Armed Citizen Holds Burglar At Gunpoint!

[DriftingSand]

1) Crime rates went up with England and Australia banned most guns.
2) Not to brag ... but not so "tiny."

Uh, no, they didn't.
and yes, it probably is.

After Australia's gun ban:

Murders committed with guns increased by 19%.


Home invasions increased by 21%.

Assaults committed with guns increased by 28%.

Armed robberies skyrocketed with an increase of 69%.

Australian Gun Ban Resulted In Higher Crime Rates

 

[DriftingSand]

1) Crime rates went up with England and Australia banned most guns.
2) Not to brag ... but not so "tiny."

Uh, no, they didn't.
and yes, it probably is.

After Australia's gun ban:

Murders committed with guns increased by 19%.


Home invasions increased by 21%.

Assaults committed with guns increased by 28%.

Armed robberies skyrocketed with an increase of 69%.

Australian Gun Ban Resulted In Higher Crime Rates

I won't provide evidence of the other, greater topic.

 

[JoeB131]

Considering their violent crime rate is higher than the US (776 per 100k vs. 466 per 100k) your snark is unwarranted. They yobs there know their victims are going to be unarmed, and thus they can have their way until the bobbies show up.

But that's a horseshit number. Even this pro-Gun guy admits as much.

Dispelling The Myth Why The United Kingdom IS NOT More Violent Than The United States

United Kingdom:

“Violent crime contains a wide range of offences, from minor assaults such as pushing and shoving that result in no physical harm through to serious incidents of wounding and murder. Around a half of violent incidents identified by both BCS and police statistics involve no injury to the victim.” (THOSB – CEW, page 17, paragraph 1.)

United States:

“In the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Violent crimes are defined in the UCR Program as those offenses which involve force or threat of force.” (FBI – CUS – Violent Crime)

We can clearly see here there is quite a large difference in how both countries report and assess what qualifies as “violent crime”. The UK’s approach seems to be a lot more encompassing in scope and adds to its definition of “violent crime” offences which are not matched by its US counterpart. This raises the obvious question of whether UK violent crime rates can be said to be higher simply because things considered “violent crime” in the UK are not so in the US. One example is “assault”, all forms of which are considered “violent” in the UK, whereas in the US only “aggravated” is considered violent. A further example revolves around sexual offences, only “forcible” rape featuring in the US definition, while the UK definition includes rape and any and all forms of sexual assault.



Look, guy, if guns and prisons made us safer, we'd have the lowest crime rate in the industrialized world, not the highest.

 

[JoeB131]

1) Crime rates went up with England and Australia banned most guns.
2) Not to brag ... but not so "tiny."

Uh, no, they didn't.
and yes, it probably is.

After Australia's gun ban:

Murders committed with guns increased by 19%.


Home invasions increased by 21%.

Assaults committed with guns increased by 28%.

Armed robberies skyrocketed with an increase of 69%.

Australian Gun Ban Resulted In Higher Crime Rates

When you cite a group that is paranoid about the "New World Order" as a source, you are taking the train to crazy town.

Okay, here's something from Politifact,

Stephen King says since Australia cracked down on guns homicides by gun dropped 60 percent PolitiFact


We wanted to know: Have homicides by firearm in Australia dropped almost 60 percent? And did those "tough gun laws" do it?

‘It’s arithmetic, honey’

We asked King and Australian and American experts in gun violence for evidence.

By a few different measures, the arithmetic works. Homicides by firearm did decline after 1996 — in fact, had already been in decline.

One path to "almost 60 percent" comes from statistics compiled in part by Philip Alpers, a public health professor at the University of Sydney. The number of gun homicides fell from 69 in 1996 (excluding the 35 victims of the mass shooting prompting the laws) to 30 in 2012.

That’s a decrease of 56.5 percent.

 

[martybegan]

Considering their violent crime rate is higher than the US (776 per 100k vs. 466 per 100k) your snark is unwarranted. They yobs there know their victims are going to be unarmed, and thus they can have their way until the bobbies show up.

But that's a horseshit number. Even this pro-Gun guy admits as much.

