I just noticed that a couple threads were already posted on this topic in the last few months. But since Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem just made an announcement yesterday, I figured I'd post a new thread.
I agree with what Thomas Massie, Catherine Austin Fitts and others have said about this. This is about control and it's just another way for our federal government to track legal citizens. Under the guise of immigration reform. But if people don't object, it's not going to stop there. Make no mistake about that.
I just found out recently, thanks to EvilCatBreath, that people who are in the United States unlawfully are allowed to board commercial aircraft without photo identification.
I did not believe this when I first heard it because it makes no sense especially with all of the hoops WE have to go through before being properly "deemed" a non-threat who is allowed to board, right?
Anyone else have any thoughts on the insanity of this policy or can explain why it doesn't make sense? I can, but attempting to do so further is no more effective than trying to talk to a wall.
Please, anybody?!?
Here's the entire conversation - you can ask your own AI assistant to verify the responses:
You said:
someone is claiming that illegal immigrants in the U.S. are allowed to fly on U.S. airliners without providing valid photo ID. Do you know what this is about?
AI said:
The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) requires all travelers to present valid identification at airport security checkpoints. While a government-issued photo ID is standard, the TSA has provisions for individuals who may not possess such documents, including undocumented immigrants.
Acceptable Forms of Identification:
The TSA accepts various forms of identification for domestic air travel, including:
- State-issued driver’s licenses or photo identity cards
- U.S. military IDs
- Foreign passports (must be unexpired)
- U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Employment Authorization Cards
For a comprehensive list, refer to the TSA's official guidelines.
TSA
Provisions for Undocumented Immigrants:
Undocumented individuals may not have access to standard forms of identification. In such cases, the TSA may accept certain Department of Homeland Security (DHS)-issued documents, including:
- ICE Form I-200 (Warrant for Arrest of Alien): This document indicates a civil immigration violation and is used by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) for administrative purposes. ICE
- ICE Form I-205 (Warrant of Removal/Deportation): Similar to Form I-200, this is another DHS-issued document that may be accepted. ICE
These documents are used to verify identity and are cross-referenced with DHS databases. It's important to note that these forms are administrative and pertain to civil, not criminal, violations.
Snopes
Identity Verification Process:
When travelers present alternative forms of identification, the TSA follows specific protocols:
- Database Verification: The presented documents are checked against DHS databases to confirm identity.
- Additional Screening: Travelers may undergo enhanced screening procedures to ensure security.
The TSA emphasizes that all travelers, regardless of immigration status, are subject to the same security screening procedures.
TSA
Recent Developments:
In response to evolving security needs, the TSA has implemented additional measures:
- Facial Recognition Technology: Migrants without traditional forms of identification may be required to undergo facial recognition scans to verify their identity against DHS records. Associated Press
Key Considerations:
- Legal Status: Acceptance of DHS-issued documents for identity verification does not confer legal immigration status or imply permission to reside in the U.S.
- Policy Updates: TSA policies can change; travelers should consult the latest guidelines before traveling.
In summary, while the TSA requires valid identification for air travel, there are provisions for individuals, including undocumented immigrants, to use certain DHS-issued documents for identity verification. These measures ensure that all travelers can be properly identified and screened, maintaining the security of air travel.
Sources
You said:
How can a person be properly identified if their documents don't have a photo? My drivers license has a description of me, sex (gender), DOB, race, height & weight plus my photo.
AI said:
Proper identification without a photo relies on alternative verification methods that combine available documentation, database checks, and physical screening. Here’s how this process works and why it can still meet security requirements:
Alternative Identity Verification Without Photo IDs
- Document-Based Verification:
- Even if the document lacks a photo, details such as name, date of birth, sex/gender, nationality, and other unique identifiers (e.g., immigration or case numbers) can be used.
- Examples include:
- Immigration documents like ICE Form I-200 or I-205.
- Birth certificates or Social Security cards (though rarely used for travel).
- Database Cross-Referencing:
- The TSA has access to Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and other government databases.
- When non-photo documents are presented, these details are checked against records in systems like:
- IDENT (a DHS biometric database).
- TECS (Traveler Enforcement Compliance System), which contains immigration and law enforcement data.
- Enhanced Security Screening:
- Travelers unable to provide photo ID may undergo additional screening, such as:
- Secondary questioning to corroborate their identity.
- Inspection of additional personal documents they may have (e.g., utility bills, work authorization letters).
- Thorough physical screening of belongings and person.
- Physical and Biometric Methods:
- Facial Recognition Technology: In some cases, DHS can use facial scans to compare the traveler to their photo stored in immigration or other government systems.
- Fingerprint Matching: For individuals with biometric data in government systems, such as those apprehended by immigration authorities, fingerprints can confirm identity.
Why This Can Work Without a Photo
- Unique Identifiers: Names, dates of birth, and document numbers are sufficient for database verification when linked to official records.
