Atheist soldier says Army punished him

[M14 Shooter]

You say that if a discussion falls under the usual free speech preclusions that solders suffer, then no they don’t have free speech. You also said that you don’t know what is in the “speech preclusions”.

Again, yes - that's exactly what I said.

These statements are not compatible with your answer in post # 246 in which you conclude that he has the same rights as the other soldiers.

No, they are perfectly compatible with that statement.
All soldiers have the same rights, whatever those rights might specifically be.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Good post. M14 has a hard time facing the fact rights should apply to all.

When you join the military, many of your rights are truncated.
You can whine about that all you want, but that fact remains, and it has withstood any relevant test you care to put to it.

 

[mattskramer]

Again, yes - that's exactly what I said.


No, they are perfectly compatible with that statement.
All soldiers have the same rights, whatever those rights might specifically be.

If you don’t know what the “speech preclusions” are, then how to you know that the preclusions do not say, “Christians may talk about Christianity but Atheists may not talk about atheism?”

 

[M14 Shooter]

If you don’t know what the “speech preclusions” are, then how to you know that the preclusions do not say, “Christians may talk about Christianity but Atheists may not talk about atheism?”

When did I say they did/didn't?
Give me the post.

 

[mattskramer]

When did I say they did/didn't?
Give me the post.

It is extrapolated from post # 261. If it is written that Christians may speak of Christianity but that Atheists are not allowed to speak of Atheism, then all soldiers do not have the same rights, whatever those rights might specifically be. Christians would have the rights to speak of their views but Atheists would not have the rights to speak of their views.

 

[M14 Shooter]

It is extrapolated from post # 261.

So, I didn't say it was/wasn't.
Thank you.

 

[mattskramer]

So, I didn't say it was/wasn't.
Thank you.

I never said that you said that they did/didn’t. Check out the posts very carefully.

Unless you know what the preclusions specifically say, you can’t conclude that all soldiers have the same rights, whatever those rights might specifically be. They might have the same rights or they might not have the same rights.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Unless you know what the preclusions specifically say, you can’t conclude that all soldiers have the same rights, whatever those rights might specifically be. They might have the same rights or they might not have the same rights.

 

[David_N]

I agre that our personal opinions should be our own business. But it's not surprising that a soldier has claimed this. If, in any way, you appear to be an outsider in the Army, there are sanctions, be they formal or informal. Atheism is a tricky area and doesn't sit well with the higher ranks.

 

[mattskramer]

I agre that our personal opinions should be our own business. But it's not surprising that a soldier has claimed this. If, in any way, you appear to be an outsider in the Army, there are sanctions, be they formal or informal. Atheism is a tricky area and doesn't sit well with the higher ranks.

So apparently there is a double standard. I think that the atheist then has grounds to sue unless, somewhere, it is written that Atheists and Christians do not have equal rights.

 

[David_N]

Typo

 

[David_N]

So apparently there is a double standard. I think that the atheist then has grounds to sue unless, somewhere, it is written that Atheists and Christians do not have equal rights.

Yeah, I agree with you on principal. It's just that, in practice, there are a lot of beliefs and opinions that don't hold equal weight in the military. i'd love to be an idealist, but can't.

 

[Shogun]

Answer the question, you run from it like a coward

Can I send you bawling back to the mods after your lecture on who runs from what? I tellya, you ARE the one guy who should be flexing in the mirror!




HAHHAH, always the refuge of a COWARD. Cowards like you line up on the internet because its the only place you can safely make personal insults and not worry.

As opposed to a weak minded fool whose only solace is to vent on the internet what their domestic restraining order bans then from doing to their significant other? Indeed, your post is not a minefield of irony!

safely, eh. Yes, dude.. you make the internet quake and tremble..





I dont know who that is. You are the only one who can understand or enjoy your own writings. I know you think you are clever, but the fact that you arent published proves you are the only one who thinks you are clever.


that im not PUBLISHED? uh, what the hell does that have to do with anything in this thread letalone this INTERNET MESSAGEBOARD? Did I mention that I was seeking to have something published or something? Was this supposed to be some kind of "im a tough guy" smack down? Are you choking anyone while you type this?

Maybe you can post a link to YOUR published work... Just so you know, ghost writing chic tracts isn't nearly as impressive as you think it is.


HAHAHHA, HAHHAHA, BWAHHAHAHAHHA, THAT PROVES HE IS A DIEST? JUST HOW DOES IT DO THAT?


The JEFFERSON library?



yea, dummy.. RUN with the idea that Jefferson wasn't a deist.. I mean, I only quoted the foundation that is the final authority on Thomas Jefferson. I don't expect a christian to understand the significance of facts so PLEASE continue with this line of rank stupidity.


If you say so, bwahhaha

God bless you, Jesus still loves you and the other fools and cowards.

your imaginary friends probably DO love whomever you tell them to love, dude. Chances are, however, that DFS won't buy this as an excuse for your domestic behaviour.


Im really enjoying this In all my years of posting, I havent had such and easy and enjoyable time shoving crap onto someone.

Gosh, SHOCKER that a meathead predator like you would find the notion of shoving people so enjoyable. I bet you enjoy kicking dogs too.

Indeed, nothing says "easy" like running to the mods and being bitchslapped by the Jefferson Library.



please continue!

 

[Shogun]

If he did READ A LITTLE BIT, it would be more than you have.

uh, profound statement there, predator...

did your PO tell you that joke?

