Australian teen shoots Australian police officer...but they don't have guns, right?

[idb]

I was simply paraphrasing your own arguments.

They seem to be, in essence; no law will stop criminals getting guns so unless it stops every gun crime there's no point in having any laws, and anyway there are already lots of guns so it would be really hard to put in any sort of gun control, and anyway it doesn't work overseas because criminals can still use knives and hammers and cars...something, something, something...
Or something.

it doesn't work over seas because they still get guns....anytime they want them...and they prefer fully automatic rifles....and grenades........Norway, France, Sweden
, Denmark, Belgium.....all had shootindpga and all are experiencing uncreasing gun crime.

So, you admit that easy access to guns causes an increase in gun crime.

No...it doesn't since in the U.S. More Americans own guns and our gun murder rate has gone down again...amd 12.8 million people now carry guns for self defense and the gun murder rate went down...not up....


easy access to guns in Europe just shows that banning gums, amd strict gun control do not keep criminals, terrorists or mass shooters from getting them....


those laws,only keep law abiding people....you know....the ones who don't, don't use gums to commit crimes from getting them and defending themselves.......the criminals from Europe...get gums easily....

You're all over the place here.

You admitted that easy access to guns was a factor in gun crimes...I agree with you, that seems self-evident.

Then you made a statement that the number of gun murders in the States has gone down.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything...it's still high compared to other countries and I'm pretty sure that the general rate of homicide has declined...could there possibly be other factors at work...perhaps the fact that fewer households have guns...?

Easy access to guns in Europe?
Really?
What is 'easy access' relative to?...certainly not the USA.

Then you said that the laws prevent law-abiding people from owning guns...which is incorrect.
I think you'll find most countries allow gun ownership.

Then you made a statement that the number of gun murders in the States has gone down.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything

It means that guns aren't the problem..more people own and carry guns and the murder rate is going down....

In Australia....gun crime is going up...after the confiscation......

How could the gun crime rate be going up in Australia if they have such strict gun control laws?

 

[idb]

So, you admit that easy access to guns causes an increase in gun crime.

No...it doesn't since in the U.S. More Americans own guns and our gun murder rate has gone down again...amd 12.8 million people now carry guns for self defense and the gun murder rate went down...not up....


easy access to guns in Europe just shows that banning gums, amd strict gun control do not keep criminals, terrorists or mass shooters from getting them....


those laws,only keep law abiding people....you know....the ones who don't, don't use gums to commit crimes from getting them and defending themselves.......the criminals from Europe...get gums easily....

You're all over the place here.

You admitted that easy access to guns was a factor in gun crimes...I agree with you, that seems self-evident.

Then you made a statement that the number of gun murders in the States has gone down.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything...it's still high compared to other countries and I'm pretty sure that the general rate of homicide has declined...could there possibly be other factors at work...perhaps the fact that fewer households have guns...?

Easy access to guns in Europe?
Really?
What is 'easy access' relative to?...certainly not the USA.

Then you said that the laws prevent law-abiding people from owning guns...which is incorrect.
I think you'll find most countries allow gun ownership.

So, you admit that easy access to guns causes an increase in gun crime.

No...it doesn't since in the U.S. More Americans own guns and our gun murder rate has gone down again...amd 12.8 million people now carry guns for self defense and the gun murder rate went down...not up....


easy access to guns in Europe just shows that banning gums, amd strict gun control do not keep criminals, terrorists or mass shooters from getting them....


those laws,only keep law abiding people....you know....the ones who don't, don't use gums to commit crimes from getting them and defending themselves.......the criminals from Europe...get gums easily....

You're all over the place here.

You admitted that easy access to guns was a factor in gun crimes...I agree with you, that seems self-evident.

Then you made a statement that the number of gun murders in the States has gone down.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything...it's still high compared to other countries and I'm pretty sure that the general rate of homicide has declined...could there possibly be other factors at work...perhaps the fact that fewer households have guns...?

Easy access to guns in Europe?
Really?
What is 'easy access' relative to?...certainly not the USA.

Then you said that the laws prevent law-abiding people from owning guns...which is incorrect.
I think you'll find most countries allow gun ownership.

