Atheism takes courage

[edthecynic]

Life in the universe would not be possible if about 25 properties of the universe were even remotely different from what they are; as the matter is commonly put, the universe appears "fine-tuned" for life.

And if all those properties were different, what would prevent a different kind of life from forming "fine-tuned" for those properties???

 

[Unkotare]

Fear and nihilistic insecurity do not require 'courage.'

Who said they do? .....

The OP.

He clearly did not. ...?

It's clearly what atheism involves.

As clearly as Christianity requires you lying.
First of all, you lied when you claimed the OP said it. You were forced to admit it was YOUR interpretation of Atheism and not a statement of the OP.
You were actually projecting your own Christian fear of death.

1) The OP did say it. That’s what the words of the OP really indicate whether he wants to admit it or not.

2) I never indicated my personal faith

 

[Meriweather]

To this I'll give you a little anecdote. Earlier today on this board, I had a discussion were I made the assertion. That I hardly ever do an ad hominem attack and when I do it's in a direct response to an attack someone else does. I was completely convinced of the truth of that statement. I thought since I'm pretty rational, not easily insulted and by nature respectful that was a completely true statement. What I found since I was paying attention to it on the OP, is that I do. Not that I was throwing insults around, but my arrogance sometimes prompted me to give little needles to people who hadn't attacked me during the OP. I could have sworn that I NEVER did it but I couldn't even stop myself from doing it in a single OP. Does this sound familiar in any way? I suspect that it does. Your brain fools most people constantly. It does it to protect your self-image, it does it for comfort, it does it so you won't be sad. Point is that you ARE fooling yourself if you think your brain doesn't play tricks on you.

This is not an example of a fooling itself. It's a simple example of reality. We see it almost every day on the news these days where the President says something and some news organization takes it the wrong way and insists they can tell us what the President "really" meant.

The same thing happens on Internet forums all the time. One person says something, and the other decides it is something they can take offense with. Someone insists what another member "really" meant, when that idea never crossed that member's mind. Shrug. Sometimes the Internet is more like a window, and often what is seen is a reflection of ourselves.

Here's the deal. I'm a true cream puff. Therefore, when someone engages in an ad hominen attack, I know I've run into a fellow cream puff. Something I have said has struck them in a hurtful way. Doesn't matter that it was not my intent. From teaching PE I know that without any intent at all a ball can take a weird bounce and someone gets hurt. While no one meant that weird bounce, but the pain is just as real. Some can shake it off. Others can't and engage in an automatic reflex or intended/ad hominen attack. When that happens here it is my policy to apologize and move on because what my brain can't know is what else is going to hurt them.

I am here to learn and to have fun. If I am conversing with someone it is because I am learning and having fun--and because I think they are here for the same reason (which may merely be a reflection of myself). When I ruin this fun for someone (induce an ad hominem attack from them), my personal policy is to take myself out of an interaction I was enjoying. My penalty to self for ruining someone else's enjoyment, if you will. Being a self-admitted cream puff, this is done with sorrow and regret on my part--which is only right. I'll then try to tip-toe even more lightly the next time--should another thread present such an opportunity.

Anyway, nothing that happened yesterday was my brain fooling itself. It was a brain assessing what happened and me acting on that assessment. My brain knows my intent. What it cannot know is how my words were received, or what weird bounce they may have taken. My brain may not be in the habit of fooling itself, but on the other hand it knows so very little. It cannot even pick up when someone I am communicating with is growing a bit agitated. It takes one of those full-blown explosions (ad hominem attacks) for it to take note.

But back to when I think of, or relate, an experience of God and the assertion that it MUST be a clear example of the brain fooling itself. In fact, my brain recognized the temptation to make the event even greater or more than it was. My brain then reacted to reign itself in and make sure I only relate (even to myself) exactly what happened and withhold any conclusion that my small experience also proves all other assertions that are made about God. (Those assertions may well be true, but they weren't proved by my experience.)

 

[GreenBean]

We can't see radio waves - but we know they exist. We can't see atoms but we know they exist. We can't see dark matter but we know it exists. We can't see Gravity but we know it exists and we can't see time but we know it exists . and..

We know they exist because we can test for their existence. We have equipment that can measure them or expand our vision. For example, an oscilloscope allows us to "see" radio waves.

Edison's Ghost Box

 

[GreenBean]

I am an animal and all animals die eventually. Why is that so hard to accept?

But if you send me $50 every week, I will make sure you can live forever

All animals die ? Are you sure about that, I thought all dogs went to heaven. On a more serious note however - You don't know that for a fact, you can't prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt. You can't prove there is no such thing as a soul, but some researchers, [and not all of them are quacks], have demonstrated the possibility of a hereafter, reincarnation, yada yada yada

A theory from Dr. Robert Lanza states that death as we presently define it is an illusion ... The body itself does not generate consciousness, it lives on after the body dies. They have identified " microtubules " within brain cells ... theory goes on to postulate that the experience of consciousness as we know it is the product of quantum gravity effects in these microtubules.