 

[Shogun]

Yes they did. Read G Washington's writings, Franklin and more.

I have read Franklin and Washingtons writings. I especially love the part where Ole Ben talks about his secular Junta rather than hold meetings after church.. You know, where bullshit dogma gets in the way of enlightenment.






Its been answered, It was written LONG after the founding of our nation, so how can it prove anything about the mindset of the signers of the DOI, The COTUS or its precursor, written at the original Constitutional Convention.

LOOOONG after, eh?

yea.. SO LONG that a man who signed the DOI was the standing president!




But, hey, the DOI is LEGAL PRECEDENT, right bucko??




Holy shit this is too easy.

You, seriously , are really desperate. Is that all you got? Jefferson and the treaty>


HA!

indeed, the guy who just assumed that a person needs to be published in order to comprehend American history should probably be the FIRST person to call someone desperate!




Yea, mr. rule of thumb, I'll take the very words of the father of Jeffersonian Democracy, a ratified treaty passed within the first three presidencies of the nation that SPECIFICALLY address christian non-influence, the FACT of FF deism, Jefferson's edited bible version, post-enlightenment influence, chumming it up with Voltaire, and the very first Amendment to the Constituion over the word of some douchebag with an invisible friend and a nack for domestic violence anyday.


i know.. CARAZY people tend to put more value in evidence than dogma junkies jonzing for relevance. The world is INSANE like that.


the world must not be published or something!

 

[Shogun]

Ya know, I would be quite embarrased if I accused others of stupidity, yet repeatedly showed I cant even figure out how to click 'quote"


ahh yes... clicking QUOTE.. the FIRST indication of intellagence! You, sir, are clearly a rhoades scholar and must be published!




Hey, I'd be embarrassed if I had to travel to a third world country in order to lure a wife with the promise of a green card and clean tap water too but.. I guess such withered self esteem only manifests itself in like minded predators, eh buddy?

 

[Shogun]

IF YOU REALLY KNOW, THEN
Hey man, just tell M14 what his arguement is. You've spent ten times as much energy proclaiming you know what it is, than if you just said it.

I find it extremely satisfying that neither of you mental pussies want to touch the fact of the treaty and would rather hide behind the strawman of m14's "b-b-b-but, they capitolized the C!" line of silliness.

For real. It's probably NOT lost on readers that you both have spent just as much energy AVOIDING the treaty of tripoli as you accuse me of doing when anyone can scroll up and read where we've covered his goofy theory two pages ago.



Whats the matter, tough guy? Don't like it when people don't jump as soon as you stomp your foot like they do in Puerto Rico?

 

[LuvRPgrl]

IF YOU REALLY KNOW, THEN
Hey man, just tell M14 what his arguement is. You've spent ten times as much energy proclaiming you know what it is, than if you just said it.

I find it extremely satisfying that neither of you mental pussies want to touch the fact of the treaty and would rather hide behind the strawman of m14's "b-b-b-but, they capitolized the C!" line of silliness.

For real. It's probably NOT lost on readers that you both have spent just as much energy AVOIDING the treaty of tripoli as you accuse me of doing when anyone can scroll up and read where we've covered his goofy theory two pages ago.



Whats the matter, tough guy? Don't like it when people don't jump as soon as you stomp your foot like they do in Puerto Rico?

Yawnn.....

You really aint got much, not even good put downs.....

 

[Taomon]

example of when those rights were taken away when the person(s) did nothing wrong?

Dont give me examples of people using scriptures for their own ends. It will just prove you are either ignorant and or a liar, just like poor pathetic shogun. Jesus said you will be known by your fruits, and its obvious when people like those who carried out the inquisition, were not doing their deeds for God, but rather for their own greedy desires.

How many times have the scriptures been used to ask for money? Televangelism is a blight on our society is it not?

How many times have scriptures (More directly, Leviticus) been misquoted to demonize homosexuals and push people into violent acts against gays? There is that one reverend who is harassing the funerals of soldiers for that very reason.

C'mon, do I really have to give you said examples? Do you live in a void? Do you not read?

 

[Taomon]

Your dismissal of the DOA just proves that you must be myoptic and closed minded to keep your delusions alive.

Why dismiss the DOA? Its a valid legal document and showed the state of mind of the FF's, which is what we are trying to determine. Why can you use letters of Jefferson which arent the Constitution, then turn around and argue the DOA is meaningless because its not the Constitution.

In fact, the DOA carries much more standing in terms of representing what our country was, as it is a declaration of many of the FF's, if not all, while Jeffersons letters are merely one mans view, which is quite meaningless. The nation as a whole is a collection of many peoples values, not just one person named Jefferson.

You guys keep bringing up Jefferson because you got nothing else and its so weak, its pathetic

For one, Jefferson is the author of the Declaration of Independence. The state of minds of the Founding Fathers was that religion was necessary for society and they all loved God...and despised (mostly) the churches (Catholic and Protestant).

They came from a dominating Papal rule to come to America and Protestant churches were pulling some of the same crap as the Catholic church had done for centuries.

The God mentioned in the Declaration of Independence is the God of nature. The true God that everyone worships in one form or another is what they mention in the Declaration of Independence. They denounced any notion of and refused to write in any mention of a Judeo-Christian ideal of God because we are not a theocracy and America was not based on Judeo-Christian ideals...it was based on Reason and Ethics, no matter how much you Evangelical revisionist thugs try and claim otherwise.