No...I never said easy access to guns was a factor in gun crime...I said criminal culture was...you guys keep saying easy access to guns leads to more crime and you are wrong...I have said over and over, European criminals have easy access to guns...they don't use them as much...check my posts....you guys claim European gun control keeps guns out of the hands of criminals I have pointed out you are wrong, they can get guns as easily as American criminals can....they just don't use them as much....but I also said that is changing. Their criminal culture is changing, not their access to guns.

More Americans have guns not less....the General Social Survey, the survey the anti gunners use to say fewer Americans have guns is not accurate...it is a phone survey...strangers ask people over land lines if they have guns in their home...and in this environment they think that gun owners will tell strangers on the phone that they own guns......also, the guy in charge is an anit gunner...who wants to use the survey to help convince politicans to pass more gun control.

I have listed articles that show that gettin a gun as a law abiding citizen is incredibly difficult...but criminals in Europe get guns easily.....

But you're simply wrong.
A criminal can't get a gun as easily in most European countries as they can in the US.
It doesn't mean that they can't get them...but it takes more work.

I'm sure you can up with all sorts of spurious reasons to discredit any survey result that you don't want to be true.

I thought you said that the European laws prevented law-abiding citizens from getting guns...now you say that they make it difficult for them to get guns...which is it?

You are wrong...

Getting a gun legally in Europe may be hard, but terrorists have little trouble


In contrast with the free-firing United States, Europe is generally seen as a haven from serious gun violence. Here in Denmark, handguns and semiautomatic rifles are all but banned. Hunting rifles are legally available only to those with squeaky-clean backgrounds who have passed a rigorous exam covering everything from gun safety to the mating habits of Denmark’s wildlife.

“There’s a book about 1,000 pages thick,” said Tonni Rigby, one of only two licensed firearms dealers in Copenhagen. “You have to know all of it.”


But if you want an illicit assault rifle, such as the one used by a 22-year-old to rake a Copenhagen cafe with 28 bullets on Saturday, all it takes are a few connections and some cash.

“It’s very easy to get such a weapon,” said Hans Jorgen Bonnichsen, a former operations director for the Danish security service PET. “It’s not only a problem for Denmark. It’s a problem for all of Europe.”

So, now your argument is that easy access to guns increases gun crimes?
It's really hard to keep up with you.

 

[2aguy]

it doesn't work over seas because they still get guns....anytime they want them...and they prefer fully automatic rifles....and grenades........Norway, France, Sweden
, Denmark, Belgium.....all had shootindpga and all are experiencing uncreasing gun crime.

So, you admit that easy access to guns causes an increase in gun crime.

No...it doesn't since in the U.S. More Americans own guns and our gun murder rate has gone down again...amd 12.8 million people now carry guns for self defense and the gun murder rate went down...not up....


easy access to guns in Europe just shows that banning gums, amd strict gun control do not keep criminals, terrorists or mass shooters from getting them....


those laws,only keep law abiding people....you know....the ones who don't, don't use gums to commit crimes from getting them and defending themselves.......the criminals from Europe...get gums easily....

You're all over the place here.

You admitted that easy access to guns was a factor in gun crimes...I agree with you, that seems self-evident.

Then you made a statement that the number of gun murders in the States has gone down.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything...it's still high compared to other countries and I'm pretty sure that the general rate of homicide has declined...could there possibly be other factors at work...perhaps the fact that fewer households have guns...?

Easy access to guns in Europe?
Really?
What is 'easy access' relative to?...certainly not the USA.

Then you said that the laws prevent law-abiding people from owning guns...which is incorrect.
I think you'll find most countries allow gun ownership.

Then you made a statement that the number of gun murders in the States has gone down.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything

It means that guns aren't the problem..more people own and carry guns and the murder rate is going down....

In Australia....gun crime is going up...after the confiscation......

How could the gun crime rate be going up in Australia if they have such strict gun control laws?

This is what you gun control types don't understand…..criminals and mass shooters ignore the law. The people who don't commit crimes with guns obey the laws. That is why gun control only works if the people want to obey the laws.

How did the 15 year old immigrant get the gun in Australia to shoot the police officer if they have strict gun control laws?

How did the immigrant get the gun that he used to take hostages in the coffee shop in Australia if they have strict gun control laws?

Why are they finding guns daily in the Red Zones in Australia if they have strict gun control laws?

