Arizona Senate Passes Bill Allowing Business Owners To Refuse Service To Gays

[Derideo_Te]

I can see the day when a same sex couple contacts the town bakery and finds out they no longer offer wedding cakes at all. Neither does the bakery in the next Arizona town over, or the one after that. They can go all the way to Phoenix to find an accommodating bakery and they won't deliver 200 miles away.

Sounds like a market opening to me. Being the only bakery willing to bake wedding cakes for all comers will mean big profits. Same thing for the photographers who are willing to do the weddings.

BTW I have yet to meet a wedding photographer so wealthy that he would turn down a lucrative wedding shoot just because the couple was gay. And if there was one that did refuse there would be a queue around the block of others willing to take the job.

Money talks...

 

[Iceweasel]

I suspect you don't know what Liberal means? It's not "nice", we throw revolutions remember, like the American one.

The founders were liberals? You've been smelling too many paint fumes. Liberals have safe rebellions, sitting in their stink in public parks, marching in liberal cities, making a big show but no real danger.

It reminds me of the leftist that wanted a reblellion during the Bush years (crying as they do) and when I asked him which side he thought was better equipped, he shut up about it and didn't bring it up again.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I can see the day when a same sex couple contacts the town bakery and finds out they no longer offer wedding cakes at all. Neither does the bakery in the next Arizona town over, or the one after that. They can go all the way to Phoenix to find an accommodating bakery and they won't deliver 200 miles away.

Then that would make them all equal now wouldn't it? And it would also make me open a wedding cake shop, no sexuality questions asked.

That would make them all equal, except that you know the baker will still be making wedding cakes. They just won't advertise the fact. That was the essential ruling in Elaine's Photography. If she did not advertise herself as a wedding photographer she would not have to perform same sex wedding photography services. There was no prohibition in her performing such services at all, just that if she advertised the fact, she had to perform.

Great. Now they get to add false advertising and fraud charges to the suit. Works for me.

 

[Katzndogz]

I can see the day when a same sex couple contacts the town bakery and finds out they no longer offer wedding cakes at all. Neither does the bakery in the next Arizona town over, or the one after that. They can go all the way to Phoenix to find an accommodating bakery and they won't deliver 200 miles away.

Sounds like a market opening to me. Being the only bakery willing to bake wedding cakes for all comers will mean big profits. Same thing for the photographers who are willing to do the weddings.

BTW I have yet to meet a wedding photographer so wealthy that he would turn down a lucrative wedding shoot just because the couple was gay. And if there was one that did refuse there would be a queue around the block of others willing to take the job.

Money talks...

You never heard of a wedding photographer that turned down business! And here we've been discussing Elaine's photography all this time. The whole point of being able to reject contracts that are morally reprehensible is that there are many others willing to take the job.

After my legal success in fighting off a lawsuit by a couple of lesbians wanting a portrait, the photographer that belongs to my art guild stopped advertising wedding photographer services. He had no shortage of wedding photography customers. He just stopped advertising that fact.

 

[Katzndogz]

Then that would make them all equal now wouldn't it? And it would also make me open a wedding cake shop, no sexuality questions asked.

That would make them all equal, except that you know the baker will still be making wedding cakes. They just won't advertise the fact. That was the essential ruling in Elaine's Photography. If she did not advertise herself as a wedding photographer she would not have to perform same sex wedding photography services. There was no prohibition in her performing such services at all, just that if she advertised the fact, she had to perform.

Great. Now they get to add false advertising and fraud charges to the suit. Works for me.

False advertising is when you advertise something that isn't true. There is no form of non-advertising that is false advertising. There is no form of failure to make a promise that means there was a promise that was groundless.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I suspect you don't know what Liberal means? It's not "nice", we throw revolutions remember, like the American one.

The founders were liberals? You've been smelling too many paint fumes. Liberals have safe rebellions, sitting in their stink in public parks, marching in liberal cities, making a big show but no real danger.

It reminds me of the leftist that wanted a reblellion during the Bush years (crying as they do) and when I asked him which side he thought was better equipped, he shut up about it and didn't bring it up again.

Yes the Founders were Liberals little friend. Learn American history. The Conservatives wanted to keep the King (to Conserve), we called them Tories then, and they fled to Canada in large numbers. Nearly all Revolutions are Leftist. When the Reactionaries throw one, like in Iran, it's usually religious in nature, like in Iran.

 

[Katzndogz]

I generally wouldn't either but I'll still buy gas from them and have them as clients. The local Christian bookstore doesn't keep me out, it would be stupid if they did, but if they knew the real me, they'd start collecting sticks for the fire. Remember, it's just business, that's all.

I don't think people understand how this works really. I can't say in every case but we can use Elaine Photography, the famous one from New Mexico and Sweetcakes by Melissa (Oregon) the other well known case.

The couples involved don't sue the baker, florist, photographer. In these situations the leave and go find another outlet. What they do is file a complaint with the State agency designated to handle discrimination cases under the States Pubic Accommodation laws. That agency then investigates the event and issues a preliminary ruling. If the business contests the ruling then there is a hearing before an Administrative Judge who makes their recommendation, then it goes back to the agency for a final decision. A ruling against the business can then still be appealed in State court. As we saw with Elaine Photography those appeals can work their way all the way up to the State Supreme Court.

By the time this has happened people, the couple's wedding has already occurred. What happens to the business is they are fined or receive an slap on the wrist to "go forth and sin no more" (pun intended).

The couples aren't going to be eating a cake by the discriminatory baker.



