Attention Atheists: How Was The Earth Created?

[eagleseven]

Humans understand cause and effect. We not only observe it we understand the relationship and can manipulate various causes (physical not political) to achieve various effects. So, perhaps we can't think of an effect without cause. But - and here I go with some wacky thinking - what if outside of our understanding there can be effect - in this case the existence of the universe - without cause?

Indeed.

 

[edthecynic]

Where did the "matter of nebula" come from and how was it formed? How did it become a "center of nuclear fusion" as you say?

At least you're trying, unlike some people in this thread.

Matter IS Energy and the First Law of Thermodynamics, proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule, says Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. So Energy didn't "come from," it IS.

The FLoT, aka the Law of Conservation on Energy, is elementary school science, I surprised you know nothing about it!

Right there ... that actually supports the idea that some god (or gods) had to have started it all, no matter how it was accomplished.

Explain!

The FLoT says that before any God or Gods ever existed, Energy already existed and long after any God or Gods cease to exist, Energy will still exist.

 

[KittenKoder]

Matter IS Energy and the First Law of Thermodynamics, proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule, says Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. So Energy didn't "come from," it IS.

The FLoT, aka the Law of Conservation on Energy, is elementary school science, I surprised you know nothing about it!

Right there ... that actually supports the idea that some god (or gods) had to have started it all, no matter how it was accomplished.

There is no need for an intelligent god for something to eternally exist.

Why do humans have a fixation on a "God in our image?" Is it a form of narcissism? The Amazon Forest has grown for thousands of years without any intelligent Park Rangers carefully watching it. Why must the Universe have a "Park Ranger?"

Why do you assume that all religious deities are the same?

 

[KittenKoder]

Matter IS Energy and the First Law of Thermodynamics, proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule, says Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. So Energy didn't "come from," it IS.

The FLoT, aka the Law of Conservation on Energy, is elementary school science, I surprised you know nothing about it!

Right there ... that actually supports the idea that some god (or gods) had to have started it all, no matter how it was accomplished.

Explain!

The FLoT says that before any God or Gods ever existed, Energy already existed and long after any God or Gods cease to exist, Energy will still exist.

Intelligence is an energy that is immeasurable, therefore it is easy for it to exist without detection. Supporting an idea doesn't mean proof as some have assumed, though I don't think you made that assumption so I will forgo that part of the explanation. What is the mass was the housing for said intelligence, and the intelligence chose to form solidarity than "spread" itself out, thus creating life. Or perhaps that intelligence grew bored of just existing so set the mass into motion, thus resulting in the formation of what we see now? Another possibility is that the intelligence is part of another existence and we just an experiment. So many possibilities. As I said, science gives us the how, but does not answer the critical why. Why did it all start moving in the right way to form solids and eventually life?

 

[manu1959]

You make a valid point, Mad Scientist, however, its not that valid. Here's why: evidence.

Although there is not enough evidence to prove that God didn't create the Earth as Genesis fails to describe, in a miraculous way. There is a lot of evidence that supports the current theories. There is NO evidence that supports God even exists.

evidence of big bang - Google Search

evidence of evolution - Google Search

planetary nebula - Google Search

evidence of origin of earth - Google Search

I don't hold any hope that you'll follow these links and read the information contained on the websites you would find there, but, were you to let go the dogma and take the information presented skeptically and simultaneously crediting the methods and motives of those who wish to better understand the physical universe, you could learn a thing or 5,000. But, I know, you find the Bible much more comfortable.

unless of course god caused the big bang....

 

[Dr Grump]

[
What's the difference between Scientific Theory and Religious Theory? Seems to me that both can't be proven.

no, no, no, no, no....I have to call BS on this one. I can name a tonne of scientific theories that have proven to be fact. Can you name one religious theory that has? Take your time.....

 

[Dr Grump]

Right there ... that actually supports the idea that some god (or gods) had to have started it all, no matter how it was accomplished.

So you would believe that some Superbeing just waved a magic wand to make it happen?

