Atheist soldier says Army punished him

[BrianH]

And Thomas Jefferson was referring to Nature's God and NOT the Judeo-Christian God that you believe rules your life. Do you understand the difference? Try reading Blasphemy by Alan Dershowitz.

This proves that our nation was founded by men who favored reason and spirituality over Christian centric dogma.

TAOMON, I'm not referring to Christianity, check my other posts...I'm referring to the fact that MONOTHEISM--the belief in one God--played a role in the foundations of this country. I clarified this in earlier posts. I agree that Christianity did not play role. This explains why you don't see "IN JESUS WE TRUST" on our currency.

You guys need to get off the anti-christian juice and actually read what people post.

All of the evidence that I just posted has nothing to do with Christianity, it has to do with Monotheism.

 

[Shogun]

Thomas Jefferson

"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

Benjamin Franklin

"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."

"God grant that not only the love of liberty but a thorough knowledge of the rights of man may pervade all the nations of the earth, so that a philosopher may set his foot anywhere on its surface and say: This is my country. "

"This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins. "

"Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature."

Alexander Hamilton

"I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”

Shall I find more... ??? I can't seem to agree with anything you say.

By all means, keep looking.

A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.
Thomas Jefferson

notice... no hint of mentioning the Declaration of Independance.

Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.
Thomas Jefferson

Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear.
Thomas Jefferson


How much pain they have cost us, the evils which have never happened.
Thomas Jefferson

I am an Epicurean. I consider the genuine (not the imputed) doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greek and Roman leave to us.
Thomas Jefferson

I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
Thomas Jefferson

I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.
Thomas Jefferson

Religious views

Though his religious views diverted widely from the orthodox Christianity of his day, throughout his life Jefferson was intensely interested in theology, spirituality, and biblical study.[42] His religious commitment is probably best summarized in his own words as he proclaimed that he belonged to a sect with just one member.

Jefferson's conclusions about the Bible are noteworthy. He considered much of the new testament of the Bible to be lies. He described these as "so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture". He described the "roguery of others of His disciples", and called them a "band of dupes and impostors" describing Paul as the "first corruptor of the doctrines of Jesus", and wrote of "palpable interpolations and falsifications". He also decribed the Book of Revelation to be "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams". While living in the White House, Jefferson began to make his own condensed version of the Gospels, omitting Jesus' virgin birth, miracles, divinity, and resurrection, primarily leaving only Jesus' moral philosophy, of which he approved. This compilation was published after his death and became known as the Jefferson Bible.[43]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson#Religious_views


I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others.
Thomas Jefferson

I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever.
Thomas Jefferson

I was bold in the pursuit of knowledge, never fearing to follow truth and reason to whatever results they led, and bearding every authority which stood in their way.
Thomas Jefferson

Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong.
Thomas Jefferson

In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God.
Thomas Jefferson

It is always better to have no ideas than false ones; to believe nothing, than to believe what is wrong.
Thomas Jefferson

It is in our lives and not our words that our religion must be read.
Thomas Jefferson

Money, not morality, is the principle commerce of civilized nations.
Thomas Jefferson

Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man.
Thomas Jefferson

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson

The good opinion of mankind, like the lever of Archimedes, with the given fulcrum, moves the world.
Thomas Jefferson

The way to silence religious disputes is to take no notice of them.
Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson

To penetrate and dissipate these clouds of darkness, the general mind must be strengthened by education.
Thomas Jefferson

Truth is certainly a branch of morality and a very important one to society.
Thomas Jefferson





Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Benjamin Franklin

Im glad you posted that one... since, clearly, jebus shows his love with alcohol just like pan.

almost as tongue in cheek as:

God works wonders now and then; Behold a lawyer, an honest man.
Benjamin Franklin

“As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England some doubts as to his [Jesus] divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequence, as it probably has, of making his doctrines more respected and better observed; especially as I do not perceive, that the Supreme take it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any particular marks of his displeasure.”
from a letter written on March 9, 1790 by Ben Franklin to Ezra Stiles, a Congregational minister and president of Yale College, responding to specific questions by Stiles regarding Franklin’s “opinion concerning Jesus of Nazareth” (written when sick at 86 years old — Franklin died a few weeks later on 4/17/90):
http://benfranklin.worldhistoryblogs.com/2008/01/04/spare-some-change/


