Axelrod Signals Obama Will Try to Strip Abortion Language From Health Care Bill

[Polk]

What was the Stupak amendment again ? ......

A bill to ban people from buying coverage with their own money.

Stupak Amendment to HR 3962 Rev 108

Section 265 Limitation on abortion funding.

Except that the bill already didn't allow federal funding of abortions. The reason for Stupak was bitching by the right that allowing people to have abortion coverage in their policy, when purchased with their own money, would be the same as a taxpayer subsidy for abortion since the only difference between the subsidy and the individual premiums was a line in the ledger.

 

[Polk]

I think her point was that Obama lied in his primetime HC speech, not that she was for or against abortion. If he's for abortion funding in this bill, come out and say it. Don't demonize Republicans and call them liars when he actually supports it ..........

The bill didn't fund abortions to start with.

Only as much as it funded appendectomy.

Riddle me this: If you were correct, why the turmoil over the Stupak Amendment?

I am correct. Why the uproar of Stupak? Because pro-lifers saw it as a chance to pass an abortion ban.

 

[Polk]

What was the Stupak amendment again ? ......

A bill to ban people from buying coverage with their own money.

It would be helpful, and make you look smarter if you knew something about the topic on which you were posting.

Stupak Amendment:
"Reporting from Washington - In a last-minute compromise seeking to secure a majority vote for a healthcare overhaul, House Democratic leaders agreed Saturday to essentially exclude abortion coverage from their bill except for insurance policies paid exclusively with private money."
House votes for ban on abortion subsidies -- latimes.com

So, it seems you have the concept completely reversed.

Good work.

That's what the supporters of Stupak claim, but that's not what the text of the amendment actually states. If you read the actual legislative language, Stupak bans abortion coverage from being included in the policy.

 

[Polk]

A bill to ban people from buying coverage with their own money.

It would be helpful, and make you look smarter if you knew something about the topic on which you were posting.

Stupak Amendment:
"Reporting from Washington - In a last-minute compromise seeking to secure a majority vote for a healthcare overhaul, House Democratic leaders agreed Saturday to essentially exclude abortion coverage from their bill except for insurance policies paid exclusively with private money."
House votes for ban on abortion subsidies -- latimes.com

So, it seems you have the concept completely reversed.

Good work.

He's in hiding, you should know by now libtards don't admit when they're wrong ......

Or, you know, I have things to do other than sitting here debating all day.

 

[PoliticalChic]

It would be helpful, and make you look smarter if you knew something about the topic on which you were posting.

Stupak Amendment:
"Reporting from Washington - In a last-minute compromise seeking to secure a majority vote for a healthcare overhaul, House Democratic leaders agreed Saturday to essentially exclude abortion coverage from their bill except for insurance policies paid exclusively with private money."
House votes for ban on abortion subsidies -- latimes.com

So, it seems you have the concept completely reversed.

Good work.

He's in hiding, you should know by now libtards don't admit when they're wrong ......

Or, you know, I have things to do other than sitting here debating all day.

Well, I appreciate the busy life of you executives and potentates.

Which one were you again?


But having given us a moment of your valuable time, care to comment on the Stupak Amendment?

 

[keee keee]

To the drugstore to buy a box of condoms? under Obama care condoms are now classified as a medical aid and subject to high taxes!!!! This administration says one thing like "no death panels" then hides what is questioned somewhere else in this 2000 page bill. This administration is full of as much bullshit as global warming is!!!

 

[PoliticalChic]

A bill to ban people from buying coverage with their own money.

It would be helpful, and make you look smarter if you knew something about the topic on which you were posting.

Stupak Amendment:
"Reporting from Washington - In a last-minute compromise seeking to secure a majority vote for a healthcare overhaul, House Democratic leaders agreed Saturday to essentially exclude abortion coverage from their bill except for insurance policies paid exclusively with private money."
House votes for ban on abortion subsidies -- latimes.com

So, it seems you have the concept completely reversed.

Good work.

