Atheist Summer Camp

[chanel]

No it is not ok for Christians, or Jews, or Hindus, or blacks, or whites, or ..... to make fun of other children. Or atheists.

And I'm not here to argue semantics over whether a belief is a religion or not. But please don't call me stupid.

"And I'm not here to argue semantics over whether a belief is a religion or not"

and yet in your first post you DECLARED IT A RELIGION.

so
what you want it is to say something WRONG (and stupid) and NOT to be questioned?


if you DECLARE atheism a religion then those of us who are NOT stupid have a right to argue with you

unless you are so stupid that you think only YOU have free speech?

No I don't think I'm the only person with free speech. (insert bunny pancake pic here)

I called it a religion. The Supreme Court called it a religion. You do not. That does not make you stupid. It just makes you closed minded, bigoted, childish and prone to name calling of those you disagree with.

Hmmmm. Where did you go to summer camp?

 

[manifold]

I don't see this as particularly bigoted on the part of the camp. But it is most certainly a form of indoctrination and NOT at all open-minded as they suggest. These kids are being taught to close their minds to the possible existence of God lest they suffer the ridicule of their peers. From that standpoint they are doing the same thing that religions do.

 

[kwc57]

You are wrong about the Boy Scouts. I was a cub scout and a boy scout and have seen the indoctrination towards accepting christianity and rejecting any other concept. The camping and skills were interesting but the preaching was stifling. I already lived in wilderness camping, hunting and fishing on my own so I quit just before the transition to Eagle Scout where the indoctrination was even more intense. Scouting was more about accepting authority than learning personal skills and values.

As an Assistant Scoutmaster, I have to call BS on some of what you said. The BSA at the national level has their joining requirements for youth and adults that you can consider the minimum joining requirements. Local councils grant a charter to a chartering organization which could be anything from a school to a church to the local VFW or Masonic Lodge, etc. These chartering organizations can have additional joining requirements. For instance, a Catholic church can charter a Pack or Troop and restrict membership to their church members or to only Catholics. A school can limit their membership to only their students. A charter grants an organization to use the scouting program as part of their overall outreach in the community. So, the church that charters a Scout Troop can say that the Troop must have a worship service on the Sunday morning of a campout and that it must be a Christian evangelical service. Most troops I know are chartered by churches, but they are open troops and the church does not restrict membership or dictate program. A few do.

Any youth or their parent can vote with their feet and shop the market. There are 11 districts in my council and 25 troops in my district which covers only a portion of Oklahoma City. If you don't like the way one troop operates in my district, you have 24 others to visit and join. In the metro area, there are probably at least another 50.

Religious indoctrination in scouting is determined by the chartering organization pure and simple and most don't go in that direction. My troop has been chartered by a United Methodist church for the last 45 years. We have white, black, asian and hispanic kids. Most are evangelical Christians, but we do have Catholics, a Jew and a Muslim. Our "services" when wee have them are about 5 minutes in length and totally non-sectarian. They are put together by the boys and not adults. When we say grace, we simply say amen at the end instead of "in Jesus name".

Scouting has nothing to do with accepting authority. The mission of the BSA is, "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." The vision of the BSA is, "The Boy Scouts of America will prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law." This is done using the patrol method in the outdoors. We teach boys how to become independent and leaders, not to "accept authority".

And you don't transition to Eagle. You earn it. Only about 5% of Scouts ever attain the Eagle rank.

Could an atheist group charter a scout group?

If it is a religion, as Chanel claims, I would think yes. But I imagine the answer is no.

If they are a religion that can answer in the affirmative to this, then yes. If not, no.

BSA Declaration of Religious Principle
Excerpted from the Adult Registration Application B.S.A. No. 28-501.

The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.

Only persons willing to subscribe to these precepts from the Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of leadership.

 

[uscitizen]

I was never allowed to go to scouts because they were part of that methodist church that allowed dancing, movies and drinking!

This is the truth.