"He who shall introduce into public affairs the principles of primitive Christianity will change the face of the world."
Ben Franklin

"My parents had given me betimes religions impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself.
Ben Franklin Autobiography




In politics, as in religion, it is equally absurd to aim at making proselytes by fire and sword. Heresies in either can rarely be cured by persecution.
Alexander Hamilton


The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and, however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true to fact. The people are turbulent and changing, they seldom judge or determine right.
Alexander Hamilton




NOTICE A PATTERN, dude?

Liberty and REASON seems to be the forfront of motivation to me.. Not jebus dogma. I'll remind you, we don't take our national rights from the Declaration of Independance... even if thats where you had to go in order to dig up a quote referring to god.

 

[BrianH]

Historically, religion/spiritual belief has always dictated/affected, in some way, every civilization known to have existed. Why should the United States be any different. Are we breaking the mold?........no. Every civilization's beginning, and many's conduction, have involved some aspects of their religious and spiritual beliefs. There's no dodging that.

Monotheism has played a role in the foundations of our society.
--over %80 percent of the population, in 2002, are of monotheistic religion, coincidence? No...and in fact, that's probably a smaller percentage than when the country began.

 

[BrianH]

By all means, keep looking.

A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.
Thomas Jefferson

notice... no hint of mentioning the Declaration of Independance.

Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.
Thomas Jefferson

Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear.
Thomas Jefferson


How much pain they have cost us, the evils which have never happened.
Thomas Jefferson

I am an Epicurean. I consider the genuine (not the imputed) doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greek and Roman leave to us.
Thomas Jefferson

I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
Thomas Jefferson

I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.
Thomas Jefferson

Religious views

Though his religious views diverted widely from the orthodox Christianity of his day, throughout his life Jefferson was intensely interested in theology, spirituality, and biblical study.[42] His religious commitment is probably best summarized in his own words as he proclaimed that he belonged to a sect with just one member.

Jefferson's conclusions about the Bible are noteworthy. He considered much of the new testament of the Bible to be lies. He described these as "so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture". He described the "roguery of others of His disciples", and called them a "band of dupes and impostors" describing Paul as the "first corruptor of the doctrines of Jesus", and wrote of "palpable interpolations and falsifications". He also decribed the Book of Revelation to be "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams". While living in the White House, Jefferson began to make his own condensed version of the Gospels, omitting Jesus' virgin birth, miracles, divinity, and resurrection, primarily leaving only Jesus' moral philosophy, of which he approved. This compilation was published after his death and became known as the Jefferson Bible.[43]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson#Religious_views


I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others.
Thomas Jefferson

I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever.
Thomas Jefferson

I was bold in the pursuit of knowledge, never fearing to follow truth and reason to whatever results they led, and bearding every authority which stood in their way.
Thomas Jefferson

Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong.
Thomas Jefferson

In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God.
Thomas Jefferson

It is always better to have no ideas than false ones; to believe nothing, than to believe what is wrong.
Thomas Jefferson

It is in our lives and not our words that our religion must be read.
Thomas Jefferson

Money, not morality, is the principle commerce of civilized nations.
Thomas Jefferson

Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man.
Thomas Jefferson

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson

The good opinion of mankind, like the lever of Archimedes, with the given fulcrum, moves the world.
Thomas Jefferson

The way to silence religious disputes is to take no notice of them.
Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson

To penetrate and dissipate these clouds of darkness, the general mind must be strengthened by education.
Thomas Jefferson

Truth is certainly a branch of morality and a very important one to society.
Thomas Jefferson





Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Benjamin Franklin

Im glad you posted that one... since, clearly, jebus shows his love with alcohol just like pan.

almost as tongue in cheek as:

God works wonders now and then; Behold a lawyer, an honest man.
Benjamin Franklin