That's what the supporters of Stupak claim, but that's not what the text of the amendment actually states. If you read the actual legislative language, Stupak bans abortion coverage from being included in the policy.

Silly boy, unlike ballroom dancing, in posting it would behoove you to follow my lead: instead of stamping your feet, post links and document your points.

Otherwise,...well, you see the spanking you get.

 

[Polk]

He's in hiding, you should know by now libtards don't admit when they're wrong ......

Or, you know, I have things to do other than sitting here debating all day.

Well, I appreciate the busy life of you executives and potentates.

Which one were you again?


But having given us a moment of your valuable time, care to comment on the Stupak Amendment?

See the posts above the one you replied to. It has nothing to do with executives and potentates. I just have things to do beyond sitting here all day. Just because I don't respond to your post right that second doesn't mean I'm ignoring it or running away.

 

[Polk]

It would be helpful, and make you look smarter if you knew something about the topic on which you were posting.

Stupak Amendment:
"Reporting from Washington - In a last-minute compromise seeking to secure a majority vote for a healthcare overhaul, House Democratic leaders agreed Saturday to essentially exclude abortion coverage from their bill except for insurance policies paid exclusively with private money."
House votes for ban on abortion subsidies -- latimes.com

So, it seems you have the concept completely reversed.

Good work.

That's what the supporters of Stupak claim, but that's not what the text of the amendment actually states. If you read the actual legislative language, Stupak bans abortion coverage from being included in the policy.

Silly boy, unlike ballroom dancing, in posting it would behoove you to follow my lead: instead of stamping your feet, post links and document your points.

Otherwise,...well, you see the spanking you get.

You never sourced your claim. You've only reposted the claims of supporters and think they should be taken at face value. The reason they claim coverage can still be purchased with individual funds is because they claim insurance companies will offer abortion riders that can be added on to policies.

As for what Stupak actually does...

The main effects of the amendment would be to stop anyone receiving a federal subsidy from buying a comprehensive health insurance policy that covered elective abortions, and to bar the proposed government-run insurance plan (a.k.a. the "public option") from covering such procedures. The amendment would allow insurers to offer "supplemental" policies that covered abortions, but their customers could not use federal subsidies to buy them.

Prior to the Stupak amendment, the House bill would have required insurers to jump through some accounting hoops to segregate the money collected for coverage that was mandated by the bill -- and eligible for subsidies -- from coverage for elective abortions. But abortion opponents argued that this arrangement didn't go far enough. Money is fungible, after all, and making the mandatory coverage more affordable with subsidies would also make any additional coverage more affordable.

The same argument applies to the Stupak amendment. The Stupak language would require women seeking coverage of elective abortions through the exchange to sign up for a separate policy, potentially (but not necessarily) forcing them to spend more for the two than they would have spent on a single plan that included the coverage. Of course, their ability to afford the supplemental coverage would be greatly enhanced by the federal subsidies that shrink the cost of the main plan.

The Stupak amendment, deconstructed [UPDATED] | Opinion L.A. | Los Angeles Times

 

[PoliticalChic]

Or, you know, I have things to do other than sitting here debating all day.

Well, I appreciate the busy life of you executives and potentates.

Which one were you again?


But having given us a moment of your valuable time, care to comment on the Stupak Amendment?

See the posts above the one you replied to. It has nothing to do with executives and potentates. I just have things to do beyond sitting here all day. Just because I don't respond to your post right that second doesn't mean I'm ignoring it or running away.

Now you're upset, and I was just saying how much I miss you...

Do you mean that that Liberal Libretto rule I made up didn't apply to you???

I even added the Polk Clause: 5 g

5. If you find yourself in a debating ‘box,’ where the true answer will sink a liberal talking point, either
a. Claim that the question is ‘above my pay grade.’
b. Look astounded, and claim that the questioner is a racist, sexist or homophobe. Or fascist, or, always good, nazi.
c. Make up any term as opprobrium, as long as it sounds ominous.
d. Learn phrases such as ‘it’s time to move on,” or ‘let’s put this behind us.”
e. This was started by a [conservative, republican, earlier] administration.
f. If all else fails, shrug your shoulders and say “I’m only interested in discourse.”
g. If and when totally busted, jam hands down into side pockets, gaze up at the sky, whistle softly, and amble off into the sunset.

