Atheism vs Absence of Faith

[☭proletarian☭]

Theists who are both well-informed (about the real universe, about human nature, etc.) and honest

Do not exist. By definition, such a being is impossible.

will generally admit that belief in the existence of a god requires FAITH, that is, the will to believe without insisting upon evidence or rational proof.

See what I was saying about the honesty bit?

Faith= ignorance and rejection of facts. It is the refusal to base one's position on facts and reason because you want to use an ideology to justify your actions.

I define "faith" as a certainty and persistence of belief [in the truth of a proposition] that is impervious to evidence and reason

I'm pretty sure the word for that is 'stupidity', actually. Like the Keynesians having faith that more stimulus and further inflation of the monetary supply will magically fix the economy.

. In other words, no amount of evidence and no form of rational argument will shake the believer from continuing to believe

Back to informed and honest, eh?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Smart?
A true independent thinker?

The Brights' Net - Home Page

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Doctrine? Is a doctrine always a religion?

I just do not believe in any all powerful supreme being or life after death.

Prove me wrong.

Do you claim to know that there is no such thing in existence, or do you merely not believe there is due to lack of evidence?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Theists who are both well-informed (about the real universe, about human nature, etc.) and honest

Do not exist. By definition, such a being is impossible.

will generally admit that belief in the existence of a god requires FAITH, that is, the will to believe without insisting upon evidence or rational proof.

See what I was saying about the honesty bit?

Faith= ignorance and rejection of facts. It is the refusal to base one's position on facts and reason because you want to use an ideology to justify your actions.

I define "faith" as a certainty and persistence of belief [in the truth of a proposition] that is impervious to evidence and reason

I'm pretty sure the word for that is 'stupidity', actually. Like the Keynesians having faith that more stimulus and further inflation of the monetary supply will magically fix the economy.

. In other words, no amount of evidence and no form of rational argument will shake the believer from continuing to believe

Back to informed and honest, eh?

It is what it is....it being my opinion

 

[uscitizen]

Most religions seem also to have gods impregnating earth women.

 

[uscitizen]

Doctrine? Is a doctrine always a religion?

I just do not believe in any all powerful supreme being or life after death.

Prove me wrong.

Do you claim to know that there is no such thing in existence, or do you merely not believe there is due to lack of evidence?

Lack of evidence. Well that and the bullcrap done in the name of god over the centuries by the believers.
If I saw conclusive evidence I would have to believe.
And just because man, life, the universe, etc exists is not any proof of the existence of god at all.
What human hands wrote on paper or told in tales is also not proof.

Like mankind with germs and disease. Ah ha disease is not caused by sinning or evil spirits.
That is proof, I can see those with a microscope.

I actually have a nice 1200 power microscope...

 

[☭proletarian☭]

You are, then, by definition, and agnostic atheist.

You also sound like a materialist and/or positivist.

 

[Diuretic]

I've seen several people perform remarkably impressive mental gymnastics to posit that atheism requires faith. That it's not an absense of faith, but rather it's own brand of religious faith.

If this is true, then what do you call someone with a complete absense of faith in God?

I haven't yet worked out why some religious people have to try and defend their beliefs by calling non-believers "believers in other things". It's a bit pointless. But I think I know why they do.

Too many atheists come across - probably not intentionally - as "you believe in God because you're frightened of death, I don't believe in God, I'm not frightened of death". Which is fine when you're a long way from your own demise.

And I think religious people don't like being called cowards. I don't blame them. They're not cowards, they just have faith.

For me at least it takes more courage to have faith than to not have faith, for faith requires the conquest of doubt and doubt is an ever-present gnawing worm in the believer's mind.

Those who overcome doubt though are in danger of ignoring the benefits of doubt and that's where those religion v science arguments flare up, but that's for another thread.

I have no faith. I'm not particularly proud of that, nor am I ashamed of it, it just is. I'm not brave. When I think of my own demise I get very gloomy and it takes a while to get out of that particular funk. I have to admit that I had been treated for major depressive disorder for some years so that might have something to do with the funk thing but it's not so bad now. I talk myself up and like any other rational human being put the thought of my personal end to one side so I can get on with living.

I sometimes wish I did believe. But I can't pretend I do and I won't kid myself that I do. I don't. I sometimes wonder about people who believe in a Creator because it just doesn't make sense, but again that's another issue.

Just don't call me a person of faith - I don't believe and that's that. I have no faith. I am faithless. I have no religion. I am agnostic only because I don't have the strength of will to be an atheist, completely of that mind that there is no Creator. I'm not having an each-way bet though, if there is a Creator He knows exactly what's going on in my mind (and hell knows it would take the Creator to work it out ).

