Armenian Genocide

[ekrem]

A recent research by American historians claims that there was no Armenian genocide: there were brutalities against Armenians, but not at a large scale (certainly no 2 million deaths as some reports claim) and there was no previous planning.

how can 2 mio Armenians be killed when there were only 1,3 mio armenians living in Ottoman history ?

Many followers of these Ottoman-Armenians are living untill today in the whole world...

how does function mathematically?

 

[ekrem]

That's without a doubt, and to say the Armenians were not targetted with extreme vigor is BS. The Young Turks stood for Turkey, not Armmenian autonomy. All of Europe accepts this, it's time Turkey got over it.

In World War 1,

our whole Military Headquarter (general staff) was under German control as we were allied with germans and gave them military control over our whole Army.

Tese deportations were planned and organized by Military.

 

[TheEnemyWithin]

Two guys from System Of A Down were on Loveline a month or so ago and were pretty pissed about it...I, however, am still confused.

 

[Said1]

In World War 1,

our whole Military Headquarter (general staff) was under German control as we were allied with germans and gave them military control over our whole Army.

Tese deportations were planned and organized by Military.

So it was the Germans? It's funny how history books differ isn't it?

 

[ekrem]

Nobody was it when you say it was a genocide, please read the text of Professor Justin Mccarthy as i posted above in 3 parts. please do and know the facts

and read this when you say genocide.


Mr. Shimon Perez, Israeli Foreign Minister, during his visit to Turkey last year said on that subject that Israel rejects any attempt to create a similarity between the Holocaust and the Armenian events and that nothing similar to the Holocaust occurred. The Israeli Foreign Ministry, in its reply to the Armenian note of protest, confirmed this official position by stating that “the (Armenian) events cannot be compared to genocide”.
http://www.byegm.gov.tr/YAYINLARIMIZ/newspot/2002/may-jun/n9.htm

 

[ekrem]

Nobody was it when you say it was a genocide, please read the text of Professor Justin Mccarthy as i posted above in 3 parts. please do and know the facts

and read this when you say genocide.


Mr. Shimon Perez, Israeli Foreign Minister, during his visit to Turkey last year said on that subject that Israel rejects any attempt to create a similarity between the Holocaust and the Armenian events and that nothing similar to the Holocaust occurred. The Israeli Foreign Ministry, in its reply to the Armenian note of protest, confirmed this official position by stating that “the (Armenian) events cannot be compared to genocide”.
http://www.byegm.gov.tr/YAYINLARIMIZ/newspot/2002/may-jun/n9.htm

there have been 523.000 Turks sluaghtered by armenians. why the whole world does not talk of this?

Did Jews for example bought weapons to rebel against Germans ? did jews killed Germans?

Did Jews falsify something like:

"andorian Documents" "Talat Telegraphs"
"Hitlers Obersalzberg speech"

and so on and so on...


Armenians did and Turks slept.
Armenia has big Lobby in France and USA.
Turkey does not have.


I want to recommend you "Time Magazines" documantation "Blonde bride"...



Turks slept and giving Armenians decades of room to spread the whole world with these accusations.
Now turks are awakeing and deliver facts, not falsified.

Many Historicians are in our "National Archives" and exploring them, whilst Armenian "National Archives" are closed.


and read this
http://www.yektan.org/yektan_safak.html


this man is Doctor and duke of american University going to Armenia for exploring "Genocide accusations"...

He is in jail now.

Why?

Are Armenians afraid Historicians and Professors will find more falsified "Blue Book", "Andorian Documents", "Talat pasa telegrafs".


Armenia should make their "National Archives" open, and go to Court.
We are ready to go to everywhere: UN, Den Haag, where they want.

 

[ekrem]

Nobody has right to piss on turkish History. We are fighter nation (Attila, Timur leng, Mehmet the conqueror, Atatürk and so on)

But we do not make genocide.
In 15 th century all jews where kicked ass out of spain by spanish monarchy.

Turkish Ottoman Sultan, ordered many ships to spain takeing all Jews from Spain in our Empire.
Google for "Sephardistic Jews"


In 1930s many German Jews fled to Turkey because of 3rd Reich.
Ankara is built by Jewish German.
whole Jews boosted our Universities, our cultures.

There are furthermore rumours, which i do not want to comment, That Atatürk (Father of turks) was a Turkish Jew himself.



There have been killings. But it was no genocide.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Ottoman Tolerance. That's funny.

 

[Said1]

Nobody was it when you say it was a genocide, please read the text of Professor Justin Mccarthy as i posted above in 3 parts. please do and know the facts

and read this when you say genocide.