Dispelling The Myth Why The United Kingdom IS NOT More Violent Than The United States

United Kingdom:

“Violent crime contains a wide range of offences, from minor assaults such as pushing and shoving that result in no physical harm through to serious incidents of wounding and murder. Around a half of violent incidents identified by both BCS and police statistics involve no injury to the victim.” (THOSB – CEW, page 17, paragraph 1.)

United States:

“In the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Violent crimes are defined in the UCR Program as those offenses which involve force or threat of force.” (FBI – CUS – Violent Crime)

We can clearly see here there is quite a large difference in how both countries report and assess what qualifies as “violent crime”. The UK’s approach seems to be a lot more encompassing in scope and adds to its definition of “violent crime” offences which are not matched by its US counterpart. This raises the obvious question of whether UK violent crime rates can be said to be higher simply because things considered “violent crime” in the UK are not so in the US. One example is “assault”, all forms of which are considered “violent” in the UK, whereas in the US only “aggravated” is considered violent. A further example revolves around sexual offences, only “forcible” rape featuring in the US definition, while the UK definition includes rape and any and all forms of sexual assault.



Look, guy, if guns and prisons made us safer, we'd have the lowest crime rate in the industrialized world, not the highest.

The guy in my article still found a higher number for violent crimes even AFTER he attempted to normalize the values. He dismisses the 4x - 5x number, but still finds a higher rate in the UK.

Your last statement is a simple attempt to validate your opinions from a simple man.

 

[DriftingSand]

1) Crime rates went up with England and Australia banned most guns.
2) Not to brag ... but not so "tiny."

Uh, no, they didn't.
and yes, it probably is.

After Australia's gun ban:

Murders committed with guns increased by 19%.


Home invasions increased by 21%.

Assaults committed with guns increased by 28%.

Armed robberies skyrocketed with an increase of 69%.

Australian Gun Ban Resulted In Higher Crime Rates

When you cite a group that is paranoid about the "New World Order" as a source, you are taking the train to crazy town.

Okay, here's something from Politifact,

Stephen King says since Australia cracked down on guns homicides by gun dropped 60 percent PolitiFact


We wanted to know: Have homicides by firearm in Australia dropped almost 60 percent? And did those "tough gun laws" do it?

‘It’s arithmetic, honey’

We asked King and Australian and American experts in gun violence for evidence.

By a few different measures, the arithmetic works. Homicides by firearm did decline after 1996 — in fact, had already been in decline.

One path to "almost 60 percent" comes from statistics compiled in part by Philip Alpers, a public health professor at the University of Sydney. The number of gun homicides fell from 69 in 1996 (excluding the 35 victims of the mass shooting prompting the laws) to 30 in 2012.

That’s a decrease of 56.5 percent.

Just the facts ma'am ... just the facts.

Australian Gun Ban Facts Statistics

Violent crime rose after gun ban in Australia syracuse.com

Australian Gun Ban Resulted in Higher Gun Crimes Not Lower

Crime up Down Under

 

[WinterBorn]

No gun deaths and an even higher murder rate. I am sure you would love that.

You get guns banned and you could say "See? Only a handful of gun murders!", while you ignore the fact that the violent crime rates went thru the roof. Why not? It is about the guns and not the actual victims.

Except that doesn't happen. You ban guns, murder rates go down, because human beings are basically lazy and don't want to put effort into something.

So all murders are gun murders and countries with gun bans have no murders? Interesting line of bullshit.

 

[WinterBorn]

LOL. I've owned a gun since I was twelve. There have always been guns in my home since my birth to the present time. I've hurt myself by stubbing my toe on a furniture leg or a pair of nail clippers several times but my guns have NEVER created a "hazard."

Wait ... I hear something. It sounds like wind whistling through your ears!!

Statistically, a gun in your home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy.

That has been debunked so many times.

 

[JoeB131]

The guy in my article still found a higher number for violent crimes even AFTER he attempted to normalize the values. He dismisses the 4x - 5x number, but still finds a higher rate in the UK.

Your last statement is a simple attempt to validate your opinions from a simple man.

The Conclusion of the artile.

