Atheism vs Absence of Faith

[manifold]

I've seen several people perform remarkably impressive mental gymnastics to posit that atheism requires faith. That it's not an absense of faith, but rather it's own brand of religious faith.

If this is true, then what do you call someone with a complete absense of faith in God?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I've seen several people perform remarkably impressive mental gymnastics to posit that atheism requires faith. That it's not an absense of faith, but rather it's own brand of religious faith.

If this is true, then what do you call someone with a complete absense of faith in God?

Deep man...I gotta hang out with mary-jane first

Theists who are both well-informed (about the real universe, about human nature, etc.) and honest will generally admit that belief in the existence of a god requires FAITH, that is, the will to believe without insisting upon evidence or rational proof.

I define "faith" as a certainty and persistence of belief [in the truth of a proposition] that is impervious to evidence and reason. In other words, no amount of evidence and no form of rational argument will shake the believer from continuing to believe. I think that this is how "faith" operates or what "faith" amounts to in the religious setting. It's more than just courageous trust / acceptance of the universe, however it turns out to be. It's also more than hope or confidence or optimism.

So, according to my own definition of "faith," atheism is usually the absence of faith as well as the absence of a belief in god. Because usually, the atheist gets to the conclusion that gods don't exist as a result of adopting a consistently naturalistic mindset that looks for evidence supporting a proposition before agreeing to believe in that proposition.

Now me personaly I am what I call a Faithist. I do believe in a power greater than myself that I choose to call God however I do not believe in any of the religions that man has made surrounding a similar faith in a greater power.

 

[uscitizen]

Smart?
A true independent thinker?

 

[manifold]

I've seen several people perform remarkably impressive mental gymnastics to posit that atheism requires faith. That it's not an absense of faith, but rather it's own brand of religious faith.

If this is true, then what do you call someone with a complete absense of faith in God?

Deep man...I gotta hang out with mary-jane first

Theists who are both well-informed (about the real universe, about human nature, etc.) and honest will generally admit that belief in the existence of a god requires FAITH, that is, the will to believe without insisting upon evidence or rational proof.

I define "faith" as a certainty and persistence of belief [in the truth of a proposition] that is impervious to evidence and reason. In other words, no amount of evidence and no form of rational argument will shake the believer from continuing to believe. I think that this is how "faith" operates or what "faith" amounts to in the religious setting. It's more than just courageous trust / acceptance of the universe, however it turns out to be. It's also more than hope or confidence or optimism.

So, according to my own definition of "faith," atheism is usually the absence of faith as well as the absence of a belief in god. Because usually, the atheist gets to the conclusion that gods don't exist as a result of adopting a consistently naturalistic mindset that looks for evidence supporting a proposition before agreeing to believe in that proposition.

Now me personaly I am what I call a Faithist. I do believe in a power greater than myself that I choose to call God however I do not believe in any of the religions that man has made surrounding a similar faith in a greater power.

Well said.

And now to go off on a tangent three posts in...


Clearly you do not believe that Jesus Christ was/is what Christianity claims him to be.

So what do you think about Jesus Christ? Was he simply a truly pious and moral human being who was misunderstood? Was he an incredibly gifted con-man? Something else?

 

[Freeman]

1-atheism is a faith about conviction of god absence
2-theism is a faith about conviction of god existence
3-agnosticism is not a faith

unfortunately, the poor z'atheists are unable to proof their doctrine !!!!!!!

 

[uscitizen]

Doctrine? Is a doctrine always a religion?

I just do not believe in any all powerful supreme being or life after death.

Prove me wrong.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

You want me to believe a bunch of stories written by a bunch of itenerent shepherds 5000 years ago are the basis for all truth, I will be very polite to you, and try and keep you away from sharp objects.

But the truth of the matter is, people need to believe in something, and the stories of a particular bunch of itenerate shepherds are less insane and stupid than the majority of stories folks believe in, so I will attach myself, sort of, to that group, by default.

As Chesterton noted, folks who start out proclaiming to believe in nothing wind up believing anything and everything a great deal worse.

 

[uscitizen]

Chesherton is wrong in my case. Whoever Chesherton is.

 

[Freeman]

Doctrine? Is a doctrine always a religion?

I just do not believe in any all powerful supreme being or life after death.

Prove me wrong.

usually religion imply rituals, but it's not a condition.

deism is also a doctrine and faith

 

[rdean]

You can have "faith", just not in "magical beings from children's fables".

 

[Freeman]

replying on world design Einstein said:

" God doesn't play dice",
"surely, we can never prove that he doesn't exist"!

 

[editec]

I've seen several people perform remarkably impressive mental gymnastics to posit that atheism requires faith. That it's not an absense of faith, but rather it's own brand of religious faith.

If this is true, then what do you call someone with a complete absense of faith in God?

It depends.

If they're not out evangelizing for atheism, I call them nothing whatever.

If they're out there seeking to justify their atheism (AKA attempting to show their mental superiority) by calling out believers then I call them Evangelists for Atheism.

I don't happen to believe in the Santa Claus, but I don't go out of my way to correct people who do, know what I mean, Champ?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I've seen several people perform remarkably impressive mental gymnastics to posit that atheism requires faith. That it's not an absense of faith, but rather it's own brand of religious faith.