Hmmmm...I find it strange that MS has started a thread that wants every little thing explained - ie, if a scientific-minded person believes that gases helped form stars, then he wants to know where the gases came from and how they drifted together. However, when a religious person is asked "where did God come from", they usually answer "He was always there"...Funny how a scientist can actually physically demonstrate how certain things happen (take gravity for instance, or even antibiotics), whereas a religious person can't, yet somehow the scientist is wrong. IOW, a scientist can prove something til the cows come home, a religious person jsut believes in faith, yet the scientist has to 'prove' his POV. Here's a challenge to the religious - give definitive proof that a God exists. Physical, undeniable proof...take your time...

 

[L.K.Eder]

mad scientists created the universe. i read it somewhere.

 

[KittenKoder]

Right there ... that actually supports the idea that some god (or gods) had to have started it all, no matter how it was accomplished.

So you would believe that some Superbeing just waved a magic wand to make it happen?

Hmmmm...I find it strange that MS has started a thread that wants every little thing explained - ie, if a scientific-minded person believes that gases helped form stars, then he wants to know where the gases came from and how they drifted together. However, when a religious person is asked "where did God come from", they usually answer "He was always there"...Funny how a scientist can actually physically demonstrate how certain things happen (take gravity for instance, or even antibiotics), whereas a religious person can't, yet somehow the scientist is wrong. IOW, a scientist can prove something til the cows come home, a religious person jsut believes in faith, yet the scientist has to 'prove' his POV. Here's a challenge to the religious - give definitive proof that a God exists. Physical, undeniable proof...take your time...

This is a perfect example of why atheists are unable to move forward well without us sages. Science has found out that there are many things science cannot figure out, quarks are the perfect example, what makes us "alive" behind living is another, art, creativity of any sort, and most important "sum ergo sum". No one said it had to be a "magic wand" to make it a god, hint, look up the scientific definition of what a god is.

 

[KittenKoder]

* Main Entry: 'god'
* Pronunciation: \ˈgäd also ˈgȯd\
* Function: noun
* Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German got god
* Date: before 12th century

1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
4 : a powerful ruler

 

[L.K.Eder]

Right there ... that actually supports the idea that some god (or gods) had to have started it all, no matter how it was accomplished.

So you would believe that some Superbeing just waved a magic wand to make it happen?

Hmmmm...I find it strange that MS has started a thread that wants every little thing explained - ie, if a scientific-minded person believes that gases helped form stars, then he wants to know where the gases came from and how they drifted together. However, when a religious person is asked "where did God come from", they usually answer "He was always there"...Funny how a scientist can actually physically demonstrate how certain things happen (take gravity for instance, or even antibiotics), whereas a religious person can't, yet somehow the scientist is wrong. IOW, a scientist can prove something til the cows come home, a religious person jsut believes in faith, yet the scientist has to 'prove' his POV. Here's a challenge to the religious - give definitive proof that a God exists. Physical, undeniable proof...take your time...

This is a perfect example of why atheists are unable to move forward well without us sages. Science has found out that there are many things science cannot figure out, quarks are the perfect example, what makes us "alive" behind living is another, art, creativity of any sort, and most important "sum ergo sum". No one said it had to be a "magic wand" to make it a god, hint, look up the scientific definition of what a god is.

"scientific definition of god"

oh lard

 

[Wry Catcher]

We see quite a few threads from the Religion bashers about how ridiculous it is to believe that God created the Universe. "How can you believe a magical Man in the Sky?" they all ask.

OK then. Here's your chance to prove to me that God didn't create the Universe. Please post any argument you may have or like that proves your ideas.

We will, for the sake of argument in this tread only, say that the Bible doesn't exist. You may not use any reference to the Holy Book or any other Religious book for that matter because you believe it to be false, written by deluded individuals at best right?

I would prefer only Atheists chime in but you wishy-washy "Spiritualists" may also posit your "feelings" about the matter if you wish.