>>>>

You are correct. And good old Melissa and hubby have to sit down with the lesbians soon and cut a deal. Boy would I love to be a fly on the wall for that meeting.

No they don't. Melissa and hubby closed Sweetcakes and now has all their customers by private sales only. The lesbians really got what they wanted. They'll never be able to get ANYTHING by Melissa, not so much as a cookie.

 

[Desperado]

You have to ask why would someone want to spend their money in place they are not wanted?
Why would you order a meal from a place that did not want to serve you?

 

[Derideo_Te]

So I was listening to NPR today and Jan Brewer will be up the creek without a paddle if she doesn't veto this bill by Friday. There is a lot of money at stake and if there is one thing that Republicans will always put above their religious beliefs it is money.

She has 3 options.

1. Veto and keep the AZ economy on track while ticking off the TP'ers.

2. Sign the bill and deal with the fiscal fallout and economic mayhem that follows.

3. Do nothing and allow the bill to automatically become law and then deal with the fiscal fallout and economic mayhem that follows.

Historically option #1 is the choice that she will take. I suspect that she is going to go with option #3 instead and claim that it is all the TP'ers fault when the economy tanks and boycotts are the norm. Besides which the GOP needs a bad economy in order to win in November.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I don't think people understand how this works really. I can't say in every case but we can use Elaine Photography, the famous one from New Mexico and Sweetcakes by Melissa (Oregon) the other well known case.

The couples involved don't sue the baker, florist, photographer. In these situations the leave and go find another outlet. What they do is file a complaint with the State agency designated to handle discrimination cases under the States Pubic Accommodation laws. That agency then investigates the event and issues a preliminary ruling. If the business contests the ruling then there is a hearing before an Administrative Judge who makes their recommendation, then it goes back to the agency for a final decision. A ruling against the business can then still be appealed in State court. As we saw with Elaine Photography those appeals can work their way all the way up to the State Supreme Court.

By the time this has happened people, the couple's wedding has already occurred. What happens to the business is they are fined or receive an slap on the wrist to "go forth and sin no more" (pun intended).

The couples aren't going to be eating a cake by the discriminatory baker.



>>>>

You are correct. And good old Melissa and hubby have to sit down with the lesbians soon and cut a deal. Boy would I love to be a fly on the wall for that meeting.

No they don't. Melissa and hubby closed Sweetcakes and now has all their customers by private sales only. The lesbians really got what they wanted. They'll never be able to get ANYTHING by Melissa, not so much as a cookie.

They closed the shop, not the business, and you should really learn to read the news. Sweet Cakes lost. Now it's time to pay up.

Sweet Cakes by Melissa violated same-sex couple's civil rights when it refused to make wedding cake, state finds | OregonLive.com

 

[Bombur]

You have to ask why would someone want to spend their money in place they are not wanted?
Why would you order a meal from a place that did not want to serve you?

Have you ever tried to eat some place and have the owner refuse service based on who you love?

These people are harming others with their discrimination and I find that a much bigger violation of the Christian faith than gay people.

 

[Katzndogz]

You have to ask why would someone want to spend their money in place they are not wanted?
Why would you order a meal from a place that did not want to serve you?

So you could cause them trouble.

Why did two lesbians want me to paint their portrait after I refused? Did they think if they forced me I'd do a better job? It's academic because they lost and I hope it cost them a bundle.

 

[rightwinger]

Gov Boneyfinger will veto the bill and Republicans will let out a sigh of relief

 

[Bumberclyde]

I thought the homophobic state was Utah?

 

[Katzndogz]

You have to ask why would someone want to spend their money in place they are not wanted?
Why would you order a meal from a place that did not want to serve you?

Have you ever tried to eat some place and have the owner refuse service based on who you love?

These people are harming others with their discrimination and I find that a much bigger violation of the Christian faith than gay people.

No, but I have had people ask me to go to their wedding and I refused for various reasons.

 

[Bombur]

You have to ask why would someone want to spend their money in place they are not wanted?
Why would you order a meal from a place that did not want to serve you?

Have you ever tried to eat some place and have the owner refuse service based on who you love?

These people are harming others with their discrimination and I find that a much bigger violation of the Christian faith than gay people.

No, but I have had people ask me to go to their wedding and I refused for various reasons.

.... wat?

 

[The T]

You have to ask why would someone want to spend their money in place they are not wanted?
Why would you order a meal from a place that did not want to serve you?

It is the right and even a business decision of an owner of a business to serve clientele they wish to cater to or not. If their decision runs them out of business...then so be it. NO government has the right to make that decision for any business owner.

 

[Bumberclyde]

You have to ask why would someone want to spend their money in place they are not wanted?
Why would you order a meal from a place that did not want to serve you?

So you could cause them trouble.

Why did two lesbians want me to paint their portrait after I refused? Did they think if they forced me I'd do a better job? It's academic because they lost and I hope it cost them a bundle.

But 2 chicks together is ******* HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You have to ask why would someone want to spend their money in place they are not wanted?
Why would you order a meal from a place that did not want to serve you?

Because you're hungry and like the food. I don't care what faith the guy has when I need gas and he has it.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You have to ask why would someone want to spend their money in place they are not wanted?
Why would you order a meal from a place that did not want to serve you?

So you could cause them trouble.

Why did two lesbians want me to paint their portrait after I refused? Did they think if they forced me I'd do a better job? It's academic because they lost and I hope it cost them a bundle.

But 2 chicks together is ******* HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If they're young and cute.