While it becomes clear that certain types of offenses are marginally higher in the UK than in the US (robbery and knife crime being more likely in the UK by an order of 1.1x and 1.27x respectively) a number of other, more serious offenses, are both marginally and substantially higher in the US. Rape of a female is 1.02x more likely in the US, while theft of a vehicle is 1.29x more likely. More disturbingly, burglaryis significantly higher at 1.52x more likely to occur in the US. However, it is at the considerably more, well, violent crimes that America really supersedes England and Wales into its own class. In the United States, you are 6.9x more likely to be the victim of aggravated assault resulting in serious injury than in the UK. You are4.03x more likely to be murdered than in the UK. And more staggeringly (though not surprising) you are 35.2x more likely to be shot dead in the Unites States than in the UK. Before anybody asks, no, these do not take into account justifiable homicide and other “acceptable shootings”, nor do murders for that matter:

 

[JoeB131]

LOL. I've owned a gun since I was twelve. There have always been guns in my home since my birth to the present time. I've hurt myself by stubbing my toe on a furniture leg or a pair of nail clippers several times but my guns have NEVER created a "hazard."

Wait ... I hear something. It sounds like wind whistling through your ears!!

Statistically, a gun in your home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy.

That has been debunked so many times.

If by debunked, you mean, Stomping your little feet and saying, "I don't want that to be true!!!"

Hey, big clue that Kellerman was right on the nose. The NRA lobbied to make sure the CDC never studied this issue again.

 

[WinterBorn]

So unless a gun is used, a homicide doesn't count? The point is that with guns banned the criminals resort to other weapons. Luxembourgs effective murder rate in 2008 was 2.47 per 100,000. And that is without allowing any privately owned guns. That is much, much higher than Germany's. And Germany allows guns, albeit tightly restricted. They have 30 guns per 100 people. (The US, as a reference, has 88 gun owners per 100 pop.)

Okay, here's that whopping NON-gun homicide rate in Luxembourg.

2011: 4
2010: 10
2009: 5
2008: 8
2007: 7

Wow, they went crazy in 2010 and had a whole ten people murdered. by comparison, the US had 16,000 homicides.

The only way to make the comparison is by numbers per 100,000 in population. The population of Luxembourg is tiny. So the comparison is made via rates and not number of crimes. In fact, when someone else did that you went ballistic and called them stupid. Hypocrisy is still your strong suit, isn't it?

 

[WinterBorn]

LOL. I've owned a gun since I was twelve. There have always been guns in my home since my birth to the present time. I've hurt myself by stubbing my toe on a furniture leg or a pair of nail clippers several times but my guns have NEVER created a "hazard."

Wait ... I hear something. It sounds like wind whistling through your ears!!

Statistically, a gun in your home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy.

That has been debunked so many times.

If by debunked, you mean, Stomping your little feet and saying, "I don't want that to be true!!!"

Hey, big clue that Kellerman was right on the nose. The NRA lobbied to make sure the CDC never studied this issue again.

No, I mean the fact that the information that produced that particular claim has been debunked. I have posted links before that have shown that.

 

[martybegan]

The guy in my article still found a higher number for violent crimes even AFTER he attempted to normalize the values. He dismisses the 4x - 5x number, but still finds a higher rate in the UK.

Your last statement is a simple attempt to validate your opinions from a simple man.

The Conclusion of the artile.

While it becomes clear that certain types of offenses are marginally higher in the UK than in the US (robbery and knife crime being more likely in the UK by an order of 1.1x and 1.27x respectively) a number of other, more serious offenses, are both marginally and substantially higher in the US. Rape of a female is 1.02x more likely in the US, while theft of a vehicle is 1.29x more likely. More disturbingly, burglaryis significantly higher at 1.52x more likely to occur in the US. However, it is at the considerably more, well, violent crimes that America really supersedes England and Wales into its own class. In the United States, you are 6.9x more likely to be the victim of aggravated assault resulting in serious injury than in the UK. You are4.03x more likely to be murdered than in the UK. And more staggeringly (though not surprising) you are 35.2x more likely to be shot dead in the Unites States than in the UK. Before anybody asks, no, these do not take into account justifiable homicide and other “acceptable shootings”, nor do murders for that matter:

You then have to take into account the reporting rules in the UK, where they base most of their numbers on convictions, not reports.

