atheist and christmas

[Avatar4321]

As I pointed out earlier Avatar religious scholars have questioned the beleif that Jesus was born on Dec 25th. Look it uo if you don't beleive me.

How on earth is that relevant? its obvious Christ wasnt born on December 25th. But its the day we celebrate his birth

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Well have you ever wondered WHY we would celebrate his birth on any day OTHER than the day of his BIRTH!!!???

 

[Avatar4321]

Well have you ever wondered WHY we would celebrate his birth on any day OTHER than the day of his BIRTH!!!???

No. The answer is pretty obvious:

1) History lost the exact date of His Birth
2) During the period of Roman persecution, Christians couldnt practice their religion freely. So since they didnt know Christ exact birthday. They decided to celebrate it when the others in their area were celebrating their own holidays and festivals. That way, they could worship freely and the Empire couldnt persecute them for it because it would look like they were simply celebrating the same festivals as everyone else.

You act like this information is somehow detrimental to Christianity. Like it somehow invalidates Christianity. You are incorrect. Its not the date that's important. Its the purpose of the day that is.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Yes and the PURPOSE of the day was to co-opt a holiday of PAGAN origin.

 

[amrchaos]

I have a question!!

Where in all of Atheism does it say that an atheists cannot celebrate Christmas or any other holiday on the Calender?

I have yet to see that in my copy of "the Great Holy Book of Atheism"... Has any other Atheism found that.

Nowhere on page one of that esteemed text does it say avoid others religious holidays!! How does it conflict with my religious beliefs.

Tell me!! I want to know what Froggy and the others are talking about. Give Gifts, sing Carols, read Christian stories and walk down the Street yelling "Happy Holidays" and "Merry Christmas" at the top of my lungs. Doing this does not defile my religion!!

 

[amrchaos]

My personal take on this type of thing, with my children when I have them (will probably have a wife that hates me for it):

1) I won't tell my kids santa is real, I dont want to lie to them
2) Same with easter bunny
3) Same with tooth fairy.

I dont want my kids to learn about deception and lies from me or my wife.

Actually, there was a Saint Nicholas that Santa Claus is modeled off of. No--an actual persone.

You can tell your Kids about Saint Nicholas. I think he is also the patron Saints of kids, If I am not mistaken.

 

[froggy]

I have a question!!

Where in all of Atheism does it say that an atheists cannot celebrate Christmas or any other holiday on the Calender?

I have yet to see that in my copy of "the Great Holy Book of Atheism"... Has any other Atheism found that.

Nowhere on page one of that esteemed text does it say avoid others religious holidays!! How does it conflict with my religious beliefs.

Tell me!! I want to know what Froggy and the others are talking about. Give Gifts, sing Carols, read Christian stories and walk down the Street yelling "Happy Holidays" and "Merry Christmas" at the top of my lungs. Doing this does not defile my religion!!

Lets think, you celebrate Christs birthday on Christmas, atheist don't beleive in christ, kinda hypocritic wouldn't you say. It ain't santas birthday, or do you want to be like some religions that change the bible to suit themselves.

 

[Smartt33]

Was Jesus the only one that was born on Dec. 25th of a Virgin?? Nope.. He wasn't.. In fact christians stole the entire story of Christ from Egypt..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH66MsrmE50

Just like many of the other stories in the bible, all ripped off from other religious texts and stories..

As for Christmas?? It is a cool holiday and an excuse for us to all go shopping.. But it has no religious significance.. It is just a day of giving and a day to spend with family...

Come on christians.. At least come up with something original for your god.. Did you have to rip off from Egypt?

The thing is that most Christians think that there were no real cultures before Christianity. Much as people beleive the CONCEPT of Democracy and freedom BEGAN with our country.

Get it straight people there have been MANY cultures and countries that lasted FAR longer than ours. There are some of the most incredible works of architcture that have stood for THOUSANDS of years. So in the grand scheme pf things we are an INFANT culture and we already show signs of a failing Democratic Republic.