If this is true, then what do you call someone with a complete absense of faith in God?

Deep man...I gotta hang out with mary-jane first

Theists who are both well-informed (about the real universe, about human nature, etc.) and honest will generally admit that belief in the existence of a god requires FAITH, that is, the will to believe without insisting upon evidence or rational proof.

I define "faith" as a certainty and persistence of belief [in the truth of a proposition] that is impervious to evidence and reason. In other words, no amount of evidence and no form of rational argument will shake the believer from continuing to believe. I think that this is how "faith" operates or what "faith" amounts to in the religious setting. It's more than just courageous trust / acceptance of the universe, however it turns out to be. It's also more than hope or confidence or optimism.

So, according to my own definition of "faith," atheism is usually the absence of faith as well as the absence of a belief in god. Because usually, the atheist gets to the conclusion that gods don't exist as a result of adopting a consistently naturalistic mindset that looks for evidence supporting a proposition before agreeing to believe in that proposition.

Now me personaly I am what I call a Faithist. I do believe in a power greater than myself that I choose to call God however I do not believe in any of the religions that man has made surrounding a similar faith in a greater power.

Well said.

And now to go off on a tangent three posts in...


Clearly you do not believe that Jesus Christ was/is what Christianity claims him to be.

So what do you think about Jesus Christ? Was he simply a truly pious and moral human being who was misunderstood? Was he an incredibly gifted con-man? Something else?

Jesus was a man or an idea of a man. I'm not really sure who/what he was to be totally honest.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Oh and WTF is wrong with some of you? Did you even READ what manifold was asking?

 

[manifold]

Oh and WTF is wrong with some of you? Did you even READ what manifold was asking?

Edi sure didn't.

 

[Ravi]

Is believing atheism is a religion a matter of faith?

 

[editec]

Oh and WTF is wrong with some of you? Did you even READ what manifold was asking?

Edi sure didn't.

Editec was being honest but somewhat sarcastic.

It's is one of his primary character flaws.

He is also inclined to speaking ironically.. still another character disorder for which he pays a terrible social price.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Oh and WTF is wrong with some of you? Did you even READ what manifold was asking?

Edi sure didn't.

Editec was being honest but somewhat sarcastic.

It's is one of his primary character flaws.

He is also inclined to speaking ironically.. still another character disorder for which he pays a terrible social price.

Pilgrim is highly entertained by eds humoristic (bushism) 3rd person post

 

[amrchaos]

Hold it--wait

Let us not forget there are religions that do not posit a god and is not atheism.

For instance, Buddhistic teachings does not push the concept of God, nor does the concept of God appear in many Taoistic text. In these cases, one could have an absence of faith in God and still have faith.(In the cases were a text suggest Buddha is a god, or the "elements" in Taoistic teachings are gods, those work are usually created to for a western audience and are normally considered to be a misinterpretation of the original ideas. ) On the other hand, in order for Atheism to be a religion, one must turn "There is no God" into an article of faith. I think you can argue that this is such a case if one points that you must show proof that no god exist and the atheist can not provide a coherent argument.

(Proving or disproving god depends on the definition of what god is. This is a problem since many believers do not know what god actually is. I say this due to the fact that they change the definition of god after you show the original definition they propose is not possible. In other words, it is hard to disprove what no one can accurately describe. In these cases, I say god does not exist because there exist no exact definition of god. This only follow from the idea that existance of an object is forced to follow a logical and concise definition and the inexistance of an object only need to be shown that there is a logical flaw in its definition. And God has a logical flaw in its definition, thus god does not exist.

Of course there exist a flaw in this arguement. One need not know the full definition of an object in order for an object to exist. However, this cannot be posited by a theologian that claims she/he knows GOD. Which brings up the question, do theologians know god, or are they making up nonsense? Thus the basis of my "lack of faith"!)

On the other hand, an absense of faith can also describe Agnosticism. Although, agnosticism is more about doubting the validity of a metaphysical claim than stating it is true or false, it can also be consider an absence of faith or an absence of some faith.

In any case, it is an question of semantics. For instance, If one talks of the Christian faith, the majority of the world population has an absence of faith regarding the Christian religion. Approximately 80% of the world thinks that Christianity is bogus or way off base. Yet such a statement does not mean that Christianity is valid or invalid, but can be argued that 80% of the world believes that Christianity is not correct and therefore this is the shared article of faith of non-christians. The problem that exist here is that non-christians do not share the same faith. There are Hindus, Jews, Muslims, and so forth that actually make the claim "Non-Christians are all of the same religion" false.

Bottomline, faulty logic and the concept that There is no god is an article of fiath is what these theologians are argueing . It lacks merit

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I've seen several people perform remarkably impressive mental gymnastics to posit that atheism requires faith. That it's not an absense of faith, but rather it's own brand of religious faith.

If this is true, then what do you call someone with a complete absense of faith in God?

That would be an agnostic atheist.

The people you refer to can't comprehend the issue because they can't imagine anyone would be more honest than them and not assume to have god-like knowledge.