Atheism takes courage

[ChrisL]

What? What do you mean this outdated ancient book written by ancient men thousands of years ago which is wrong on many accounts is not even evidence for you to believe that your entire life and fate is up to the whims of some god??? Damn, that's crazy.

 

[Czernobog]

Every few months, I run into someone like you. Someone who thinks they're "different". They're not "religious". Oh, no! You have a "relationship", not a religion!

And I have to disabuse them of their delusion of particularity.

11 simple reality checks:

1. Worship a God that is invisible to the human eye? (Yes)
2. Have a Holy Book in which your God tells you how to live? (Yes)
3. Believe in an afterlife where you will be judged according to your beliefs, actions, and life choices? (Yes. If you claim otherwise, I can give you chapter and verse, in the New Testament. You either believe what is in the Bible, or you don't; that is up to you, but you can't claim to be a Christian, and not believe what is in the bible)
4. Believe that by being born into this world you were somehow afflicted with a disease called "sin, and that only your God is able to rescue you from this mortal affliction? (Yes)
   
5. Reject all other gods as false, with only your God being worthy of worship, and adoration? (Yes)
6. Pray to your God? (Yes)
7. Believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was your God that created the Universe (Yes)
8. Have complete faith that your particular holy book is the only one in which the written accounts can be trusted completely, and contain the will of your god? (Yes)
9. Attend regular gatherings arranged and led by experts of your particular belief system? (Yes)
10. Think its possible to know what your god's exact purpose is for your life, even though you cannot prove that he exists? (Yes)
11. Value having a "strong faith" above what can be learned from science and empirical observation, logic, and reason? (Yes)

Now, I would concede that you may dispute 9, and 11. perhaps you don't go to church regularly, and you may insist that you value science - although I could probably put that claim to the test, but we'll let it go for now - however, that still leaves the vast majority of those questions being "Yes".

So, you can call it a "relationship", if that makes you feel special, but what you follow is a religion, just like all the other theists.

And I have had many talks with people like you who think they are so much smarter and stronger than a person with faith...lol...


Ok... I enjoy a challenge

Worship a God that is invisible to the human eye?

1. Lets look at the 5 senses for instance..

Smell: You smell something that triggers something like hunger, love or calmness.. You can not see smell , but you know it is there because of what your body is telling you.. To some that part of the body is called our spirit, every single spirit and mind completely different with different experiences..

You can not see smell...

Hearing: You hear things like a car, your moms voice , music, that trigger emotion. You feel it but you can not see it..

Hearing is invisible

Touch:A blind person can touch a staircase railing and knows it will take them down a staircase ... or as an adult we know the stove is hot because we have been burned.

Touching is invisible

Taste:
Think about this next time you take a bite of something you love ... you crave it .

Tasting is invisible..

Seeing: ok since this is a visual let me put it to you this way.... Have you ever looked at someone while in line at a light, or grocery store even from behind them, and they look back at you.. ? Many can feel that with their spirit and turn to see who is looking at them.. Because we are all spiritually connected.. Try it sometime.

Now each one of these senses trigger the brain ( which have been proven by the way the brain lights up in scanning tests..)

Each one of these senses release hormones called dopamine in the pleasure center of the brain.

When a person experiences the Holy Spirit , it does the same thing to the brain and spirit. Just like the 5 senses that we cannot visibly see , we recognize what it is. And the longer that you have experiences with it, the easier you recognize it.

~
The Bible

A Bible is a guideline, like a dictionary to a writer. .. especially the New Testament.

But in many cases people exploit it to justify their hate, or self gain twist it around and make shit up.

~

With the afterlife : It says in the bible that we will be surprised who makes it into the kingdom, and who doesn't..

Again,the Bible is a tool, you don't have to believe word for word but if you look into some of the parables and dig deep ,their is usually a life lesson.
For instance "The Prodigal Son"
One son took off and spent his inheritance against what his father stood for...he became poor . The other brother stayed home and took care of business never spent a dime.
The broke son eating garbage was welcomed home without a mention of what he did.. The other brother got mad, and said he ruined his life why are you overlooking that..And the father said..
“‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

This parable is about loving us no matter how messed up we are..

