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Associated Press
updated 19 minutes ago
TOPEKA, Kan. - A soldier claimed Wednesday that his promotion was blocked because he had claimed in a lawsuit that the Army was violating his right to be an atheist.
Attorneys for Spc. Jeremy Hall and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation refiled the federal lawsuit Wednesday in Kansas City, Kan., and added a complaint alleging that the blocked promotion was in response to the legal action.
The suit was filed in September but dropped last month so the new allegations could be included. Among the defendants are Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
Hall alleges he was denied his constitutional right to hold a meeting to discuss atheism while he was deployed in Iraq with his military police unit. He says in the new complaint that his promotion was blocked after the commander of the 1st Infantry Division and Fort Riley sent an e-mail post-wide saying Hall had sued.
Fort Riley spokeswoman Alison Kohler said the post "can't comment on ongoing legal matters" and offered no further statement.
According to the lawsuit, Hall was counseled by his platoon sergeant after being informed that his promotion was blocked. He says the sergeant explained that Hall would be "unable to put aside his personal convictions and pray with his troops" and would have trouble bonding with them if promoted to a leadership position.
Are all equal?
Hall responded that religion is not a requirement of leadership, even though the sergeant wondered how he had rights if atheism wasn't a religion. Hall said atheism is protected under the Army's chaplain's manual.
"It shouldn't matter if one is Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist or atheist," said Pedro Irigonegaray, an attorney whose firm filed the lawsuit. "In the military, all are equal and to be considered equal."
Maj. Freddy J. Welborn was named in the lawsuit as the officer who prevented Hall from holding a meeting of atheists and non-Christians. It alleges that Welborn threatened to file military charges against Hall and to block his re-enlistment. Welborn has denied the allegations.
The lawsuit alleges that Gates permits a military culture in which officers are encouraged to pressure soldiers to adopt and espouse fundamentalist Christian beliefs, and in which activities by Christian organizations are sanctioned.
Hall's attorneys say Fort Riley has permitted a culture promoting Christianity and anti-Islamic sentiment, including posters quoting conservative columnist Ann Coulter and sale of a book, "A Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam," at the post exchange.
'Rare courage to stand up'
The Pentagon has said that the military values and respects religious freedoms, but that accommodating religious practices should not interfere with unit cohesion, readiness, standards or discipline.
Mikey Weinstein, president and founder of the religious freedom foundation, said the lawsuit would show the "almost incomprehensible national security risks to America" posed by the military's pattern of violating the religious freedom of those in uniform.
"It is beyond despicable, indeed wholly unlawful, that the United States Army is actively attempting to destroy the professional career of one of its decorated young fighting soldiers, with two completed combat tours in Iraq, simply because he had the rare courage to stand up for his constitutional rights," Weinstein said in a statement.
Weinstein previously sued the Air Force for acts he said illegally imposed Christianity on its students at the academy. A federal judge threw out that lawsuit in 2006.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23490989/
No...atheism isn't a religion (although I've seen you argue a number of times it is... ). But the right to freedom of religion also means freedom *from* religion.
No...atheism isn't a religion (although I've seen you argue a number of times it is... ). But the right to freedom of religion also means freedom *from* religion.
No...atheism isn't a religion (although I've seen you argue a number of times it is... ). But the right to freedom of religion also means freedom *from* religion.
No it doesn't. The US Constitution does NOT say that, nor imply it and any interpretation that claims it does smells REAL bad.
Be that as it may, apparently this atheist is arguing that it is a religion and he has been denied the right to practice it.
Fact is, by definition, it as every bit a religion as any other religion is.
Nice turn of a phrase. Not that it is true in any but the tounge in cheek sense. But it makes a great soundbyte.
The Constitution only works if it goes both ways. Saying there's freedom of "religion" for believers, but non-believers can get shoved around doesn't in any way, shape or form comport with the First Amendment.
And I'm not going to argue the point with you. It's been discussed far too many times on the board. There's only so many ways that people can prove atheism isn't a religion because religion REQUIRES a belief in the supernatural.
Pardon me but I'm going to intrude on a domestic issue.
If there is no state religion (spare me Federalist Papers 101 let's keep it at a practical level) then it surely follows that religion or non-religion should be irrelevant to anyone in the service of the state. Yes or no?
Yes.
As long as their not queer.
This one's going to get tossed as well. I'll be interested to see how this guy's atheist beliefs fall under the Constitutional right to practice one's religion if, as I have been told time and again on this board, atheism is not a religion.
As far as his wanting to hold a meeting, one does not have the right to do anything on military time but what the military tells one.
I think you want the next thread, this one is about religion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM
Paradox. United Kingdom has a state religion. Religion is negligible in the political process. United States forbids state religion. Religion infests the political process.
Thoughts?
I mean thoughts, not irrelevant snarling. But if you want to do that fine, see you in the bullring.