As an agnostic I don't know if "God" created the Universe. I'm sure of one thing though, more murders and henious acts have been done in the name of "God" then for any other reason.

 

[KittenKoder]

We see quite a few threads from the Religion bashers about how ridiculous it is to believe that God created the Universe. "How can you believe a magical Man in the Sky?" they all ask.

OK then. Here's your chance to prove to me that God didn't create the Universe. Please post any argument you may have or like that proves your ideas.

We will, for the sake of argument in this tread only, say that the Bible doesn't exist. You may not use any reference to the Holy Book or any other Religious book for that matter because you believe it to be false, written by deluded individuals at best right?

I would prefer only Atheists chime in but you wishy-washy "Spiritualists" may also posit your "feelings" about the matter if you wish.

As an agnostic I don't know if "God" created the Universe. I'm sure of one thing though, more murders and henious acts have been done in the name of "God" then for any other reason.

Which god?

 

[Dr Grump]

This is a perfect example of why atheists are unable to move forward well without us sages. Science has found out that there are many things science cannot figure out, quarks are the perfect example, what makes us "alive" behind living is another, art, creativity of any sort, and most important "sum ergo sum". No one said it had to be a "magic wand" to make it a god, hint, look up the scientific definition of what a god is.

Who says we are not able to move forward? In fact, we do. It is usually the religious who hate change and want to retain the status quo.

There is no scientific definition of a God. If there is, can you quote the link and which scientists defined the word? And no, Dictionary.com is not a scientist.

Of course there are many things science cannot figure out....yet. That has been the way for centuries, yet over time, they keep on figuring things out. Again, my challenge to you and any other religious person - empirical and actual proof of a God please. Take your time...

 

[KittenKoder]

This is a perfect example of why atheists are unable to move forward well without us sages. Science has found out that there are many things science cannot figure out, quarks are the perfect example, what makes us "alive" behind living is another, art, creativity of any sort, and most important "sum ergo sum". No one said it had to be a "magic wand" to make it a god, hint, look up the scientific definition of what a god is.

Who says we are not able to move forward? In fact, we do. It is usually the religious who hate change and want to retain the status quo.

There is no scientific definition of a God. If there is, can you quote the link and which scientists defined the word? And no, Dictionary.com is not a scientist.

Of course there are many things science cannot figure out....yet. That has been the way for centuries, yet over time, they keep on figuring things out. Again, my challenge to you and any other religious person - empirical and actual proof of a God please. Take your time...

Do you think there is only one religion? My religion actually sparked the greatest advances in mathematics and medicine, Imhotep was Ancient Egyptian, the religion of Rya. Without Imhotep medicine would be really far behind even today, and mathematics would be as well. The religion not only accepts scientific advances but also encourages finding answers to questions, but without imagination, without creativity, without the abstract dreams of people (some of which are sparked by religious people) you would never move forward. Some atheists don't believe such things are important, so without the counterparts in religion, it would be a slow progression. I know of at least three other religions that love science as much as mine.

 

[L.K.Eder]

This is a perfect example of why atheists are unable to move forward well without us sages. Science has found out that there are many things science cannot figure out, quarks are the perfect example, what makes us "alive" behind living is another, art, creativity of any sort, and most important "sum ergo sum". No one said it had to be a "magic wand" to make it a god, hint, look up the scientific definition of what a god is.

Who says we are not able to move forward? In fact, we do. It is usually the religious who hate change and want to retain the status quo.

There is no scientific definition of a God. If there is, can you quote the link and which scientists defined the word? And no, Dictionary.com is not a scientist.