~Praying is a meditation to quite the soul , it is a way of turning inward finding peace with something that is out of our control to fix.
And again like the 5 senses many can feel the spirit of God and the hormone dopamine is released into the body giving comfort.

~God in the universe

If you sit and really study your surroundings,the beauty, the art of a simple plant.. The body and the brain, the ocean and the in the universe this was not done by accident.. There is a master painter..
Not one of us on earth is the same.. perhaps identical in the flesh but not the spirit..and a big bang could not create the depth of what is within us and surrounding us

.~Christian Gatherings.. Have you ever met up with someone who had the same heart surgery as you? Or maybe talked to someone in the waiting room about their experience with your doctor..It is awesome to find that connection and is in many ways healing. You ask them about their experience or read up on that doctor..You trusted that this doctor with the knife going into your heart was not made by mistake, you studied and trusted him..
This is why we have support groups for just about anything


Value having a "strong faith" above what can be learned from science and empirical observation, logic, and reason

This is the most important question~

We are still pioneers in our study with the brain, we are still studying Frontotemporal lobar degeneration , let alone the Posttemporal and how we tick.

Perhaps they will find out in days ahead that those who have a spiritual connection use a part of the brain that we haven't explored yet.

Let me ask you this:

Show me where science has proven 100% that God does not exist?


.

You realise you didn't contradict a single thing i said, right? You only justified it - or, tried to, anyway. So, congratulations, by your own words, you follow a religion. So, please stop trying to pretend that you don't.

 

[ChrisL]

Religious people are more special. They have been "touched" by the God. They are saved and when they die, they will join God in Heaven forever. The rest of us are just shit on a shingle who will burn in hell. Lol. If you can't find the "faith" then you must be evil incarnate anyways. The devil's spawn perhaps. The hand of God has passed you over because evil and devils.

 

[ChrisL]

I should learn how to play the fiddle. It could save my soul.

 

[MarkDuffy]

What believers offer is experience.

Experience of what, hallucinations?

There is only the physical world. You all claim some non-physical, but that can interact with the physical. You admit it yourselves, it is all physical or there would be no interaction.

Experience of a reality, which you dismiss as "hallucination", which is used as a tool to end further discussion and thought expansion. Why try to stop discussion/exploration? Unless there is fear of what might be found? Isn't this acting like people who used to fear sailing too far out into the ocean would result in falling off?

There are two ways to react to exploration: The first is to fear it so much that one settles for what is. These are the settlers, whom you represent. The second is to actually step beyond the comfort zone and what is known, into the unknown. These are the explorers, represented by many believers. If you wish to settle, not a problem. It won't stop the explorers.

Believers are not explorers LOL! They go through life, learning nothing. They wait to be told how to think and what to believe.

There is a reason the Bible calls them sheep

 

[Czernobog]

Show me where science has proven 100% that God does not exist?


.

You see, this is why theism always, always fails. It relies on faulty logic to maintain its position. What you have presented is a Negative Proof Fallacy. That same fallacy can be used to defend any irrational position: Prove that an invisible and undetectable Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. Yes, Pastafarianism is an actual thing.

This is why one uses the Null Hypothesis for questions of this nature. God does not exist. This is not dogmatic. I am not married to this position. It is merely the default starting position. From here, I await objective, quantifiable, verifiable empirical evidence contrary to that position.

Now, angry, militant theists, like Meriweather, get angry, and aggressive, insisting that I am being unfair, because all of these mythical creatures for which I am asking evidence exist on some fantastic plane of existence that is not connected to the physical plane, thus there is no "proof" to be found, physically.

Here's the problem with that. This mythical God/Creator is said to have created this physical plane. (S)He is said to engage with this physical plane on a regular basis performing miracles. At least one religion insists that he physically walked among us, as a man.

So, clearly, if this extra-physical plane exists, there must be points of connection. As such, there should be empirical evidence that this plane exists. There isn't. See, it all comes down to a lack of evidence.