“As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England some doubts as to his [Jesus] divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequence, as it probably has, of making his doctrines more respected and better observed; especially as I do not perceive, that the Supreme take it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any particular marks of his displeasure.”
from a letter written on March 9, 1790 by Ben Franklin to Ezra Stiles, a Congregational minister and president of Yale College, responding to specific questions by Stiles regarding Franklin’s “opinion concerning Jesus of Nazareth” (written when sick at 86 years old — Franklin died a few weeks later on 4/17/90):
http://benfranklin.worldhistoryblogs.com/2008/01/04/spare-some-change/


"He who shall introduce into public affairs the principles of primitive Christianity will change the face of the world."
Ben Franklin

"My parents had given me betimes religions impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself.
Ben Franklin Autobiography




In politics, as in religion, it is equally absurd to aim at making proselytes by fire and sword. Heresies in either can rarely be cured by persecution.
Alexander Hamilton


The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and, however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true to fact. The people are turbulent and changing, they seldom judge or determine right.
Alexander Hamilton




NOTICE A PATTERN, dude?

Liberty and REASON seems to be the forfront of motivation to me.. Not jebus dogma. I'll remind you, we don't take our national rights from the Declaration of Independance... even if thats where you had to go in order to dig up a quote referring to god.

Not a nice patter, but a nice array of random quotes that don't mean jack...

"The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and, however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true to fact. The people are turbulent and changing, they seldom judge or determine right.
Alexander Hamilton"

--Doesn't mean anything, it just means that people such as yourself are incapable of doing anything right...their more turbulent and changing. Has nothing to do with the non-existence of God. (take the time to analyze it)

"God works wonders now and then; Behold a lawyer, an honest man."

--still doesn't deny the existence of God--

Granted there are few that do...


BUT YOU'RE STILL CAUGHT UP ON CHRISTIANITY-----and that's not what I'm discussing. Take of the anti-christian blindfold and read what I post.

 

[Shogun]

We're not talking about what defines this nation num nuts, we're talking about whether or not religion played a role...and anyway you look at it, it does. Just admit that you're wrong. In the Constitution you see Amendments...they dictate how the Federal Government is run, and what kinds of rights the federal, state, and local governments have...along with the civil liberties and rights. That's beside the point though. The last time I checked, I didn't see a 10 page history inside the Contitution that gave reasons why the Constitution is the way it is?

This was about whether religion played a role...and it did. You can dismiss all of those quotes and evidence if you like. But the fact remains the same.

Nobodies debating what you say about Hammaurabi and Mohammed, but the argument is about whether or not religion has played a role in the formation of the United States.

Last I checked, Mohammed was a prophet in a Monotheistic religion. You can't deny that.
And also the last I checked, there is more evidence to suggest that religion played a role. Every U.S. coin an currency you have says "IN GOD WE TRUST" on it.

Oh, and did you take the time to look at the sites I posted for you.
I really don't feel the need to continue this debate, but if you'd like, I'll keep stacking up the evidence against you.

OPINIONS ONLY GO SO FAR...

Uh, you might wanna reread the thread, dude. The arguement is whether or not this is a CHRISTIAN NATION.. not if there were christians in the thirteen colonies. Who the hell has ever denied that there were christians in colonial America? Quote someone suggesting as much. Are you familiar with the term strawman?

And no, the CONSTITUTION is not besides the point. THAT is the document that defines this nation. THAT is the source of our liberties. Not the Decleration... Not random Hamilton quotes. NOT some conveluded christian crusade to piss on the tree of america and claim it for the sake of their ghost in the sky. Go back and reread some history without the dogma bifocals clouding your eyes. There is a reason the very first amendment deals with the seperation of church and state... maybe if you stop injecting dogma into your veins you'll comprehend that Jefferson, in fact, by his own actions and words was as far from a christian as I am.


Say, what does the term JEFFERSONIAN DEMOCRACY mean to you anyway?

After all, if you still insist that christianity played a role then so to did a pagan god that gave Hammurabi his laws, eh? I mean, FAR BE IT for a christian to ignore hisotry as long as it doesn't kiss the ass of jebus, eh?