I will say this, freedom of religion is also freedom from religion. The army cannot sanction any specific religious groups without sanctioning all religious groups.
If a group of atheists want to meet, they should be allowed so long as it does not interfere with scheduled activities...which creates a gray area.
But who is to say that atheism will not become a religion unto itself. All religions started out as small groups, persecuted by the organized sects of that day, until a congregation can be formed and the views recognized by others.
Quote:
Associated Press
updated 19 minutes ago
TOPEKA, Kan. - A soldier claimed Wednesday that his promotion was blocked because he had claimed in a lawsuit that the Army was violating his right to be an atheist. So what? Unless the Army is far more PC than I thought, promotion isn't a right. It is either earned or not.
Attorneys for Spc. Jeremy Hall and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation refiled the federal lawsuit Wednesday in Kansas City, Kan., and added a complaint alleging that the blocked promotion was in response to the legal action. Well, good for them. By making the allegation they assume the burden of proof. I would truly like to see the Army tell the young Specialist to STFU and either prove it or move on.
The suit was filed in September but dropped last month so the new allegations could be included. Among the defendants are Defense Secretary Robert Gates. Can a lawyer explain exactly how the Service Secretary is liable? He isn't even a part of the process. Sheesh. Lawsuit mentality.
Hall alleges he was denied his constitutional right to hold a meeting to discuss atheism while he was deployed in Iraq with his military police unit. He says in the new complaint that his promotion was blocked after the commander of the 1st Infantry Division and Fort Riley sent an e-mail post-wide saying Hall had sued. First thing he has to do is prove that his right to hold a meeting is constitutional. Next he has to prove that said meeting was in compliance with the local SOP. I would love to be a judge on this.
Fort Riley spokeswoman Alison Kohler said the post "can't comment on ongoing legal matters" and offered no further statement.
According to the lawsuit, Hall was counseled by his platoon sergeant after being informed that his promotion was blocked. He says the sergeant explained that Hall would be "unable to put aside his personal convictions and pray with his troops" and would have trouble bonding with them if promoted to a leadership position. First, Even the braindead should commend the Platoon Sergeant for being up front and honest. Most civilians would not have the balls to actually say such a thing out loud. Second, the Sergeant is likely wrong. It is unlikely the Platoon Sergeant has anything other than advisory status IRT a soldiers promotion. So, odds are, he was making his best guess.
Are all equal?
Hall responded that religion is not a requirement of leadership, even though the sergeant wondered how he had rights if atheism wasn't a religion. Hall said atheism is protected under the Army's chaplain's manual.
"It shouldn't matter if one is Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist or atheist," said Pedro Irigonegaray, an attorney whose firm filed the lawsuit. "In the military, all are equal and to be considered equal."
Maj. Freddy J. Welborn was named in the lawsuit as the officer who prevented Hall from holding a meeting of atheists and non-Christians. It alleges that Welborn threatened to file military charges against Hall and to block his re-enlistment. Welborn has denied the allegations. Well then. Now it is up to Hall to prove the allegations. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.
The lawsuit alleges that Gates permits a military culture in which officers are encouraged to pressure soldiers to adopt and espouse fundamentalist Christian beliefs, and in which activities by Christian organizations are sanctioned. So what? Again, the burden of proof is on the accuser. And, it's going to take a hell of a lot of proof. He is attempting to paint the entire US Army with a broad brush. Since Gates hasn't been serving as long as many of the Senior Enlisted or Officers it will be difficult to prove his influence. Might make for some good entertainment.
Hall's attorneys say Fort Riley has permitted a culture promoting Christianity and anti-Islamic sentiment, including posters quoting conservative columnist Ann Coulter and sale of a book, "A Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam," at the post exchange. The exchange sells that book everywhere. Thus, the Fort Riley allegation is pointless.
'Rare courage to stand up'
The Pentagon has said that the military values and respects religious freedoms, but that accommodating religious practices should not interfere with unit cohesion, readiness, standards or discipline. Well duh.
Mikey Weinstein, president and founder of the religious freedom foundation, said the lawsuit would show the "almost incomprehensible national security risks to America" posed by the military's pattern of violating the religious freedom of those in uniform.
"It is beyond despicable, indeed wholly unlawful, that the United States Army is actively attempting to destroy the professional career of one of its decorated young fighting soldiers, with two completed combat tours in Iraq, simply because he had the rare courage to stand up for his constitutional rights," Weinstein said in a statement. Weinstein is an idiot looking for publicity. "incomprehensible national security....." should be interesting to prove as well.
Weinstein previously sued the Air Force for acts he said illegally imposed Christianity on its students at the academy. A federal judge threw out that lawsuit in 2006.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23490989/
This one's going to get tossed as well. I'll be interested to see how this guy's atheist beliefs fall under the Constitutional right to practice one's religion if, as I have been told time and again on this board, atheism is not a religion.
As far as his wanting to hold a meeting, one does not have the right to do anything on military time but what the military tells one.