 

[PoliticalChic]

That's what the supporters of Stupak claim, but that's not what the text of the amendment actually states. If you read the actual legislative language, Stupak bans abortion coverage from being included in the policy.

Silly boy, unlike ballroom dancing, in posting it would behoove you to follow my lead: instead of stamping your feet, post links and document your points.

Otherwise,...well, you see the spanking you get.

You never sourced your claim. You've only reposted the claims of supporters and think they should be taken at face value. The reason they claim coverage can still be purchased with individual funds is because they claim insurance companies will offer abortion riders that can be added on to policies.

As for what Stupak actually does...

The main effects of the amendment would be to stop anyone receiving a federal subsidy from buying a comprehensive health insurance policy that covered elective abortions, and to bar the proposed government-run insurance plan (a.k.a. the "public option") from covering such procedures. The amendment would allow insurers to offer "supplemental" policies that covered abortions, but their customers could not use federal subsidies to buy them.

Prior to the Stupak amendment, the House bill would have required insurers to jump through some accounting hoops to segregate the money collected for coverage that was mandated by the bill -- and eligible for subsidies -- from coverage for elective abortions. But abortion opponents argued that this arrangement didn't go far enough. Money is fungible, after all, and making the mandatory coverage more affordable with subsidies would also make any additional coverage more affordable.

The same argument applies to the Stupak amendment. The Stupak language would require women seeking coverage of elective abortions through the exchange to sign up for a separate policy, potentially (but not necessarily) forcing them to spend more for the two than they would have spent on a single plan that included the coverage. Of course, their ability to afford the supplemental coverage would be greatly enhanced by the federal subsidies that shrink the cost of the main plan.

The Stupak amendment, deconstructed [UPDATED] | Opinion L.A. | Los Angeles Times

You are a quick learner!

But I'll see your LATimes 'opinion' and raise you the operative sentence from YOUR post:
"The same argument applies to the Stupak amendment. The Stupak language would require women seeking coverage of elective abortions through the exchange to sign up for a separate policy, potentially (but not necessarily) forcing them to spend more for the two than they would have spent on a single plan that included the coverage.


And I'll toss in an Atlantic blog:
"Stupak's amendment would prevent recipients of federal subsidies from using any of those funds to help pay the premium of an exchange plan that covers elective abortions (not in the case of rape, incest, or a threat to the life of the mother. It also specifies that subsidy recipients can purchase supplemental coverage--separate from their main plan--to cover elective abortions."

Interview: DeGette On Abortion In The Health Reform Debate - The Atlantic Politics Channel


Hey, don't worry- you're gettin' better at this.

 

[Polk]

It won't necessarily cause them to spend more because many of them will just go without the coverage.

 

[PoliticalChic]

It won't necessarily cause them to spend more because many of them will just go without the coverage.

See, language is important. After all, this isn't public school:

necessarily [ˈnɛsɪsərɪlɪ ˌnɛsɪˈsɛrɪlɪ]
adv
1. as an inevitable or natural consequence girls do not necessarily like dolls
2. as a certainty he won't necessarily come
or
1. Absolutely essential. See Synonyms at indispensable.
2. Needed to achieve a certain result or effect; requisite: the necessary tools.
3.
a. Unavoidably determined by prior conditions or circumstances; inevitable: the necessary results of overindulgence.
b. Logically inevitable.
4. Required by obligation, compulsion, or convention

Would you like to continue to show improvement, by posting a link to, say, a Rasmussen poll (or polk) that would prove, or at least indicate, that "many of them will just go without the coverage."

 

[oreo]

good for him! If a women can't afford to get an abortion from a place like planned parenthood just think about where she will go instead.

She'll probably go to the local drug store to stock up on condoms--

 

[txlonghorn]

Hey Willow,

You didn't expect any different did you?