Mr. Shimon Perez, Israeli Foreign Minister, during his visit to Turkey last year said on that subject that Israel rejects any attempt to create a similarity between the Holocaust and the Armenian events and that nothing similar to the Holocaust occurred. The Israeli Foreign Ministry, in its reply to the Armenian note of protest, confirmed this official position by stating that “the (Armenian) events cannot be compared to genocide”.
http://www.byegm.gov.tr/YAYINLARIMIZ/newspot/2002/may-jun/n9.htm

I scanned the articles you posted an noticed they made not mention of any numbers or that the "Auspicous Event" was all lies. I might have missed it

And know this, I was not drawing a comparison between The Holocaust and Armenian genocide. And I could really give as shit as to what Shimon thinks since that makes what, two people outside of Turkey that support the Turkish postion on the matter.

I seem to have struck a nerve here, which is funny, since you basically pinned it on the Germans in another post. Why continue?

 

[ekrem]

this is not a funny thread to make comments about.

when you are interested in serious discussion i will appreciating it.
Thank you.

you have more than 8.000 posters. i do not want to make you angry or so, you seem to be a big man then here.
but please do not provocations.

as europeans where burning there witches and so on, we were healing them with turkish haschisch.

Ottoman empire was tollerant.
in Ottoman empire there were Jews, Christians, Muslims leaving side by side in peace.

Europeans in that time did not tollerate this in there own empires. by europeans there were no tolerance. you convert to Christ or get killed.


Jeruslame were over 400 Years Peace under Ottoman rule. living there Jews, Christians Muslims side by side.
Henry Kissinger said hisself in joke, best is giving Jeruslaem back to Turks to get rid with Middle East conflict.



Jews, Christians were priviligized in makeing trade.
They were not forced to go to army. They paid money and so they were free of fighting for Ottomans.

 

[ekrem]

I scanned the articles you posted an noticed they made not mention of any numbers or that the "Auspicous Event" was all lies. I might have missed it

And know this, I was not drawing a comparison between The Holocaust and Armenian genocide. And I could really give as shit as to what Sharon thinks since that makes what, two people outside of Turkey that support the Turkish postion on the matter.

I seem to have struck a nerve here, which is funny, since you basically pinned it on the Germans in another post. Why continue?

Said, there were Deportations yes. but remember turkey was at war in every 4 direction. English, French, Russian, Arabs.
We lost our whole empire.

We were allied with germans.
Google for Bagdad-Bahn (Trainway) financed by "Deutsche Bank"...

please google this. armenians were living in this area were Bagdadbahn build.

This trainway should guarantee German Empire to make stakes at getting Middle East Oil in this time...

Read Proffessor Mccarthy. Arabs rebelling, Armenians rebelling financed and equipped wih weapons by Russians.

This was danger for germans and there Bagdad-Bahn, as it went through Eastern Anatolia, where mainly Armenians lived.


And google it, OTTOMAN empire Miltary was under German control.
Military Headqurater were under German control.
German Marshals, Generals were in Turkey.

Last Ottoman sultan were puppet of Germans.


Wait, i will search for official German Government douments where you will see.

 

[Said1]

there have been 523.000 Turks sluaghtered by armenians. why the whole world does not talk of this?

Did Jews for example bought weapons to rebel against Germans ? did jews killed Germans?

Did Jews falsify something like:

"andorian Documents" "Talat Telegraphs"
"Hitlers Obersalzberg speech"

and so on and so on...


Armenians did and Turks slept.
Armenia has big Lobby in France and USA.
Turkey does not have.


I want to recommend you "Time Magazines" documantation "Blonde bride"...



Turks slept and giving Armenians decades of room to spread the whole world with these accusations.
Now turks are awakeing and deliver facts, not falsified.

Many Historicians are in our "National Archives" and exploring them, whilst Armenian "National Archives" are closed.


and read this
http://www.yektan.org/yektan_safak.html


this man is Doctor and duke of american University going to Armenia for exploring "Genocide accusations"...

He is in jail now.

Why?

Are Armenians afraid Historicians and Professors will find more falsified "Blue Book", "Andorian Documents", "Talat pasa telegrafs".


Armenia should make their "National Archives" open, and go to Court.
We are ready to go to everywhere: UN, Den Haag, where they want.

I don't think I'll be reading anything. I already feel like I'm going to vomit.

 

[ekrem]

you are free, not to read. but not reading is no discussion



then why we are writing?

we can disuss here with facts or leave it.

i disproved here all accusations, some with links, some with advice for google which are asy to find.

you do not want to question and blindly ake armenians view, then you will have to tell me..

perhaps someone else on this board is then willing to talk wih facts.

 

[Said1]

Said, there were Deportations yes. but remember turkey was at war in every 4 direction. English, French, Russian, Arabs.
We lost our whole empire.

We were allied with germans.
Google for Bagdad-Bahn (Trainway) financed by "Deutsche Bank"...

please google this. armenians were living in this area were Bagdadbahn build.