 

[Meriweather]

Believers are not explorers LOL! They go through life, learning nothing. They wait to be told how to think and what to believe.

There is a reason the Bible calls them sheep

In fact, believers are those that are ever willing to aim for the ideal instead of settling for "Good Enough." They are willing to consider the words of others instead of settling for what only their own thoughts and vocal chords produce. Ironically, the closed minds are saying they are closed minded in the name of science.

No one is asking you to believe in God. We are saying there are things that have been experienced by so many it makes it worth studying, pursuing.

 

[Meriweather]

Now, angry, militant theists, like Meriweather, get angry, and aggressive, insisting that I am being unfair, because all of these mythical creatures for which I am asking evidence exist on some fantastic plane of existence that is not connected to the physical plane, thus there is no "proof" to be found, physically.

) ) )

I'll bet you describe a soft, cotton ball as the roughest sandpaper. How very sensitive you are! People who know me and my views are going to get a great kick out of this! I appreciate you making me smile today. For you, I'll try to soften up even more.

By the way, I've never said you were unfair, that never crossed my mind. Do you believe you are being unfair?

 

[GreenBean]

Fairy Tale #1: In The Beginning.

So if I get this right, God (Mr. Yahweh) created the Universe 13.8 billion years ago but eventually got tired and bored with it. Fast forward to some 4.5 billion years ago and He added to His real estate empire by creating The Earth (as well as the Sun and the rest of the solar system). Ultimately He got bored with this hunk of sterile rock and so some 4 billion years ago He created little microbes for His amusement, but ultimately after a few billion years He got bored with them too - they weren't very good company or worshippers. So some 500 - 600 million years ago He upped the ante and created multi-cellular critters, and then other types of multi-cellular critters, etc., etc., etc, all of which also proved to be rather indifferent company and didn't worship Him either. What a bummer! Then at long, long, long last comes His "Eureka" moment (several million years ago) and He created those primate 'humans' and ultimately He evolved them into modern humans some 200,000 years ago. Bad mistake! To make a long temporal story even longer, He almost immediately thereafter regretted His creation of humans (and of multi-cellular critters too) and drowned nearly the whole lot of them. So much for His omniscience!

So it takes God a minimum of 13.8 billion years to get around to creating (and then nearly destroying) the alleged pinnacle of His creation (i.e. - us). How likely is that scenario? Damned unlikely for a real deity!

Atheism's Arguments Against God? | Closer to Truth

Do not confuse the 'scriptures' of primitive man with modern theism. Yes they are fairy Tales - and your point is ??

 

[Czernobog]

Now, angry, militant theists, like Meriweather, get angry, and aggressive, insisting that I am being unfair, because all of these mythical creatures for which I am asking evidence exist on some fantastic plane of existence that is not connected to the physical plane, thus there is no "proof" to be found, physically.

) ) )

I'll bet you describe a soft, cotton ball as the roughest sandpaper. How very sensitive you are! People who know me and my views are going to get a great kick out of this! I appreciate you making me smile today. For you, I'll try to soften up even more.

By the way, I've never said you were unfair, that never crossed my mind. Do you believe you are being unfair?

No. You just whined, and bitched because I was so insensitive that I keep asking for evidence. You want to wilfully ignore reason, and rationality, that's fine. But, don't then try to convince anyone what you have made a rational choice.

Don't piss in a cup, and try to tell me it's tea.

 

[GreenBean]

not a single shred of objective, observable, quantifiable, verifiable evidence.

See Biocentrism

Biocentrism is a philosophy, not a empirical evidence. "is an ethical point of view that extends inherent value to all living things." It is empirical evidence of nothing.

Uh ... no .... Biocentrism is not a Philosophy. It is a Sound Scientific theory from a renowned researcher.

Philosophy is a study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence. A Religion can be a philosophy based on belief that doesn't make it scientific. Theory is a system of ideas that is intended to explain something usually based on disciplined objective research. This is the key difference between philosophy and theory.




Robert Lanza, M.D. is currently Head of Astellas Global Regenerative Medicine, and is Chief Scientific Officer of the Astellas Institute for Regenerative Medicine and Adjunct Professor at Wake Forest University School of Medicine. His current research focuses on stem cells and regenerative medicine and their potential to provide therapies for some of the world's most deadly and debilitating conditions.