In my evangelical parents opinion the scouts were going to hell.

Btw I was raised in the same denomination as Palin's church.

I was a little soldier for christ.
They would line us up and have us march around singing "Onward Christian Soldiers".
Carrying little wooden guns and swords.

 

[Ravi]

As an Assistant Scoutmaster, I have to call BS on some of what you said. The BSA at the national level has their joining requirements for youth and adults that you can consider the minimum joining requirements. Local councils grant a charter to a chartering organization which could be anything from a school to a church to the local VFW or Masonic Lodge, etc. These chartering organizations can have additional joining requirements. For instance, a Catholic church can charter a Pack or Troop and restrict membership to their church members or to only Catholics. A school can limit their membership to only their students. A charter grants an organization to use the scouting program as part of their overall outreach in the community. So, the church that charters a Scout Troop can say that the Troop must have a worship service on the Sunday morning of a campout and that it must be a Christian evangelical service. Most troops I know are chartered by churches, but they are open troops and the church does not restrict membership or dictate program. A few do.

Any youth or their parent can vote with their feet and shop the market. There are 11 districts in my council and 25 troops in my district which covers only a portion of Oklahoma City. If you don't like the way one troop operates in my district, you have 24 others to visit and join. In the metro area, there are probably at least another 50.

Religious indoctrination in scouting is determined by the chartering organization pure and simple and most don't go in that direction. My troop has been chartered by a United Methodist church for the last 45 years. We have white, black, asian and hispanic kids. Most are evangelical Christians, but we do have Catholics, a Jew and a Muslim. Our "services" when wee have them are about 5 minutes in length and totally non-sectarian. They are put together by the boys and not adults. When we say grace, we simply say amen at the end instead of "in Jesus name".

Scouting has nothing to do with accepting authority. The mission of the BSA is, "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." The vision of the BSA is, "The Boy Scouts of America will prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law." This is done using the patrol method in the outdoors. We teach boys how to become independent and leaders, not to "accept authority".

And you don't transition to Eagle. You earn it. Only about 5% of Scouts ever attain the Eagle rank.

Could an atheist group charter a scout group?

If it is a religion, as Chanel claims, I would think yes. But I imagine the answer is no.

If they are a religion that can answer in the affirmative to this, then yes. If not, no.

BSA Declaration of Religious Principle
Excerpted from the Adult Registration Application B.S.A. No. 28-501.

The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.

Only persons willing to subscribe to these precepts from the Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of leadership.

So the answer is no, atheists cannot charter a scout group.

 

[geauxtohell]

Can someone bring me up to speed about just what the outrage is here?

 

[uscitizen]

Lemme tell you about my church camp experience.

On the final night we had a Kangaroo court.

I was made to watch light bulbs being broken and put in a bowl and battery acid poured on the bits. The blindfolded and force fed fed cornchips with vinegar on them saying it was the glass and battery acid.


similar things happened to other kids too.
A fine example of Christians.

And this is 100% truth.

 

[jswiftproposal]

Boy Scouts don't allow atheists.

They don't allow ATHEIST ADULTS. Why is that so hard to get through your thick head? It is against the Scout Law. But so is MAKING FUN of other children.

I have no problem with atheists who teach their children morals. But as I have seen from many on this board, they don't even know what morality is.

They don't allow atheist children.

Boy Scouts of America believes that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. Accordingly, youth members and adult volunteer leaders of Boy Scouts of America obligate themselves to do their duty to God and be reverent as embodied in the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. Leaders also must subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle. Because of its views concerning the duty to God, Boy Scouts of America believes that an atheist or agnostic is not an appropriate role model of the Scout Oath and Law for adolescent boys. Because of Scouting’s methods and beliefs, Scouting does not accept atheists and agnostics as members or adult volunteer leaders.

BSALegal.org >

Chanel, why are you always spouting off about things that you know nothing about?

AACHEM...

Dear Chanel... I think the term is "You got told"... thoroughly...