This trainway should guarantee German Empire to make stakes at getting Middle East Oil in this time...

Read Proffessor Mccarthy. Arabs rebelling, Armenians rebelling financed and equipped wih weapons by Russians.

This was danger for germans and there Bagdad-Bahn, as it went through Eastern Anatolia, where mainly Armenians lived.


And google it, OTTOMAN empire Miltary was under German control.
Military Headqurater were under German control.
German Marshals, Generals were in Turkey.

Last Ottoman sultan were puppet of Germans.


Wait, i will search for official German Government douments where you will see.

Made an error with the Auspicous Event, that was the Janissaries. I was going to say "stop telling me to google"

Anyway, the grand solution was to get rid of all the Armenians since they were a threat and couldn't be trusted to not kill Turks. Turkish historians have passed the blame onto the Germans, absolving the "Sultan" from guilt, why worry so much?

 

[Said1]

you are free, not to read. but not reading is no discussion



then why we are writing?

we can disuss here with facts or leave it.

i disproved here all accusations, some with links, some with advice for google which are asy to find.

you do not want to question and blindly ake armenians view, then you will have to tell me..

perhaps someone else on this board is then willing to talk wih facts.

You didn't disprove anything, you pointed out that there were active Armenian rebels, the Empire was surrounded and at stake and quoted Shimon Prez's opinon. So what?

I may need a refresher, but I don't need your google advice.

 

[ekrem]

said i have not forgotten you...

i am collecting material... please let us talk here with facts not

unproved accusations...

in turkey it is now 4:54 clock, but i will be back in some minutes.

 

[Said1]

said i have not forgotten you...

i am collecting material... please let us talk here with facts not

unproved accusations...

in turkey it is now 4:54 clock, but i will be back in some minutes.

Sure, I'm fixing my typos as you search.

 

[Said1]

Nobody was it when you say it was a genocide, please read the text of Professor Justin Mccarthy as i posted above in 3 parts. please do and know the facts

and read this when you say genocide.


Mr. Shimon Perez, Israeli Foreign Minister, during his visit to Turkey last year said on that subject that Israel rejects any attempt to create a similarity between the Holocaust and the Armenian events and that nothing similar to the Holocaust occurred. The Israeli Foreign Ministry, in its reply to the Armenian note of protest, confirmed this official position by stating that “the (Armenian) events cannot be compared to genocide”.
http://www.byegm.gov.tr/YAYINLARIMIZ/newspot/2002/may-jun/n9.htm

I think that was Bill Clintion's positon on the "issue" as well. He thought it would have could have a negative impact on U.S. foreign policy regarding the Middle East.

Google that.

 

[ekrem]

Sources:

Ministry of Culture
http://www.kulturturizm.gov.tr/portal/default_en.asp?belgeno=3346

SOURCES

1. Osmanli Belgelerinde Ermeniler (1915 - 1920) / Armenians in the Ottoman Documents (1915 - 1920), Basbakanlik Devlet Arsivleri Genel Müdürlügü Yayinlari, Prime Ministry State Archives General Management Publications, 1995.
2. Hüseyin Nazim Pasa, Ermeni Olaylari Tarihi / History Of Armenian Events, Basbakanlik Devlet Arsivleri Genel Müdürlügü Yayinlari, Prime Ministry State Archives General Management Publications
3. Arsiv Belgelerine Göre Kafkaslar' da ve Anadolu' da Ermeni Mezalimi / Armenian Oppressions in Caucasia and Anatolia In Accordance With Archive Documents, (Turkish and English), Basbakanlik Devlet Arsivleri Genel Müdürlügü Yayinlari, Prime Ministry State Archives General Management Publications, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998.
4. Armenians in Ottoman Documents (1915 - 1920), The Turkish Republic Prime Ministry General Directorate Of The State Archives Publication, 1995.
5. Kars Ili ve Cevresinde Ermeni Mezalimi / Armenian Oppressions In The Kars Province And Its Environs, Dr. Fahrettin Kirzioglu, 1970, Kars Turizm Dernegi / Kars Tourism Society.
6. Arsiv Vesikalariyla Tarihte Ermeni Mezalimi ve Ermeniler / Armenian Oppressions and Armenians in History In Accordance With Archive Documents, Mehmet Hocaoglu, 1976; Osmanli ve Sovyet Belgelerinde Ermeni Mezalimi / Armenian Oppressions In The Ottoman And The Russian Documents, Halil Kemal Türközü, 1983; Ermeni ve Rus Mezalimi / Armenian and Russian Oppressions, Erdal Ilter, 1999.

TOTAL : 517.955

 

[ekrem]

http://www.kulturturizm.gov.tr/portal/default_en.asp?belgeno=3346

UNDETERMINED NUMBER OF INCIDENTS

and you saying, Shimon Perez only saying, it was no genocide just because of foreign politics?