 

[Meriweather]

No. You just whined, and bitched because I was so insensitive that I keep asking for evidence. You want to wilfully ignore reason, and rationality, that's fine. But, don't then try to convince anyone what you have made a rational choice.

Sorry, I guess I got under your skin. To me it was simply a somewhat fun, interesting discussion. I'll leave you be, and I apologize for annoying you.

 

[GreenBean]

I rated your post funny because of your comment about "Pissing in a cup" I just know I'm gonna use that somewhere down the line

 

[Czernobog]

Fairy Tale #1: In The Beginning.

So if I get this right, God (Mr. Yahweh) created the Universe 13.8 billion years ago but eventually got tired and bored with it. Fast forward to some 4.5 billion years ago and He added to His real estate empire by creating The Earth (as well as the Sun and the rest of the solar system). Ultimately He got bored with this hunk of sterile rock and so some 4 billion years ago He created little microbes for His amusement, but ultimately after a few billion years He got bored with them too - they weren't very good company or worshippers. So some 500 - 600 million years ago He upped the ante and created multi-cellular critters, and then other types of multi-cellular critters, etc., etc., etc, all of which also proved to be rather indifferent company and didn't worship Him either. What a bummer! Then at long, long, long last comes His "Eureka" moment (several million years ago) and He created those primate 'humans' and ultimately He evolved them into modern humans some 200,000 years ago. Bad mistake! To make a long temporal story even longer, He almost immediately thereafter regretted His creation of humans (and of multi-cellular critters too) and drowned nearly the whole lot of them. So much for His omniscience!

So it takes God a minimum of 13.8 billion years to get around to creating (and then nearly destroying) the alleged pinnacle of His creation (i.e. - us). How likely is that scenario? Damned unlikely for a real deity!

Atheism's Arguments Against God? | Closer to Truth

Do not confuse the 'scriptures' of primitive man with modern theism. Yes they are fairy Tales - and your point is ??

 

[Czernobog]

No. You just whined, and bitched because I was so insensitive that I keep asking for evidence. You want to wilfully ignore reason, and rationality, that's fine. But, don't then try to convince anyone what you have made a rational choice.

Sorry, I guess I got under your skin. To me it was simply a somewhat fun, interesting discussion. I'll leave you be, and I apologize for annoying you.

You got under my skin? LOL! I wasn't the one who lost their shit because someone expects empirical evidence of your invisible Magic Man, in order to accept his existernce.

 

[Czernobog]

I rated your post funny because of your comment about "Pissing in a cup" I just know I'm gonna use that somewhere down the line

Thank you, thank you very much. I'm afraid I can't really claim credit, though. I actually heard a variant of it in SvB, and thought it was kinda brilliant.

 

[GreenBean]

Fairy Tale #1: In The Beginning.

So if I get this right, God (Mr. Yahweh) created the Universe 13.8 billion years ago but eventually got tired and bored with it. Fast forward to some 4.5 billion years ago and He added to His real estate empire by creating The Earth (as well as the Sun and the rest of the solar system). Ultimately He got bored with this hunk of sterile rock and so some 4 billion years ago He created little microbes for His amusement, but ultimately after a few billion years He got bored with them too - they weren't very good company or worshippers. So some 500 - 600 million years ago He upped the ante and created multi-cellular critters, and then other types of multi-cellular critters, etc., etc., etc, all of which also proved to be rather indifferent company and didn't worship Him either. What a bummer! Then at long, long, long last comes His "Eureka" moment (several million years ago) and He created those primate 'humans' and ultimately He evolved them into modern humans some 200,000 years ago. Bad mistake! To make a long temporal story even longer, He almost immediately thereafter regretted His creation of humans (and of multi-cellular critters too) and drowned nearly the whole lot of them. So much for His omniscience!

So it takes God a minimum of 13.8 billion years to get around to creating (and then nearly destroying) the alleged pinnacle of His creation (i.e. - us). How likely is that scenario? Damned unlikely for a real deity!