Now 'rightwinger' I do realize that you only have a few brain cells to work with but perhaps you might be able to grasp some of the basics of biocentrism - Biocentrism

"You can't prove there is no such thing as a soul"

And you can't prove leprechauns don't collect stamps. So what?

I think it's more plausible to BELIEVE that they don't collect stamps ... they are coin collectors which they use to fill those pots of gold at the end of every rainbow

 

[Eaglewings]

In my own experience, I've found that a lot of supposedly "religious people" are real ASSHOLES. That has been my experience with some online religious fanatics. They are defensive, insulting and really quite jerky just because you disagree with their belief system. Just because you ask them some questions since they seem to know it all!

I find some christian people to be the most judgmental hypocrites who cause so much damage for those searching for God and even for those who are not..

.

 

[ChrisL]

In my own experience, I've found that a lot of supposedly "religious people" are real ASSHOLES. That has been my experience with some online religious fanatics. They are defensive, insulting and really quite jerky just because you disagree with their belief system. Just because you ask them some questions since they seem to know it all!

I find some christian people to be the most judgmental hypocrites who cause so much damage for those searching for God and even for those who are not..

.

It's certainly not just Christians, though we do tend to run into them more often than any others.

 

[ChrisL]

The type of mentality, "I am religious. I go to church. I study scripture. Therefore, I am a better person than you" . . . when CLEARLY they aren't a better person. It is VERY annoying to say the least. Lol.

 

[rightwinger]

Atheism does take courage

Most Atheists do not publically proclaim their non belief in God, myself included. I just go about my daily life and do not bring up my religious beliefs. Most assume I am Christian

Proclaiming yourself an Atheist enrages and insults most Christians. That is why they generate so many of these attack threads

 

[ChrisL]

Also, the "if you don't believe in a god, then you are a bad person" or "something bad must have happened to you or you must be mentally disturbed." I've even been accused of being a demon before on another website. Lol. I laugh and it does seem funny, but think of how dangerous that type of mind set can be.

I don't necessarily think it takes "great courage!" to be an atheist, but in a way when you don't conform then there are some who will gladly condemn you and get joy out of it as well. That's just the nature of humans, especially when their pride is hurt.

 

[ChrisL]

Then there are the ones who will accuse you of worshipping the devil or devils if you say you don't believe in god too. Well guess what? I don't believe in devils, gods, santa clauses, tooth fairies, ghosts, great pumpkins, or vampires either. While there are some experiences I've had that would be too easy to equate to something "supernatural", there are usually always more rational and logical explanations for most experiences, and those are the explanations I naturally gravitate towards.

 

[rightwinger]

Also, the "if you don't believe in a god, then you are a bad person" or "something bad must have happened to you or you must be mentally disturbed." I've even been accused of being a demon before on another website. Lol. I laugh and it does seem funny, but think of how dangerous that type of mind set can be.

I don't necessarily think it takes "great courage!" to be an atheist, but in a way when you don't conform then there are some who will gladly condemn you and get joy out of it as well. That's just the nature of humans, especially when their pride is hurt.

I would say that most Christians just let it go

But there are those who immediately associate you with the devil or a person of no morals or values.

 

[Eaglewings]

You really do not understand how logic works do you? So, what happens when I ask God for "the answer", and I get silence? Do I get to say God doesn't exist, then? Or did God just choose to ignore me?

Your answer sparked a question for me to research and sure enough there is a big difference in what part of the brain which signal neurotransmitters compare a believer in a higher power uses,compared to a atheist.. And I was happy to find these findings to show you..Empirical Evidence finds a big difference the way we look and respond to things are very differently with our brains.
Just as much difference as a left handed person compared to a right handed person, there is a big difference in a person who believes in God vs. one who doesn't. wow.. this makes a lot of sense

Now neither one is stupid and this shows why we just do not understand why the other comes to a different conclusion..

~
In these brain scans we do see how much of a difference there is..

"[We] evaluate what's happening in people's brains when they are in a deep spiritual practice like meditation or prayer," Newberg says. He and his team then compare that with the same brains in a state of rest. "This has really given us a remarkable window into what it means for people to be religious or spiritual or to do these kinds of practices."

Neurotheology: This Is Your Brain On Religion

 

[Eaglewings]

The type of mentality, "I am religious. I go to church. I study scripture. Therefore, I am a better person than you" . . . when CLEARLY they aren't a better person. It is VERY annoying to say the least. Lol.

I have argued with christian's for year online who have said to me that a biker can not be a christian...or the only person who can be a christian are the ones going to church wearing hats and dresses..

I could go on and on with so many funny stories..

.

 

[Eaglewings]

Also, the "if you don't believe in a god, then you are a bad person" or "something bad must have happened to you or you must be mentally disturbed." I've even been accused of being a demon before on another website. Lol. I laugh and it does seem funny, but think of how dangerous that type of mind set can be.