How did 3 terrorists, 2 on a government watch list, and one a convicted felon….in France, a country with strict gun control laws…and an absolute ban on fully automatic rifles, hand grenades, rocket propelled grenades and pistols…..get those guns in a country with strict gun control?

Dittos for the shooters in Marseilles, France with the fully automatic rifles, again.

Dittos for the shooters in France who shot up the jewish school.

Dittos for the shooters in Belgium, Sweden, Denmark and Norway…all countries with strict gun control laws.

Puerto rico is the gun murder capitol of the world…it has the strictest gun control laws in the United States and it's protectorates, it is an island nation and you can't just drive across a border to get guns……yet it has the highest gun murder rate and has strict gun control laws.

And America…our gun murder rate is going down, not up…as more Americans own and actually carry guns for protection. And the gun crime in America…is isolated mainly in large cities with the strictest gun control laws in the Country…chicago, Baltimore, D.C., L.A., and on and on….

Gun control laws only work on people who will obey the laws as good citizens. Gun control laws do not stop criminals or mass shooters.

 

[2aguy]

No...it doesn't since in the U.S. More Americans own guns and our gun murder rate has gone down again...amd 12.8 million people now carry guns for self defense and the gun murder rate went down...not up....


easy access to guns in Europe just shows that banning gums, amd strict gun control do not keep criminals, terrorists or mass shooters from getting them....


those laws,only keep law abiding people....you know....the ones who don't, don't use gums to commit crimes from getting them and defending themselves.......the criminals from Europe...get gums easily....

You're all over the place here.

You admitted that easy access to guns was a factor in gun crimes...I agree with you, that seems self-evident.

Then you made a statement that the number of gun murders in the States has gone down.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything...it's still high compared to other countries and I'm pretty sure that the general rate of homicide has declined...could there possibly be other factors at work...perhaps the fact that fewer households have guns...?

Easy access to guns in Europe?
Really?
What is 'easy access' relative to?...certainly not the USA.

Then you said that the laws prevent law-abiding people from owning guns...which is incorrect.
I think you'll find most countries allow gun ownership.

No...it doesn't since in the U.S. More Americans own guns and our gun murder rate has gone down again...amd 12.8 million people now carry guns for self defense and the gun murder rate went down...not up....


easy access to guns in Europe just shows that banning gums, amd strict gun control do not keep criminals, terrorists or mass shooters from getting them....


those laws,only keep law abiding people....you know....the ones who don't, don't use gums to commit crimes from getting them and defending themselves.......the criminals from Europe...get gums easily....

You're all over the place here.

You admitted that easy access to guns was a factor in gun crimes...I agree with you, that seems self-evident.

Then you made a statement that the number of gun murders in the States has gone down.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything...it's still high compared to other countries and I'm pretty sure that the general rate of homicide has declined...could there possibly be other factors at work...perhaps the fact that fewer households have guns...?

Easy access to guns in Europe?
Really?
What is 'easy access' relative to?...certainly not the USA.

Then you said that the laws prevent law-abiding people from owning guns...which is incorrect.
I think you'll find most countries allow gun ownership.

No...I never said easy access to guns was a factor in gun crime...I said criminal culture was...you guys keep saying easy access to guns leads to more crime and you are wrong...I have said over and over, European criminals have easy access to guns...they don't use them as much...check my posts....you guys claim European gun control keeps guns out of the hands of criminals I have pointed out you are wrong, they can get guns as easily as American criminals can....they just don't use them as much....but I also said that is changing. Their criminal culture is changing, not their access to guns.

More Americans have guns not less....the General Social Survey, the survey the anti gunners use to say fewer Americans have guns is not accurate...it is a phone survey...strangers ask people over land lines if they have guns in their home...and in this environment they think that gun owners will tell strangers on the phone that they own guns......also, the guy in charge is an anit gunner...who wants to use the survey to help convince politicans to pass more gun control.

I have listed articles that show that gettin a gun as a law abiding citizen is incredibly difficult...but criminals in Europe get guns easily.....

But you're simply wrong.
A criminal can't get a gun as easily in most European countries as they can in the US.
It doesn't mean that they can't get them...but it takes more work.

I'm sure you can up with all sorts of spurious reasons to discredit any survey result that you don't want to be true.

I thought you said that the European laws prevented law-abiding citizens from getting guns...now you say that they make it difficult for them to get guns...which is it?

You are wrong...