Are you going to stop bouncing around in your position? So, NOW since you can't deny the fact of Mohammed and Hammurabi, you want to suggest that it's merely RELIGION IN GENERAL that is the heavy influece rather than, say, the desire for liberty, eh?

ooook, dude.


yea, and currency added "in god we trust" WHEN, again? DOH! didn't think that one through, did you? Hey, why don't you remind me about the pledge now! I probably don't hve a bear claw waiting for you behind that door....

HAHAHAHAHA!

So, let me get this strait.. NOW, you are to the point of declaring that any monotheistic religion, EVEN ISLAM, is the source by which our nations laws are defined, eh?

I'm about to put you back on my wall of trophies, dude.


Yea, you keep poking around with "evidence" dude... maybe you'll read something that is not a study guide from history 101 at bob jones U.

 

[BrianH]

What caused the attitude of the colonists to change to all of a sudden not agree with the ruling of a king or queen. There had been kings and queens who where tyrants before this, but they didn't seem to start up a new government then. The englightenment in Europe mixing with the great awakening (religious/spiritual) of the colonies brought forth this attitude that the divine right of kings was not right. Any way you look at it...MONOTHEISTIC RELIGION(S) played a role in the founding of the United States.

 

[Shogun]

Historically, religion/spiritual belief has always dictated/affected, in some way, every civilization known to have existed. Why should the United States be any different. Are we breaking the mold?........no. Every civilization's beginning, and many's conduction, have involved some aspects of their religious and spiritual beliefs. There's no dodging that.

Monotheism has played a role in the foundations of our society.
--over %80 percent of the population, in 2002, are of monotheistic religion, coincidence? No...and in fact, that's probably a smaller percentage than when the country began.

I find it HILARIOUS how you are falling back on "monotheistic" religion as if it validates the original christian arguement... Indeed, it's no mystery why dogma junkies try to inject science with ID in the same fashion.


So... how do the current 80% compare with the original population of religious peeps in America, dude? Wanna dive into the fact of quakers, catholics and puritans of can we pretend that they were all baptists and evangelicals observing the same traditions festering the nation today? Is this another little fact we get to ignore and wrap opaque nomenclature around just to find a common dogma denominator?


Hey, did you know that no nation has ever occured where clothes were not worn? HOly SHIT, do you know what this means for the creation of our nation? profound!


Indeed, again, do keep posting facts, dude.. you are bound to run accross the words of Jefferson eventually.

 

[Shogun]

Not a nice patter, but a nice array of random quotes that don't mean jack...

"The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and, however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true to fact. The people are turbulent and changing, they seldom judge or determine right.
Alexander Hamilton"

--Doesn't mean anything, it just means that people such as yourself are incapable of doing anything right...their more turbulent and changing. Has nothing to do with the non-existence of God. (take the time to analyze it)

"God works wonders now and then; Behold a lawyer, an honest man."

--still doesn't deny the existence of God--

Granted there are few that do...


BUT YOU'RE STILL CAUGHT UP ON CHRISTIANITY-----and that's not what I'm discussing. Take of the anti-christian blindfold and read what I post.

]yea... Thomas Jefferson making a specific declaration about his lack of faith in christianity sure is irrelevant!



Ben Franklin on his deathbed giving ambivilent answers about christiany sure has no merit in THIS conversation!



Maybe you need to go read the thread, dude. You are clearly outmatched here.

 

[BrianH]

Agreed---the original thread posted about Christian values....

My post from yesterday:

"Agreed, you don't see, "Christ Almighty" on your currency or pledge...but you do see God. Maybe I should have been more clear... Monotheism and it's teachings have played a large role in the formation of our society. Every civilization has based their culture and society on their beliefs...Mayans, Aztecs, Minoans, Egyptians, Spartans, Romans,Byzantines, Spanish, All of Latin America, the Middle East, most of Europe...all of it was established based on religious and ideological beleifs. America is no different."

How can you (just now) try to claim that I'm changing my position? When in fact I clarified my position yesterday on the thread. This goes to show how fast you read and not how good you read.

And I never denied the facts about Mohammed and Hammaurabi...so you can't say that I'm no longer denying.

