"article 49 of the fourth geneva convention”.- Israels illegal theft of west bank land and sponsoring of thug settlers is illegal

[Sherlock Holmes]

Yes, I am aware of how the law works. The issue I have with opinions like this is that the decisions themselves run contradictory to existing treaties and customary law.

Every Judge is elected and confirmed for a fixed term by the Security Council which means the US voted for every Judge. That something "runs contradictory" to anything is a matter of opinion and clearly the Judges have a very different interpretation of things, it's their opinion that matters not yours, not Nazinyahu's, not Beelzebub Snotrich.

The danger here is permitting the UN to establish custom wherein it gives itself new powers to break treaties between States; tear apart the territorial integrity of existing States; reward acts of belligerence; negate the concept of peace treaties; create legal workarounds for such atrocities as sanctioned ethnic cleansing.

It is a very, very bad idea to permit the UN the power to dictate the behavior of States outside the law.

The ICJ is an integral part of the UN, it exists because of advocacy and support from member states including all of the permanent members. The UN reflects the interests and view of the members, it is based on democratic voting.

What do you mean then by "establish a custom"? the ICJ is doing what it has always done since the US and others set it up after WW2,

The ICJ case was brought by other members states (which is how the ICJ works) and they have been considering the complaints for two years and have now reached a decision.

The UN and ICJ are "permitted" to do what they do because that's what the members want, member states have rights at the UN and always have.

 

[Shusha]

Every Judge is elected and confirmed for a fixed term by the Security Council which means the US voted for every Judge. That something "runs contradictory" to anything is a matter of opinion and clearly the Judges have a very different interpretation of things, it's their opinion that matters not yours, not Nazinyahu's, not Beelzebub Snotrich.

The UN must operate within the scope of the law. Otherwise, we have a world body that is nothing more than neighorhood bullies picking teams for dodgeball.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The UN must operate within the scope of the law. Otherwise, we have a world body that is nothing more than neighborhood bullies picking teams for dodgeball.

Its the ICJ's role to tell us if Israel is operating within the law and it's found that they are not. The UN is operating as it always has operated. What's different is that the United States is losing influence and support.

 

[Shusha]

Its the ICJ's role to tell us if Israel is operating within the law and it's found that they are not.

The ICJ provided an opinion that Israel is not operating according made-up and imaginary standards that don't exist in law. That's the problem.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The ICJ provided an opinion that Israel is not operating according made-up and imaginary standards that don't exist in law. That's the problem.

Who's making these claims beside Israel, the Zionist lobby and the usual mouthpieces in Washington?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

 

[toomuchtime_]

The UN was founded by the victors of WW2, the US was the primary mover and shaker (look at where the headquarters are FFS), nobody forced the US to create and become a member of, the UN.

In fact, the UN was created by the US near the end of the second European WW to prevent the allied nations from signing separate peace treaties with the Germans and only later to be used by the US to try to prevent the Europeans or others from starting more world wars.

In all other endeavors, the UN has an unblemished record of failure, and the question is, can it be reformed to make it useful or should it be scrapped or will it just continue to fade away into irrelevance?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

In fact, the UN was created by the US near the end of the second European WW to prevent the allied nations from signing separate peace treaties with the Germans and only later to be used by the US to try to prevent the Europeans or others from starting more world wars.

In all other endeavors, the UN has an unblemished record of failure, and the question is, can it be reformed to make it useful or should it be scrapped or will it just continue to fade away into irrelevance?

I agree it has failed, it is forever compromised by the inequitable privileges granted to the permanent members.

 

[Shusha]

Who's making these claims beside Israel, the Zionist lobby and the usual mouthpieces in Washington?

Legal experts.

 

[Shusha]

View attachment 980489

If Palestine wants to secede from Israel, she must treat with Israel for territory and border delineation.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I agree it has failed, it is forever compromised by the inequitable privileges granted to the permanent members.

If not for that privilege and the enormous military power of the permanent members, the UN would not have been of any use in preventing more world wars.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Legal experts.

Can you show me some?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

If Palestine wants to secede from Israel, she must treat with Israel for territory and border delineation.

Says who?

 

[Shusha]

Says who?

International law. That's how it is done. Treaties, remember?

 

[Shusha]

Can you show me some?

Of course, but you will likely reject them out of hand for being "Zionists", without even investigating their actual claims. Start with Dr. Jacques Gauthier.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Of course, but you will likely reject them out of hand for being "Zionists", without even investigating their actual claims. Start with Dr. Jacques Gauthier.

I asked you "Who's making these claims beside Israel, the Zionist lobby and the usual mouthpieces in Washington?" and you present a source that's part of the Zionist lobby.

In 2019, the ISGAP received a grant of US$1.3 million, to be distributed over three years, from the Israeli government.

In 2020, The Forward reported that almost 80% of the ISGAP's funding in 2018, totaling $445,000, had come from the government of Israel, income which the think tank did not divulge.