Where in the world do you guys come up with this garbage? There was no December 25th before our current calendar. There is no documentation of any of the story told on that YouTube clip. The shame of it is that you will have people believing it. In the telling of it, you miss the whole truth.

 

[Smartt33]

Personally, I dont mind if non-Christians celebrate Christmas. Why on earth would I be offended if non-Christians acknowledge the birth of Christ? He is their Savior too, even if they dont realize it yet. I dont see how anything is hurt if they do celebrate Christmas.

I cannot recall any Christians having complained about non-Christians celebrating Christmas. Why is that even a question?

 

[Smartt33]

As I pointed out earlier Avatar religious scholars have questioned the beleif that Jesus was born on Dec 25th. Look it uo if you don't beleive me.

I personally don't know of any Christians who actually believe Jesus was born on Dec. 25.

 

[Smartt33]

Well have you ever wondered WHY we would celebrate his birth on any day OTHER than the day of his BIRTH!!!???

Could be because we don't know the actual date of His birth?

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Something tells me the Christians didn't steal the name. Just a hunch.

Why don't the atheists just invent a commercialized gift giving day in March or something? Paganfest?

It's called Oestara, LOL:


About Oestara

a guide to the Sabbat's symbolism

by Arwynn MacFeylynnd

Date: March 21-23 (usually, the date of the calendar spring equinox).

Alternative names: Spring Equinox, Vernal Equinox, Alban Eiler, Mean Erraigh, Eostre.

Primary meanings: Oestara is light and dark balanced, with light gaining power. It's the turning point from winter to spring. It is a beginning of the agricultural year, and its rites ensure fertility of crops and flocks; it is a time of planting, nurturing and growth. The God and Goddess begin their courtship now. Oestara was not originally a part of the Celtic year but was named for a Teutonic goddess of spring and new life, Eostre. The holiday was probably brought to prominence in the Celtic world by the Saxons.

Symbols: The hare or rabbit, eggs, seeds, potted plants, the New Moon, butterflies and cocoons.

Colors: Lemon yellow, pale green and pale pink, all pastels, robin's-egg blue and white.

Gemstones: Aquamarine, rose quartz and moonstone.

Herbs: Crocuses, daffodils, ginger, jasmine, Irish moss and snowdrops.


Can you say EASTER????

Pagans Celebrate new life!

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Ummm.. No.. The story of Horus is about 1000 years before Christ.. Try not to get your info from the bible..

Christ had a mother and a father too.. But that book isn't in the bible.. The Gospel of Mary.. You will find that in the Koran..

Gospel of Mary

The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene

The Gnostic Jesus


Current "Christianity" is the result of concurrence to consolidate power, where those who had the power got together and decided what they would tell a largely illiterate public. Later it became absolute power, up to and including the death penalty for not believing in exactly the right way!

Nicea

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Does the concept of time elude you completely? The Egyptian myths are older than the christian biblical ones, by at least a thousand years.

Not if you believe that Adam was taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ and taught His children and they slowly or quickly drifted away and changed the myths.

Just because they might be older than the Bible doesnt mean that they werent originall derived from preflood Christian teaching.

Its just a matter of perspective. thats all im saying.

Would you source that, please?

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

There are many mythologies in common among the Middle Eastern and Central Asian cultures:

THE FESTIVAL OF YALDA​

A brief history, and the traditions of the Festival of Yalda:
"... In Iran, the winter solstice has been celebrated for centuries and it is called Shab-e yalda, which refers to the birthday or rebirth of the sun ..."​

"... which refers to the birthday or rebirth of the sun ..." Or perhaps the birthday of the SON!!!​

Bactria, now known as Balkh: also is part of the equation that has taken us into history -​

Bactria - Geography, History, Tokharistan, Archaeological sites​

Map of Mesopotamia and Alexanrian Conquest area​

 

[Smartt33]

Christianity, the religion, came about as a result of the work of God in the people He created. It was created by men who followed in the Way.