Atheism's Arguments Against God? | Closer to Truth

Do not confuse the 'scriptures' of primitive man with modern theism. Yes they are fairy Tales - and your point is ??

Dude, I am not a Christian and have written and co-authored articles that challenge the existence of Jesus. I believed in the Bible up till I was about 10 or 11 years old at most. It is primitive narrative that evokes political agendas of the time melded with nature worship, sun gods and even more primitive beliefs. I have no intent of defending it . You do understand the diff. between theism and bible thumpers do you not ?

 

[GreenBean]

I rated your post funny because of your comment about "Pissing in a cup" I just know I'm gonna use that somewhere down the line

Thank you, thank you very much. I'm afraid I can't really claim credit, though. I actually heard a variant of it in SvB, and thought it was kinda brilliant.

I just used it a moment ago on an unrelated thread

 

[Czernobog]

not a single shred of objective, observable, quantifiable, verifiable evidence.

See Biocentrism

Biocentrism is a philosophy, not a empirical evidence. "is an ethical point of view that extends inherent value to all living things." It is empirical evidence of nothing.

Uh ... no .... Biocentrism is not a Philosophy. It is a Sound Scientific theory from a renowned researcher.

Philosophy is a study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence. A Religion can be a philosophy based on belief that doesn't make it scientific. Theory is a system of ideas that is intended to explain something usually based on disciplined objective research. This is the key difference between philosophy and theory.




Robert Lanza, M.D. is currently Head of Astellas Global Regenerative Medicine, and is Chief Scientific Officer of the Astellas Institute for Regenerative Medicine and Adjunct Professor at Wake Forest University School of Medicine. His current research focuses on stem cells and regenerative medicine and their potential to provide therapies for some of the world's most deadly and debilitating conditions.

And his biocentric universe is not a theory, it is a hypothesis - one that has yet to be even tested. So, tell you what. You come on back with his little hypothesis, when it has had some actual verifiable, empirical evidence to support it. Until then, it is just one of hundreds of pseudo-scientific ramblings attempting to make superstition sound reasonable.

 

[Czernobog]

Fairy Tale #1: In The Beginning.

So if I get this right, God (Mr. Yahweh) created the Universe 13.8 billion years ago but eventually got tired and bored with it. Fast forward to some 4.5 billion years ago and He added to His real estate empire by creating The Earth (as well as the Sun and the rest of the solar system). Ultimately He got bored with this hunk of sterile rock and so some 4 billion years ago He created little microbes for His amusement, but ultimately after a few billion years He got bored with them too - they weren't very good company or worshippers. So some 500 - 600 million years ago He upped the ante and created multi-cellular critters, and then other types of multi-cellular critters, etc., etc., etc, all of which also proved to be rather indifferent company and didn't worship Him either. What a bummer! Then at long, long, long last comes His "Eureka" moment (several million years ago) and He created those primate 'humans' and ultimately He evolved them into modern humans some 200,000 years ago. Bad mistake! To make a long temporal story even longer, He almost immediately thereafter regretted His creation of humans (and of multi-cellular critters too) and drowned nearly the whole lot of them. So much for His omniscience!

So it takes God a minimum of 13.8 billion years to get around to creating (and then nearly destroying) the alleged pinnacle of His creation (i.e. - us). How likely is that scenario? Damned unlikely for a real deity!

Atheism's Arguments Against God? | Closer to Truth

Do not confuse the 'scriptures' of primitive man with modern theism. Yes they are fairy Tales - and your point is ??

Dude, I am not a Christian and have written and co-authored articles that challenge the existence of Jesus. I believed in the Bible up till I was about 10 or 11 years old at most. It is primitive narrative that evokes political agendas of the time melded with nature worship, sun gods and even more primitive beliefs. I have no intent of defending it . You do understand the diff. between theism and bible thumpers do you not ?

The difference is one of aggression. Theists still choose to operate on faith, as if it were a good thing. Faith is nothing more than the glorification of the suspension of reason, and intellect. You'll forgive me if I do not see that as a virtue.