 

[kwc57]

Could an atheist group charter a scout group?

If it is a religion, as Chanel claims, I would think yes. But I imagine the answer is no.

If they are a religion that can answer in the affirmative to this, then yes. If not, no.

BSA Declaration of Religious Principle
Excerpted from the Adult Registration Application B.S.A. No. 28-501.

The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.

Only persons willing to subscribe to these precepts from the Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of leadership.

So the answer is no, atheists cannot charter a scout group.

Ravi,

I can't spell it out any clearer than I already have. My only other option is to take a 2x4 and hit you between the eyes, but I like you to much for that.

I'm Baptist. I have no desire to join a Catholic church....even though they have all those cool clothes and stuff. Why does an atheist want to join a group with beliefs contrary to their own? You know........we don't allow girls either.

 

[chanel]

That's already been conceded. Kids who refuse to take the oath are denied. But the funny thing is, that kids that refuse to take the oath usually don't apply.

I have been involved with the scouts for ten years. I have been to meetings, events, Eagle ceremonies, etc. and have witnessed nothing but goodness. It makes me sad that there are people who want to see that end.

The haters don't give a damn about the kids. Fortunately, there are still many of us who do.

So how about that atheist camp?

 

[HUGGY]

True. And personally I have no problem with an atheist summer camp. And if they want to make fun of those that disagree, so be it.

I do have a problem with the hypocrisy though.

The boy scout thread had me hot under the collar yesterday. Boy Scouts are not taught to make fun of anyone as many alleged in that thread. They do not "preach bigotry" because the sexual/religious preference of CHILDREN is a non-issue.

But it seems that this camp revels in bigotry.

You are wrong about the Boy Scouts. I was a cub scout and a boy scout and have seen the indoctrination towards accepting christianity and rejecting any other concept. The camping and skills were interesting but the preaching was stifling. I already lived in wilderness camping, hunting and fishing on my own so I quit just before the transition to Eagle Scout where the indoctrination was even more intense. Scouting was more about accepting authority than learning personal skills and values.

As an Assistant Scoutmaster, I have to call BS on some of what you said. The BSA at the national level has their joining requirements for youth and adults that you can consider the minimum joining requirements. Local councils grant a charter to a chartering organization which could be anything from a school to a church to the local VFW or Masonic Lodge, etc. These chartering organizations can have additional joining requirements. For instance, a Catholic church can charter a Pack or Troop and restrict membership to their church members or to only Catholics. A school can limit their membership to only their students. A charter grants an organization to use the scouting program as part of their overall outreach in the community. So, the church that charters a Scout Troop can say that the Troop must have a worship service on the Sunday morning of a campout and that it must be a Christian evangelical service. Most troops I know are chartered by churches, but they are open troops and the church does not restrict membership or dictate program. A few do.

Any youth or their parent can vote with their feet and shop the market. There are 11 districts in my council and 25 troops in my district which covers only a portion of Oklahoma City. If you don't like the way one troop operates in my district, you have 24 others to visit and join. In the metro area, there are probably at least another 50.

Religious indoctrination in scouting is determined by the chartering organization pure and simple and most don't go in that direction. My troop has been chartered by a United Methodist church for the last 45 years. We have white, black, asian and hispanic kids. Most are evangelical Christians, but we do have Catholics, a Jew and a Muslim. Our "services" when wee have them are about 5 minutes in length and totally non-sectarian. They are put together by the boys and not adults. When we say grace, we simply say amen at the end instead of "in Jesus name".

Scouting has nothing to do with accepting authority. The mission of the BSA is, "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." The vision of the BSA is, "The Boy Scouts of America will prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law." This is done using the patrol method in the outdoors. We teach boys how to become independent and leaders, not to "accept authority".

And you don't transition to Eagle. You earn it. Only about 5% of Scouts ever attain the Eagle rank.