And again, your numbers are far lower in the US if you are A) not a criminal and B) not a gang member. at that point your numbers approach those of the rest of the world.

The whole exercise is to figure out that comparing one country to another is more than an exercise in statistics. This gets even more complicated when you continue to throw out rubbish at us like Kellerman.

 

[martybegan]

LOL. I've owned a gun since I was twelve. There have always been guns in my home since my birth to the present time. I've hurt myself by stubbing my toe on a furniture leg or a pair of nail clippers several times but my guns have NEVER created a "hazard."

Wait ... I hear something. It sounds like wind whistling through your ears!!

Statistically, a gun in your home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy.

That has been debunked so many times.

If by debunked, you mean, Stomping your little feet and saying, "I don't want that to be true!!!"

Hey, big clue that Kellerman was right on the nose. The NRA lobbied to make sure the CDC never studied this issue again.

No, I mean the fact that the information that produced that particular claim has been debunked. I have posted links before that have shown that.

He won't listen, due to his stupidity and inner fascism.

 

[2aguy]

Joe....go to the Australia forum here at U.S. message...they had an entire thread devoted to the rape epidemic in Australia....because their women can't use guns to stop the rapes.....

Is that why you don't want women to have guns.......?

1. 
   Rape and Violence: Should Australia be ashamed?

Requested page cannot be found. NEXT!!!!

Dude.....go to the Australian forum on this site......it is there, I just copied the name of the thread....I'm not hiding it just pointing out the Aussies on this site have pointed out their problem with rape......due to their women being disarmed, that was my point not theirs....

 

[JoeB131]

The only way to make the comparison is by numbers per 100,000 in population. The population of Luxembourg is tiny. So the comparison is made via rates and not number of crimes. In fact, when someone else did that you went ballistic and called them stupid. Hypocrisy is still your strong suit, isn't it?

It's so tiny that it's statistically insignifigant. Otherwise the shift in 2010 to 2011 was that they reduced the homicide rate by 60%. Or that it rose 50% from 2009 to 2010. When you are dealing with numbers of single digits, you really can't get an accurate number.

 

[JoeB131]

Dude.....go to the Australian forum on this site......it is there, I just copied the name of the thread....I'm not hiding it just pointing out the Aussies on this site have pointed out their problem with rape......due to their women being disarmed, that was my point not theirs....

Murder rate in Australia went down by 60% after they banned guns.

Case closed.

 

[2aguy]

Here is a heart warming story....I don't think this woman was a navy seal.....

Armed Home Intruders Put Gun To Woman 8217 s Neck Quickly Learn They Made A Huge Mistake Concealed Nation

A woman was inside her Tennessee home Tuesday night when there was a knock on her door a little after 6pm. When she opened the door, she was greeted by two armed thugs who stormed into the home.

As they entered, one of the suspects pushed a handgun up against the woman’s neck. That suspect, identified as 22-year-old Nico Carlisle, was not yet aware of the huge mistake he had just made.

Right before answering the door, the woman had retrieved a handgun of her own and had it in her hand.

She quickly fired multiple shots, striking Carlisle in the process. When police arrived, Carlisle was found sitting hear the front door with multiple gunshot wounds. He was later pronounced dead.

The other suspect ran off and is currently being sought by police. It is not known if he was also hit by the homeowner.

The homeowner was not injured and is not expected to face any charges.

 

[JoeB131]

No, I mean the fact that the information that produced that particular claim has been debunked. I have posted links before that have shown that.

which were all bullshit, and I rejected.

Again, if Kellerman were false, then we should do another study of gun deaths and find out what the real number is.

 

[WinterBorn]

As in so many of his erroneous posts, he is reaching to some how justify his opinion against the fact. The real issue with nuts like him, they believe their own lies and justifications.

11500 is the established figure i've been using for years, and you guys only thought now to try to find other slightly different numbers if you cherry pick them right.

But, guy, 9200 murders with guns is still really bad when Japan only has 11 and Germany only has 258.

And Luxembourg, with no guns, has a murder rate that is 4x that of Germany. And without comparing populations, your numbers are just posted for shock value.