Harvard professors Alan Dershowitz and Ruth Wisse were co-chairs of ISGAP's international board

Note that The Forward is a Jewish New Media firm that exposed this deception.

An American think tank [ISGAP] that studies Jew-hatred — including weighing in on when criticism of Israel becomes antisemitic — took a six-figure payment from the Israeli government but didn’t disclose it to the public or to the federal government.

Source: Wikipedia.

 

[Shusha]

I asked you "Who's making these claims beside Israel, the Zionist lobby and the usual mouthpieces in Washington?" and you present a source that's part of the Zionist lobby.

Entirely predictable that you would choose to remain ignorant, rather than investigate claims that don't match your preconceptions. If you were honest about learning and research, you would at least take a look at the claim, and argue the substance rather than putting your fingers in your ears.

If you don't like Dr. Gauthier, you could try Eugene Kontorovich or Natasha Hausdorff.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Entirely predictable that you would choose to remain ignorant, rather than investigate claims that don't match your preconceptions. If you were honest about learning and research, you would at least take a look at the claim, and argue the substance rather than putting your fingers in your ears.

I agree up to a point, I admit I am dismissing the claim without actually reading/listening to it. But we all do this, nobody exhaustively studies every single claim that is put to them, its a huge effort. Instead I employ a heuristic which is to not bother with claims emanating from special interest groups or governments. I have basic rules, and I'm sure its far from foolproof.

I am very confident too that if I were to study the material I'd likely be far from satisfied with it, it would be a waste of my time.

That's why I said not Israel, not Zionist apologists nor Washington mouthpieces.

If you don't like Dr. Gauthier, you could try Eugene Kontorovich or Natasha Hausdorff.

Kontorovich is an apologist, opposed to boycotting Israel and opposed to settlements, he's "helped" development of state legislation pertaining to the opposition of boycotts, enough said.

As for Hausdorff, the same, she advocates for Israel - that is Zionsim, she said

"I'm here in London on a 'mission' for Israel," she says in Hebrew, in an interview conducted mostly in English. "Israel is fighting the West's war for it."

So its clear she has an agenda, defend the apartheid state of Israel.

Zionism is everywhere, it has spread its foul tentacles all over the developed world, it decides what is true not facts, the lobby is the source of truth about Israel, it has weaponized the holocaust and antisemitism as it dares to tell us what to think.

 

[Shusha]

I agree up to a point, I admit I am dismissing the claim without actually reading/listening to it. But we all do this, nobody exhaustively studies every single claim that is put to them, its a huge effort. Instead I employ a heuristic which is to not bother with claims emanating from special interest groups or governments. I have basic rules, and I'm sure its far from foolproof.

Sounds suspiciously like an excuse never to read the claims of anyone on the Israeli side, because, by definition, they hold a "special interest".

I am very confident too that if I were to study the material I'd likely be far from satisfied with it, it would be a waste of my time.

Let me see if I can find an old post giving a summary of the claim, and the supporting documents.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Sounds suspiciously like an excuse never to read the claims of anyone on the Israeli side, because, by definition, they hold a "special interest".

Well it might appear that way, however thirty years ago I knew nothing, absolutely nothing and had a slight inclination to look favorably on the Jews in Israel given what I'd learned about the Third Reich and the Holocaust and European history.

Thus if news came on about "fighting in the middle east" my eyes would glaze over and I'd even sometimes mutter "those fucking terrorists" when Palestinians or the PLO were mentioned. It was always "Palestinian terrorists" causing problems, like Munich 1972, hijackings and so on, always "fanatical Muslims" but I knew very little, I had this view and it had developed all by itself despite me never studying anything about the middle east.

The "view" I held was of course manufactured and implanted into my mind by others, it was "they way" to look at things, it was "the way" the BBC and British press looked at things, it was "the way" British political elites looked at things.

Only later did I discover that the mere questioning of the standard view, was not approved of, the very act of being openly critical of some claim meant I was now just inches away from being called the dreaded "ANTISEMITE!". Let me tell you, being raised aware of the Holocaust and antisemitism made it very frightening to be called an "antisemite" it was a label nobody want to have applied to them and in my case it was a huge insult to me.

Nobody wants that said about them, it is a terrible thing to call a person, so it stifled conversation, few people were equipped to seriously challenge the claims of Zionists.

But it was self defeating you see, by reacting with hostility and threatening to shout "antisemite!" at every turn, they undermined themselves, their irrational hatred of being questioned, challenged backfired and I began to suspect something was off.

If I am actively discouraged from critical analysis then I critically analyze further, if I am finding myself in a minority then I understand why - fear. We this today with the Zionist lobby, they get people fired, destroy careers, destroy any and all resistance.

Let me see if I can find an old post giving a summary of the claim, and the supporting documents.

By all means.