The relationship with God in Christ came about by God's perfect plan which was finished in the resurrection of Jesus from the grave. That is what the people of the Way believe, and it is what counts. The religion is not something to place one's life and reputation at risk for. The relationship is.

God is far more than man can grasp. God knows that. Man is given light according to the light that they can receive. That is God's design. The true light is within the true follower of Christ.

 

[froggy]

Jesus Christ is the Lord God, and the bible is his word, translated into the KJ version.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Christianity, the religion, came about as a result of the work of God in the people He created. It was created by men who followed in the Way.

The relationship with God in Christ came about by God's perfect plan which was finished in the resurrection of Jesus from the grave. That is what the people of the Way believe, and it is what counts. The religion is not something to place one's life and reputation at risk for. The relationship is.

God is far more than man can grasp. God knows that. Man is given light according to the light that they can receive. That is God's design. The true light is within the true follower of Christ.

Source?

 

[Smartt33]

Christianity, the religion, came about as a result of the work of God in the people He created. It was created by men who followed in the Way.

The relationship with God in Christ came about by God's perfect plan which was finished in the resurrection of Jesus from the grave. That is what the people of the Way believe, and it is what counts. The religion is not something to place one's life and reputation at risk for. The relationship is.

God is far more than man can grasp. God knows that. Man is given light according to the light that they can receive. That is God's design. The true light is within the true follower of Christ.

Source?

Which part do you need a source for? In general, The Bible is the source I use. I believe it to be God's word. However, if you want to be more specific, I will try to provide specific chapter and verse. I think that is fair.

 

[Foxfyre]

As usual on a thread like this, I see well-intentioned people quoting the Bible as 'proof' for their beliefs, a 'proof' that is lost on those who do not believe in God and more especially do not believe the Bible to be the Word of God.

And I see well-intentioned people citing ancient pagan festivals as 'proof' that Christians made it all up.

The truth is that God/the Christ are real--those who experience that know that to be real and the only way it can be proved is from personal experience--and Christmas is a Christian festival to celebrate the initiation of that experience into the world.

Our own Fourth of July, Thanksgiving, Mother's Day, Father's Day, Veteran's Day, etc. could all be compared to other similar type celebrations in other countries or from other traditions, including ancient ones, and perhaps some aspects are even drawn from those other traditions. It is the conditioning of millenia of customs and traditions that make us want to have such celebrations or acknowledge special events in certain ways. Evenso, the celebrations as Americans celebrate become unique to Americans.

Not knowing the actual date of the birth of Jesus of Nazareth, the Church picked one to be an acknowledged festival/feast day and, because a winter festival had been the custom and heritage of many of the formerly pagan peoples, they picked a date near the winter solstice as the feast day to celebrate the birth of Christ. And they called it Christmas, a high holy day.

In some cultures, pagan customs of gift giving, decorating, and a festive celebration were incorporated into the celebration--in other areas, the occasion was kept solemn and worshipful and the more festive trappings were considered gawdy or inappropriate or sinful. The Puritans, for instance, would have been horrified at how most of us celebrate Christmas now. Still, the Christmas trees and lights and pretty packages and caroling and the more secular Santa Clause, reindeer, and other fictional images that have wound their way into our culture have become rich and fun American traditions, not to mention an economic boost for those who are able to exploit them.

I think it is shameful for some Atheists and other grumps and mean spirited types to attempt to destroy the tradition of Christmas and deny the majority the ability to celebrate it with all the myriad facets that have become part of the tradition. I think it is unconsionable to deny school children the right to celebrate Christmas by its own name, even to learn the majestic great music compositions that became part of the culture. I don't think it hurts the children of other religions or of no religion in the least to learn the traditions behind Christmas any more than I think it hurts Christians to learn the traditions behind Hannukah or other religious festivals.

I look for stores to shop in that wish me a Merry Christmas and I refuse to buy cards that say "Happy Holidays". I am not willing to give up beautiful and happy cherished traditions in the name of political correctness.