity to make cash.

Equal rights = Equal tax rate. Of course, you make more income, you will pay more regardless of the tax rate. But there are loopholes in the tax system that allow people with a lot of money to reduce his taxable income. Maybe circumvent this problem.

i agree fraud takes place at all levels of society....

i do not agree on your tax proposal or your sentiments regarding taxes and equal rights!

care

 

[Care4all]

Care, you make some great points and on this "bailout" well I think you know where I stand on it. My feeling is that instead of looking for a single party fault, perhaps we as the ones that are going to have to take a big bite out this "shit sandwich" should look at the culture in Washington as a whole both Republican and Democrat that passes legislation year after year and leaves the interests of those they are SUPPOSED to represent as a low priority and for years has kept the interests of PAC's, donors, and special interests well in front of the very people they represent. So you wish to make a real change in Washington, then stop voting for the same person year after year after year.

On the defense budget, yes it's large, but do you have any idea how badly mismanaged the DoD has been for years? I am not talking about the last 8. I am talking more like the last 18. Let me cite you some examples, you would think after spending untold billions upon billions of dollar the US Navy would not be flying an aircraft that that is based on a 30 year old design? This is not just the Navy look at the USAF, it's front line fighters the F-16 and the F-15 are still in service and their designs go back to the 70's. They are supposed to be replaced soon by the F-22 and the F-35 however, they have reduced the number of both those types of aircraft. The list is endless, he B52 is over 60 years old the B-1 goes back to the Carter Administration. We have spent billions on programs that have been cancelled because some Senator or Administration wanted to cut them after the DoD had already spent billions of dollar on it. One example of this, would be the Comanche Helicopter, an after literally 20 years of development the V-22 project is just now comming back online. So if this tells you anything, it's not so much the amount of money, it's the bad management of the DoD. This one will really help it sink in for you. you have no doubt heard of the F117 "Stealth" well in their infinte wisdom the DoD has decided that the F117 will be retired this year a full 15 years before it's service life is to be ended. Why? because they needed the money. Another little gem is some of this military hardware ends up in the hands of countries that are less than friendly to us. Take for example the FFG-7 Oliver Hazard Perry Class firgates, Some of them were retired very early in their careers and we are now selling them to countries like Pakistan. You remember the F14 made famous by the movie topgun. Well thats been retired as it should have been because the airframe was ending its service life. However, some of the spare parts for these Aircraft it is alleged wound up in the hands of Iran who needed them to make their F14's airworthy again. So just a little food for thought Care. It's not su much the amount its how its managed.

you know, i was so upset with the dnc shennanigans in the primary, that i had decided that if i did go to the polls to vote, i was gonna hand write in a candidate, like susan b anthony....and i was not going to vote for obama...

backflash:
and i remember really bitching at a good friend who i posted with on another message board for voting for president bush his second term, even though he was very reluctant to vote for him again because of many of his own reasons....he still did. when I questioned him as to why, he said that he really thought that Kerry would have been ALOT worse, he felt he voted for the lesser of two evils, so to say....

And for the life of me, I could not understand this at the time!!! I was certainly wearing my partisan glasses, admittingly so, but i still could not understand how someone could vote in that manner.....for the lesser of two evils....I felt and thought at the time, if I were him, I just would NOT have voted at all!

Well hells bells, here we are 4 years later and i have held my ground through most of this entire presidential campaign, I'm just not voting or I am writing someone in as my candidate....but i don't admire either of the candidates so i am not just going to cast a vote for either of them...didn't feel either of them had earned my vote....

Then comes Sarah Palin, and although i think she is quite brite, i felt very uncomfortable with her as mccain's vp pick, and yes, especially with him being an older gentleman and his bought with the skin cancer and other things...and i just honestly could not in anyway, seeing Sarah Palin being ready on day one to step in if tradgedy were to occur.

Then came some blatent lies from the McCain campaign.....my stomach is now turning....then came some policy and general "mind think" issues that stood out of mccains that i realized i really disagreed with, then came reminders of the Keating 5, and now this whole and listening to mccain pandering....

And i am now sitting here thinking, I have to go out and vote, and have to vote for Obama, because i can't have mccain win.... , just like my friend felt 4 years ago in which i chewed him out for.....

i guess, the bottom line of all of my babbling, is that i agree that we make our choices at the polls and need to vote out those we think failed us, but the picks at the congress and senate levels are not that great when they always come from the same two parties or are useally of the same "mind think".....the same playing field.

I also find it hard because i am so middle of the road, that i find ideas from both sides of the aisle apealing from time to time and no one from either of the sides of the aisle, really want to compromise....and i just hate that...

okay, enough!!! lol
==============================
well it is how it is managed, regarding defense and we have been inefficient with alot of cronyism that has wasted alot of money....i still think we don't need as much money if we were dilligent and good stewards with it....

sometimes it takes tightening the belt for the efficiencies to be sought out though...at least that's been my experience in business.

care

 

[editec]

If we BAIL OUT these banks we might as well just admit that we are peasants and the ARistocrats own us.

Seriously, if these bankers and financiers are bailed out by the US government then just accept the fact that we no longer live in anything remotely approaching a nation OF the people, FOR the people, or BY the people.

Cause what we have in that case is nothing more than an oligarchy of currency manipulating socialists maquerading as a capitalists leading a democractic republic.