Go **** yourself ya pompus ******. Going from boy scout to eagle scout is a transition just like going to college is a transition. Get over yourself.. I don't need a queer like you to interpret something I personally experienced. Keep in mind ya NAMBLA *****...I was in the scouts from 1956 till 1962. and in Indian Guides before that. That was probably before you were born and before your leering at young boys even started.

 

[chanel]

Sooooooo how about that atheist camp?

 

[HUGGY]

Sooooooo how about that atheist camp?

Sorry about that. It just chaps my hide when someone talks over a post.

What the twit could have said is..."Hmmm.interesting...my experience was different..blah..blah blah.."

He presented the same controlling attitudes that I experienced as a scout.

Now how about ATHIEST CAMPS!!!

 

[Ravi]

If they are a religion that can answer in the affirmative to this, then yes. If not, no.

BSA Declaration of Religious Principle
Excerpted from the Adult Registration Application B.S.A. No. 28-501.

The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.

Only persons willing to subscribe to these precepts from the Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of leadership.

So the answer is no, atheists cannot charter a scout group.

Ravi,

I can't spell it out any clearer than I already have. My only other option is to take a 2x4 and hit you between the eyes, but I like you to much for that.

I'm Baptist. I have no desire to join a Catholic church....even though they have all those cool clothes and stuff. Why does an atheist want to join a group with beliefs contrary to their own? You know........we don't allow girls either.

Because even atheists like to camp, canoe and learn to tie knots.

I honestly cannot see why the BSA would deny someone because they don't believe but then again I never realized the BSA was a quasi-religious organization.

 

[Ravi]

So how about that atheist camp?

It sounds stupid. But I'm still scratching my head over your reaction to the differing philosophies.

BSA, imo, is stupider for banning kids because of their lack of religious belief or because they are gay.

Though of course they are within their rights to do so.

 

[WillowTree]

poking fun at faith isn't forbidden.

Isn't that a major tennant of Atheism? Making fun of organized religion?

I thought it was becoming worm food.

 

[Mini 14]

I don't worry about the atheists. They're all going to hell anyway.

 

[geauxtohell]

I wonder if atheist camp is as lame as church camp?

Either way, the core concepts are the same.

A bunch of adults who have made up their minds editorializing/indoctrinating young, impressionable minds.

 

[Immanuel]

So the answer is no, atheists cannot charter a scout group.

Ravi,

I can't spell it out any clearer than I already have. My only other option is to take a 2x4 and hit you between the eyes, but I like you to much for that.

I'm Baptist. I have no desire to join a Catholic church....even though they have all those cool clothes and stuff. Why does an atheist want to join a group with beliefs contrary to their own? You know........we don't allow girls either.

Because even atheists like to camp, canoe and learn to tie knots.

I honestly cannot see why the BSA would deny someone because they don't believe but then again I never realized the BSA was a quasi-religious organization.

I have to agree with you here.

Just because someone does not agree with you, is not a reason to exclude them. What better way than to include them and make them a friend?

They may not agree with you when they start and they may never change their point of view, but they will most likely become your friend and respect you in the long run.

Immie

 

[Ravi]

Ravi,

I can't spell it out any clearer than I already have. My only other option is to take a 2x4 and hit you between the eyes, but I like you to much for that.

I'm Baptist. I have no desire to join a Catholic church....even though they have all those cool clothes and stuff. Why does an atheist want to join a group with beliefs contrary to their own? You know........we don't allow girls either.

Because even atheists like to camp, canoe and learn to tie knots.

I honestly cannot see why the BSA would deny someone because they don't believe but then again I never realized the BSA was a quasi-religious organization.

I have to agree with you here.

Just because someone does not agree with you, is not a reason to exclude them. What better way than to include them and make them a friend?

They may not agree with you when they start and they may never change their point of view, but they will most likely become your friend and respect you in the long run.

Immie

Yep...and in matters of religion, why punish children because no adult has started an atheist version of the Scouts? Or even because children have atheist parents...there is no real guarantee that the children of atheists will remain atheists.