Just admit it, you're better at being a jack-ass than you are at arguing logically.

Like I said before....EVERY CIVILIZATION IN HISTORY HAS IT'S FOUNDATIONS OF RELIGION/SPIRITUALITY IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER. The U.S IS NO DIFFERENT.

 

[Shogun]

What caused the attitude of the colonists to change to all of a sudden not agree with the ruling of a king or queen. There had been kings and queens who where tyrants before this, but they didn't seem to start up a new government then. The englightenment in Europe mixing with the great awakening (religious/spiritual) of the colonies brought forth this attitude that the divine right of kings was not right. Any way you look at it...MONOTHEISTIC RELIGION(S) played a role in the founding of the United States.

are you ******* smoking crack? The boston tea party didn't happen because of some "spiritual enlightenment".. But I find it hilarious that you would try to repackage the actual enlightment in a christian wrapping and try to resell it as something new...

Kinda like DC TALK;s entire career, eh? Well, christian music in general, really.


SPIRITUAL enlightenment! Yea, clearly people like Ben Franklin who were off putting physical science to the test were indicators of a SPIRITUAL enlightenment... Hanging with voltaire? thats just a myth propegated by secularists! JEFFERSONIAN democracy? meh, **** THAt guy and his JEFFERSONIAN BIBLE SANS THE MAGIC AND MIRICLES... clearly that guy was a southern baptist!

 

[BrianH]

The last I checked, Benjamin Franklin didn't help establish the country on his deathbed....

How can you take something someone's said on their death bed and apply it to their life before that. It sounds like you're the only one that still believes the crap you heard when you were five. Most people don't believe the same things they do when they're younger.

So let me get this straight....Thomas Jefferson's quotes about his lack of faith outnumbers his quotes about his quotes acknowledging God? Come on, don't make me laugh..... too late. You've simply countered my evidence with something contradictory, you havn't proven anything.

MONOTHEISTIC RELIGION PLAYED A ROLE IN THE FOUNDATIONS OF THIS COUNTRY. AND BECAUSE THE MONOTHEISTIC RELIGION DURING THIS TIME PERIOD WAS CHRISTIANITY, THEN CHRISTIANITY PLAYED A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN THIS FOUNDATION.

By the way, do you have an exact date the Mohammed was placed on he wall of our supreme court? Was it immediately after the constitution was written?

Check out your sculpture of Mohammed on the Supreme Court Wall---To his left and right are Charlemagne and Justinian--advocates of christianity---MONOTHEISM

 

[Shogun]

Agreed---the original thread posted about Christian values....

uh, so then why the hell are you trying to say anything about MONOTHEISTIC religion? This thread has been, and always was, about the influence of christianity in the creation of this nation and how such is supposedly what our government was built around. It's total bullshit but hey, who needs facts when we want to ignore the words of thomas jefferson himself?


My post from yesterday:

"Agreed, you don't see, "Christ Almighty" on your currency or pledge...but you do see God. Maybe I should have been more clear... Monotheism and it's teachings have played a large role in the formation of our society. Every civilization has based their culture and society on their beliefs...Mayans, Aztecs, Minoans, Egyptians, Spartans, Romans,Byzantines, Spanish, All of Latin America, the Middle East, most of Europe...all of it was established based on religious and ideological beleifs. America is no different."

uh, so this includes the pagan god that Hammurabi was rubbing elbows with? Or are we going to ignore that and stop at jebus and moses?



How can you (just now) try to claim that I'm changing my position? When in fact I clarified my position yesterday on the thread. This goes to show how fast you read and not how good you read.


Dude, you've been bouncing around left and right after I remind you of facts like Hammurabi. Indeed, you uh CLARIFIED your position alright. Not that anyone else in this thread has even remotley tried to suggest that monotheistic religion, rather than CHRISTIANITY, has been the American influence. Because, you know... This nation sure is just like the ******* Aztecs! JUST LIKE the Pharoes too... Oh wait a minture... EGYPT, easily one of the longest reigning national identities was ruled by GODS, plural... In fact, ROME, the last direct influence used by the FFs to mold our nation was, too, the product of an entire ******* PANTHEON... uh oh, dude. it might be time for another shift in what you are argueing...