Of course there are many things science cannot figure out....yet. That has been the way for centuries, yet over time, they keep on figuring things out. Again, my challenge to you and any other religious person - empirical and actual proof of a God please. Take your time...

if there is a scientific definition of god i want to see that, too

 

[KittenKoder]

Reposting for those who missed it, or were too damned lazy to read it.
* Main Entry: 'god'
* Pronunciation: \ˈgäd also ˈgȯd\
* Function: noun
* Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German got god
* Date: before 12th century

1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
4 : a powerful ruler

 

[Dr Grump]

Reposting for those who missed it, or were too damned lazy to read it.
* Main Entry: 'god'
* Pronunciation: \ˈgäd also ˈgȯd\
* Function: noun
* Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German got god
* Date: before 12th century

1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
4 : a powerful ruler

1) How is that a 'scientific' definition?
2) Source please..

Nothing to do with laziness, more to do with 'please explain'..

As for your talk on religions helping out scientifically, I do not dispute that has not happened. I'm talking more in a mainstream instance...

 

[Mad Scientist]

What is The Prime Motivator?
Energy

Great. Now tell me how it was formed and where it came from.

Prove how the Universe Started without using God or the Bible as a reference.

Simple in structure but impossible in actuality. None of us can prove it, all we can do is hypothesise.[/quote]
There's your winner right there!

There are plenty of academic videos explaining the basics, like this one:

"Quarks have never been isolated. No one has ever seen one either." So the only reason you "believe they exist" is because of particle accelerators made by humans? Is this how matter is produced in the entire Universe or just another "theory"? Did the creator of the universe check your homework?

"God," if you would like to use that word, is genderless, has no intelligence, and no will. My use of the word is simply a metaphor, and is completely unrelated to the God of Abraham or Krishna.
Do you believe in a God that has no intelligence or will? A God that can do nothing but spontaneously and erratically form matter and energy? A God that will never hear or answer your prayers, and a God who offers no salvation or blessings?

Wow! You must have met God if you know He has no intelligence and no will. Your I.Q. must be infinity! Could you hook me up sometime?
Or did you just minimize Him in your mind so that you don't have to acknowledge Him or play by His rules?
Fail for using God in your explanation. Go back and re-read the rules at the start of this thread. You do have potential though EagleSeven.

Matter IS Energy and the First Law of Thermodynamics, proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule, says Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. So Energy didn't "come from," it IS. The FLoT, aka the Law of Conservation on Energy, is elementary school science, I'm surprised you know nothing about it!

"It just IS!" I didn't accept that explanation from my kids and I won't accept it from you either.
Scientists have always been discovering new things that disprove the current theories of the time and will continue to do so as long as we exist I suppose. Better yet, that is my theory!
Matter, The Universe, Life itself had a beginning. I'll ask you again:
"What was the 'Prime Motivator' for our Universe and life as we know it now?"

MadScientist here is having a hard time accepting the eternal existence of something not in the Bible...

Not true. I know that here is much too much out there to learn in the space of one lifetime. The Bible is the word of God but it cannot contain all the knowledge of the universe. Our brains are simply too small to even conceive of it anyway.

But - and here I go with some wacky thinking - what if outside of our understanding there can be effect - in this case the existence of the universe - without cause?

Sorta like: "If a universe was created and no one was around to witness it, was it really created?"
Interesting.

Intelligence is an energy that is immeasurable, therefore it is easy for it to exist without detection. Supporting an idea doesn't mean proof as some have assumed, though I don't think you made that assumption so I will forgo that part of the explanation. What is the mass was the housing for said intelligence, and the intelligence chose to form solidarity than "spread" itself out, thus creating life. Or perhaps that intelligence grew bored of just existing so set the mass into motion, thus resulting in the formation of what we see now? Another possibility is that the intelligence is part of another existence and we just an experiment. So many possibilities. As I said, science gives us the how, but does not answer the critical why. Why did it all start moving in the right way to form solids and eventually life?

How profound! Well said Kitten Koder!

 

[L.K.Eder]

Reposting for those who missed it, or were too damned lazy to read it.
* Main Entry: 'god'
* Pronunciation: \ˈgäd also ˈgȯd\
* Function: noun
* Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German got god
* Date: before 12th century

1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
4 : a powerful ruler

that is a dictionary entry which explains the meaning of the word "god".

far from a scientific definition, which btw is not possible.