So, enough of the labelling from the believers, please.

 

[uscitizen]

I am not too far from death, and I still do not believe.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I've seen several people perform remarkably impressive mental gymnastics to posit that atheism requires faith. That it's not an absense of faith, but rather it's own brand of religious faith.

If this is true, then what do you call someone with a complete absense of faith in God?

Dante.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I've seen several people perform remarkably impressive mental gymnastics to posit that atheism requires faith. That it's not an absense of faith, but rather it's own brand of religious faith.

If this is true, then what do you call someone with a complete absense[sic] of faith in God?

absense isn't defined yet, but these are close:



1. Granny Ass 29 up, 14 down love it hate it

buy granny ass mugs, tshirts and magnets
Granny ass - One with a severe absense of "Junk In That Trunk". It can often be traced back to the looks of an elderly womans hind quarters which may be flat and not what might be reffered to as "eye candy".

Man Steves new girlfriend has real granny ass

Urban Dictionary: absense

Dante?

 

[manifold]

absense[sic]




I noticed that too after I posted, but since I spelled it wrong in the title I didn't bother to edit.

Looks like I have a friendly mod cleaning up after my messes.

 

[Diuretic]

ab-sense - Muscle memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[amrchaos]

replying on world design Einstein said:

" God doesn't play dice",
"surely, we can never prove that he doesn't exist"!

You know, Einstein quote is attributed to his disregard to the fledgling science Quantum Mechanics. A science that is the basis for the advancement of modern technology--like transistors, computer chips and so forth! As strange as it sounds, Einstein did everything he could to disprove it, and instead found himself winning a Nobel prize for the Photoelectric Effect(Which sits in QM !). By the way, Einstein never disproved QM, which was a major thorn in Einsteins concept of reality.


Why did I tell you this? Because when people use this quote to justify something, they do not know what Einstein is referring to. Even worst, this is one of the few cases that the great Albert Einstein was shown to be wrong! In a sense, you are quoting Einstein when he was wrong, not when he was right. So next time, when some one says "God does nott play dice" let them know that they are not winning the debate with that statement.

 

[Dr Gregg]

Doctrine? Is a doctrine always a religion?

I just do not believe in any all powerful supreme being or life after death.

Prove me wrong.

I'd still like to hang on to the hope of life after death. Particularly I want to know all the answers to life, especially being a scientist that can't possibly know it all. But am convinced all religion is crap. Nobody has a clue

 

[Dr Gregg]

You want me to believe a bunch of stories written by a bunch of itenerent shepherds 5000 years ago are the basis for all truth, I will be very polite to you, and try and keep you away from sharp objects.

But the truth of the matter is, people need to believe in something, and the stories of a particular bunch of itenerate shepherds are less insane and stupid than the majority of stories folks believe in, so I will attach myself, sort of, to that group, by default.

As Chesterton noted, folks who start out proclaiming to believe in nothing wind up believing anything and everything a great deal worse.

Not even that, most of it was copied from other religions. Sumerians had the flood myth,the story of a man and woman and the tree of knowledge with a serpent leading them to not listen to god. The ancient egyptions had nearly identical story of a virgin birth, with names extremely similar to Mary, joseph add jesus.

 

[Anguille]

Doctrine? Is a doctrine always a religion?

I just do not believe in any all powerful supreme being or life after death.

Prove me wrong.

I'd still like to hang on to the hope of life after death. Particularly I want to know all the answers to life, especially being a scientist that can't possibly know it all. But am convinced all religion is crap. Nobody has a clue

I wish it were true that we get reincarnated. The thought of going to heaven doesn't do much for me but it would be nice to get all the things done in your next life that you didn't have time for in this one.

 

[amrchaos]

I think the arguement that Freeman and Newby is trying to make is to equate faith with belief. And thus there are no Atheists unless they can prove, without a logical doubt, that there is no god.



Well, until there is a well defined definition of god, I say God does not exist due to lack of definition. Therefore, not only do I not have faith, I have demonstrated there is no god because believers are too lazy to define him.

I admit there exist a little logical key here that unravels this argument. But that depends if you are actually reading.

 

[eagleseven]

If this is true, then what do you call someone with a complete absense of faith in God?

Pragmatic.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

replying on world design Einstein said:

" God doesn't play dice",

Not only does God play dice, but he sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen.
-Stephen Hawking.
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