And I never denied the facts about Mohammed and Hammaurabi...so you can't say that I'm no longer denying.

Facts sure are just like roman lions in that way, arent they?

Just admit it, you're better at being a jack-ass than you are at arguing logically.


Or, I have fun batting you around like a tomcat with a mouse since history really is on my side, eh?

DOH!


Like I said before....EVERY CIVILIZATION IN HISTORY HAS IT'S FOUNDATIONS OF RELIGION/SPIRITUALITY IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER. The U.S IS NO DIFFERENT.

yea.. just like EVERY civilisation was ruled by a class of monarchs just like the US.. oh wait.. thats not true either...

sorry, dude... society wasn't created for the sake of religion. Even the very first collections of human populations were created to facilitate commerce rather than the mythology du jour.

Religion isn't why the US was created no matter how loud you want to scream that Im a big meanie. Religion is not what gives us our liberties regardless of how much fun I'm having with you. religion is not what molded our constitutional rights.


This nation is no more reflective of christian dogma than you are reflective of a Pennsylvania quaker... but don;t let that keep you from repackaging history..

 

[Shogun]

The last I checked, Benjamin Franklin didn't help establish the country on his deathbed....

How can you take something someone's said on their death bed and apply it to their life before that. It sounds like you're the only one that still believes the crap you heard when you were five. Most people don't believe the same things they do when they're younger.

So let me get this straight....Thomas Jefferson's quotes about his lack of faith outnumbers his quotes about his quotes acknowledging God? Come on, don't make me laugh..... too late. You've simply countered my evidence with something contradictory, you havn't proven anything.

MONOTHEISTIC RELIGION PLAYED A ROLE IN THE FOUNDATIONS OF THIS COUNTRY. AND BECAUSE THE MONOTHEISTIC RELIGION DURING THIS TIME PERIOD WAS CHRISTIANITY, THEN CHRISTIANITY PLAYED A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN THIS FOUNDATION.

By the way, do you have an exact date the Mohammed was placed on he wall of our supreme court? Was it immediately after the constitution was written?

Check out your sculpture of Mohammed on the Supreme Court Wall---To his left and right are Charlemagne and Justinian--advocates of christianity---MONOTHEISM

Are you really going to suggest that Ben Franklin was not one of the core significant FF's whose own words very well reflect the motivation behind the ******* revolution?

WOW.

I suggest you read a little about the man before making any more ignorant statements, dude. He was not a christian. jefferson was not a christian. by all means, believe what you need to though.

Go read Jefferson's biography. Find out why he tried to re-rwite the bible. I don't really care if you think Washington's cherry tree was more true than Jefferson's non-christianity. I'm perfectly fine with ignorant people believeing ignorant things.



yea dude... christiany played about as large a part as pantaloons, mud and powdered wigs. The Constition was not influenced by their fashion any more than it was their personal religions. After all, IM not the one ignoring the fact of DEISM here. While trying to put all monotheistic religions like islam, and ******* aztecs (who were not monotheistic, btw) and christian on the same scale of American influence.



PS,

The supreme court artwork was created in the 1930s... Clearly not as profound as adding "under god" to the pledge in 1954 or adding "in god we trust" during the civil war.

clearly.



Say, Hammurabi's culture was a monotheistic one, wasnt it?

Egypt? Where monarch were gods?

Rome? The last greatest empire to which our FFs took direction?

please keep responding. this is fun.

 

[BrianH]

Ok...you're right and I'm wrong. I know that's what you want to hear, so I'll say it. It doesn't mean it's true.

I have other interesting things to do with my time than argue with an ignorant fool who thinks his OPINION is more valuable than numerous facts and evidence. The fact is, there's more hardcore evidence to suggest that religion played a role no matter how much you scrutinize it. You simply take little snippitze of bull crap and assume thats what was meant when they said that.

All you do is rant because you're anti-christian--that blocks out your abilitiy to discuss rationally.