I don't necessarily think it takes "great courage!" to be an atheist, but in a way when you don't conform then there are some who will gladly condemn you and get joy out of it as well. That's just the nature of humans, especially when their pride is hurt.

I would say that most Christians just let it go

But there are those who immediately associate you with the devil or a person of no morals or values.

I studied the brain and addiction for years, so I have a little understanding of our complex brain..

This thread really got me researching on what is so different in the way we look at things..

I used to think even before this thread that atheists were just turned off into the spiritual part of life.. but I will have to say I was wrong..

I posted above just how different we do look at things with our brains

I never thought atheism was evil,but I do get really pissed off when they call christian's weak or stupid..and visa versa.


.

 

[edthecynic]

why wouldn't you just ask God if He is real reveal himself to you..

I did and he said he is not real.
He also told me he lied to you.

 

[Eaglewings]

why wouldn't you just ask God if He is real reveal himself to you..

I did and he said he is not real.
He also told me he lied to you.

Well I am glad that you heard back... and that you were able to hear His voice.

 

[Eaglewings]

To this I'll give you a little anecdote. Earlier today on this board, I had a discussion were I made the assertion. That I hardly ever do an ad hominem attack and when I do it's in a direct response to an attack someone else does. I was completely convinced of the truth of that statement. I thought since I'm pretty rational, not easily insulted and by nature respectful that was a completely true statement. What I found since I was paying attention to it on the OP, is that I do. Not that I was throwing insults around, but my arrogance sometimes prompted me to give little needles to people who hadn't attacked me during the OP. I could have sworn that I NEVER did it but I couldn't even stop myself from doing it in a single OP. Does this sound familiar in any way? I suspect that it does. Your brain fools most people constantly. It does it to protect your self-image, it does it for comfort, it does it so you won't be sad. Point is that you ARE fooling yourself if you think your brain doesn't play tricks on you.

This is not an example of a fooling itself. It's a simple example of reality. We see it almost every day on the news these days where the President says something and some news organization takes it the wrong way and insists they can tell us what the President "really" meant.

The same thing happens on Internet forums all the time. One person says something, and the other decides it is something they can take offense with. Someone insists what another member "really" meant, when that idea never crossed that member's mind. Shrug. Sometimes the Internet is more like a window, and often what is seen is a reflection of ourselves.

Here's the deal. I'm a true cream puff. Therefore, when someone engages in an ad hominen attack, I know I've run into a fellow cream puff. Something I have said has struck them in a hurtful way. Doesn't matter that it was not my intent. From teaching PE I know that without any intent at all a ball can take a weird bounce and someone gets hurt. While no one meant that weird bounce, but the pain is just as real. Some can shake it off. Others can't and engage in an automatic reflex or intended/ad hominen attack. When that happens here it is my policy to apologize and move on because what my brain can't know is what else is going to hurt them.

I am here to learn and to have fun. If I am conversing with someone it is because I am learning and having fun--and because I think they are here for the same reason (which may merely be a reflection of myself). When I ruin this fun for someone (induce an ad hominem attack from them), my personal policy is to take myself out of an interaction I was enjoying. My penalty to self for ruining someone else's enjoyment, if you will. Being a self-admitted cream puff, this is done with sorrow and regret on my part--which is only right. I'll then try to tip-toe even more lightly the next time--should another thread present such an opportunity.

Anyway, nothing that happened yesterday was my brain fooling itself. It was a brain assessing what happened and me acting on that assessment. My brain knows my intent. What it cannot know is how my words were received, or what weird bounce they may have taken. My brain may not be in the habit of fooling itself, but on the other hand it knows so very little. It cannot even pick up when someone I am communicating with is growing a bit agitated. It takes one of those full-blown explosions (ad hominem attacks) for it to take note.

But back to when I think of, or relate, an experience of God and the assertion that it MUST be a clear example of the brain fooling itself. In fact, my brain recognized the temptation to make the event even greater or more than it was. My brain then reacted to reign itself in and make sure I only relate (even to myself) exactly what happened and withhold any conclusion that my small experience also proves all other assertions that are made about God. (Those assertions may well be true, but they weren't proved by my experience.)

Well one thing is for sure, this thread prompted me to really search, which I had not ever before tried to understand. I just ignored the threads here because trying to understand takes much more energy than just turning the other way or insulting..

I learned a lot ...


.

 

[Czernobog]

I wish I could simply "turn off" my rational mind. Imagine how much easier life is for those who can, so easily, simply ignore all of the rational, logical flaws inherent in their faith.

So, believing in God, or a god, is not rational

No. It is not.

Life would be so much easier if I could just ignore that I know what I know, and pretend that there is a "happily ever after" that no one has ever confirmed.

I can not dismiss, rationally, what I can not deny

I cannot claim, rationally, that for which there is no empirical evidence. Anything that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

 

[ChrisL]

It just seems to me that the whole entire concept of god is a spoiled rich kid and we are his ant farm. Worship me or ELSE! I wonder if anyone would believe that to be possible?