Getting a gun legally in Europe may be hard, but terrorists have little trouble


In contrast with the free-firing United States, Europe is generally seen as a haven from serious gun violence. Here in Denmark, handguns and semiautomatic rifles are all but banned. Hunting rifles are legally available only to those with squeaky-clean backgrounds who have passed a rigorous exam covering everything from gun safety to the mating habits of Denmark’s wildlife.

“There’s a book about 1,000 pages thick,” said Tonni Rigby, one of only two licensed firearms dealers in Copenhagen. “You have to know all of it.”


But if you want an illicit assault rifle, such as the one used by a 22-year-old to rake a Copenhagen cafe with 28 bullets on Saturday, all it takes are a few connections and some cash.

“It’s very easy to get such a weapon,” said Hans Jorgen Bonnichsen, a former operations director for the Danish security service PET. “It’s not only a problem for Denmark. It’s a problem for all of Europe.”

So, now your argument is that easy access to guns increases gun crimes?
It's really hard to keep up with you.

Nope, that has never been my argument and it never will be…re read my posts. That above quote points out that gun criminals in Europe have easier access to guns than law abiding citizens.

However, criminals in Europe tend to use their guns less than American criminals….it is a cultural difference that is not influenced by access to guns.

 

[idb]

So, you admit that easy access to guns causes an increase in gun crime.

No...it doesn't since in the U.S. More Americans own guns and our gun murder rate has gone down again...amd 12.8 million people now carry guns for self defense and the gun murder rate went down...not up....


easy access to guns in Europe just shows that banning gums, amd strict gun control do not keep criminals, terrorists or mass shooters from getting them....


those laws,only keep law abiding people....you know....the ones who don't, don't use gums to commit crimes from getting them and defending themselves.......the criminals from Europe...get gums easily....

You're all over the place here.

You admitted that easy access to guns was a factor in gun crimes...I agree with you, that seems self-evident.

Then you made a statement that the number of gun murders in the States has gone down.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything...it's still high compared to other countries and I'm pretty sure that the general rate of homicide has declined...could there possibly be other factors at work...perhaps the fact that fewer households have guns...?

Easy access to guns in Europe?
Really?
What is 'easy access' relative to?...certainly not the USA.

Then you said that the laws prevent law-abiding people from owning guns...which is incorrect.
I think you'll find most countries allow gun ownership.

Then you made a statement that the number of gun murders in the States has gone down.
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything

It means that guns aren't the problem..more people own and carry guns and the murder rate is going down....

In Australia....gun crime is going up...after the confiscation......

How could the gun crime rate be going up in Australia if they have such strict gun control laws?

This is what you gun control types don't understand…..criminals and mass shooters ignore the law. The people who don't commit crimes with guns obey the laws. That is why gun control only works if the people want to obey the laws.

How did the 15 year old immigrant get the gun in Australia to shoot the police officer if they have strict gun control laws?

How did the immigrant get the gun that he used to take hostages in the coffee shop in Australia if they have strict gun control laws?

Why are they finding guns daily in the Red Zones in Australia if they have strict gun control laws?

How did 3 terrorists, 2 on a government watch list, and one a convicted felon….in France, a country with strict gun control laws…and an absolute ban on fully automatic rifles, hand grenades, rocket propelled grenades and pistols…..get those guns in a country with strict gun control?

Dittos for the shooters in Marseilles, France with the fully automatic rifles, again.

Dittos for the shooters in France who shot up the jewish school.

Dittos for the shooters in Belgium, Sweden, Denmark and Norway…all countries with strict gun control laws.

Puerto rico is the gun murder capitol of the world…it has the strictest gun control laws in the United States and it's protectorates, it is an island nation and you can't just drive across a border to get guns……yet it has the highest gun murder rate and has strict gun control laws.

And America…our gun murder rate is going down, not up…as more Americans own and actually carry guns for protection. And the gun crime in America…is isolated mainly in large cities with the strictest gun control laws in the Country…chicago, Baltimore, D.C., L.A., and on and on….

Gun control laws only work on people who will obey the laws as good citizens. Gun control laws do not stop criminals or mass shooters.

So, all those guns that are so easily available in those countries are causing an increase in gun crimes?
More guns means more gun crime?
Hmmmm...I think you might have a point there.

 

[rightwinger]

Australia murder rate falls to record low - BBC News