Let's get this straight, I posted several posts ago that i was clarifying Monotheistic religion. If that didn't have anything to do with the topic...you should have said so. Instead, you kept responding about Christianity while I responded about monotheism, so you're the ass that can't read a post correctly.

I should have listened to everyone else who said you're a nut-job who can't debate worth a crap. Have a nice day. I got better things to do with my time.

 

[Shogun]

yea.. little snippets like Thomas Jefferson quotes and the Franklin autobiography...




I mean, shit.. there really is so much evidence that the nation was formed because of a spiritual revival, hallalu-juah! You know, because there were religion people in the colonies! regardless of the men who were clearly fans of the ENLIGHTENMENT.. who professed their own lack of faith in christianity. who ne'er mentioned once in the constitution the validity of god or the origin or liberty from such.

yes..

clearly you are the one relying on facts here, dude... crying about my delivery probably makes this more true.



Let's get this straight, I posted several posts ago that i was clarifying Monotheistic religion. If that didn't have anything to do with the topic...you should have said so.

so.. its MY job to make sure you comprehend the conversation? How many times did I suggest you actually reread the thread? Dont blame me if you came to battle with a half empty quiver.



nothing says historic fact like bitter tears from other casualties in this forum.. After all, when losing a debate just cry about the messenger.. that usually works!

 

[M14 Shooter]

No...atheism isn't a religion (although I've seen you argue a number of times it is... ). But the right to freedom of religion also means freedom *from* religion.

You can certainly exercise you right to not practice a religion.
You cannot then in the same breath say that in doing so you are practicing a religion.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

For that claim to work you'll have to prove the existence of God..

No, I only need a majority of citizens to believe in such.

Personally I'm okay with the idea that being a human being is sufficient, that mere existence means that each of us has human rights. .

That is your opinion, but obviously, billions of others believe some people are born superior with more rights. If man gives the rights, man can take them away. You dont have the right to take something you didnt give in the first place.

Your argument, I think, is weakened in its appeal to God by the fact that governments indeed take away our human rights in certain circumstances. For example, after due process a convicted murderer can be executed. That's probably the most extreme example of the loss of a human right. Legislatures can do that without permission from God, they simply legislate for it.

But ;that removal of the right in a religous society, is not approved by the religous, nor do they want to allow the legislature to take away that or any other rights, unless approved by God. A secular societie's legislation can take away any right anytime it deems it to be better for society. They can strip rights if the person does nothing, God given rights can only be stripped if the person commits a crime/sin.

Hence, theoretically, if a per5son maintains a good life, relatively free of crime and sin, their rights cannot be taken away, however in secular societies, rights can be stripped for any reason the majority deems proper.

God provides for that removal of the right to life also in the Bible.
Rights are only stripped, if given by God, when someone commits a sin to allow society to strip them of that right, AS DESIGNATED BY GOD.

Your last sentence is true, and proves my point, in a secular society only, in a religious one, it is not true and cant be done without Gods permission as long as a majority; of citizens believe in God, and believe only He has the right to take away the right to life.

Now mind you, some do strip rights based on "religion" but in reality, they are ;using religion as an excuse through mis interpetation or out and out a buse of the scriptures. They did it with slavery, no TRUE Chrisitian would have evr apprpved of slavery in its condition during America in the 1800's.
Those who show that slaves existed in Israel and the Bible, approved by God, are comparing apples and oranges, as the slavery in the Bible is NOTHING compared to the treatment of Blacks, circa 1800. One should be called slavery, (the blacks) adn the other involuntary servitude(The Hebrews, as God provided for that condition to end, if the server wanted it to, blacks had no such choice, EVER)

Its is simply dishonest to compare the two, or claim The Bible allows slavery as existed in America with blacks. Its simply not true.

 

[jillian]

You can certainly exercise you right to not practice a religion.
You cannot then in the same breath say that in doing so you are practicing a religion.

Huh? Wanna try that again?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Huh? Wanna try that again?

No. It was perfectly clear.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

BrianH posted:



Are you for real?

People deny/ignore historical facts EVERY ******* day, where the **** have YOU been living?

Grow up, listen up, join up, and then, start paying attention, life will make a whole lot more sense.

That wasnt really called for.