- Biometric Backups: For those in immigration systems, their biometric data (photo, fingerprints) is already recorded.
- No Security Bypass: The traveler is still subject to TSA's physical screening and behavioral checks, ensuring they pose no immediate risk.
How It Differs From a Driver’s License
A driver’s license provides instant visual and physical verification due to its photo and description (e.g., height, weight, race). When no photo ID is available:
- Verification depends on external sources, like database checks or biometrics.
- The process is more time-consuming and involves additional scrutiny to compensate for the lack of on-the-spot identification.
Concerns and Limitations
- Increased Security Risks: Without a photo, there's a greater reliance on external systems, which may be imperfect or slow.
- Privacy Issues: Biometric checks, like facial recognition or fingerprints, raise privacy and ethical concerns.
- Inefficiency: The process is less streamlined, potentially causing delays.
While a document without a photo is less straightforward for identification, the combination of detailed record checks, biometric verification, and enhanced security screening ensures that the person is thoroughly vetted. The TSA’s goal is to maintain air travel safety while accommodating individuals who may lack conventional forms of identification.
You said:
how long have undocumented individuals been allowed to use DHS documents?
AI said:
The
Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has permitted undocumented individuals to use certain Department of Homeland Security (DHS) documents as forms of identification for air travel since at least
December 2018. This policy allows individuals without standard identification to present specific DHS-issued documents, such as the
Notice to Appear (Form I-862), to verify their identity at airport security checkpoints.
American Military News
These DHS documents are used to establish identity and are cross-referenced with DHS databases to confirm the individual's information. It's important to note that this practice is intended to accommodate individuals who may not have access to traditional forms of identification, ensuring that all travelers can be properly identified and screened.
For the most current information on acceptable forms of identification for air travel, travelers should consult the TSA's official guidelines.
TSA
Sources
You said:
Which airports have the ability to have TSA do the following:"Physical and Biometric Methods:Facial Recognition Technology: In some cases, DHS can use facial scans to compare the traveler to their photo stored in immigration or other government systems.Fingerprint Matching: For individuals with biometric data in government systems, such as those apprehended by immigration authorities, fingerprints can confirm identity."
AI said:
The
Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is progressively integrating biometric technologies, such as facial recognition and fingerprint matching, at various U.S. airports to enhance security and streamline passenger processing. Here's an overview of these implementations:
Facial Recognition Technology:
- Implementation: The TSA is testing 1:1 facial matching by using cameras to capture a traveler's image and compare it to the photo on their identification document, such as a passport or driver's license. This method does not require a pre-existing database of images, as it directly matches the live capture to the presented ID. TSA
- Airports Utilizing Facial Recognition:
- John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK): Implemented Credential Authentication Technology 2 (CAT-2) for facial matching. TSA
- Los Angeles International Airport (LAX): In collaboration with airlines like Delta and United, facial recognition is used for identity verification. Condé Nast Traveler
- Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL): Delta passengers can opt for facial recognition for streamlined processing. Condé Nast Traveler
- Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport (DTW): Offers facial recognition options for passengers. Condé Nast Traveler
- LaGuardia Airport (LGA): Participates in facial recognition programs with certain airlines. Condé Nast Traveler
- O’Hare International Airport (ORD): United Airlines utilizes facial recognition for passenger verification. Condé Nast Traveler
- Expansion Plans: The TSA plans to extend facial recognition technology to approximately 430 U.S. airports over the coming years. The Verge
Fingerprint Matching:
- Current Use: Fingerprint collection is standard for most international travelers entering the U.S., primarily managed by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) at ports of entry. Simple Flying
- TSA Initiatives: The TSA is exploring the use of fingerprint technology for identity verification at security checkpoints, often in partnership with CBP. TSA
Privacy and Opt-Out Options:
- Voluntary Participation: Travelers can choose whether to participate in biometric screening programs. Those who prefer not to use facial recognition or fingerprint matching can opt for traditional identification methods. Associated Press
- Data Handling: The TSA asserts that images captured during the biometric process are not stored and are used solely for immediate identity verification. TSA
Considerations:
- Accuracy and Security: The TSA is committed to ensuring the accuracy of biometric systems to enhance security and efficiency in passenger processing. Thrifty Traveler
- Privacy Concerns: The expansion of biometric technologies has raised privacy issues, prompting calls for thorough evaluations and oversight. Biometric Update
In summary, the TSA is actively deploying facial recognition and fingerprint matching technologies at select airports, with plans for broader implementation. These initiatives aim to bolster security and expedite the travel experience, while providing passengers with the option to opt out if they have privacy concerns.
Sources
You said:
and how long has TSA been allowing undocumented migrants to fly on our commercial airlines utilizing DHS documentation without photo IDs
AI said:
The
Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has permitted undocumented individuals to use certain Department of Homeland Security (DHS) documents without photo identification for air travel since at least
December 2018. This policy allows individuals without standard forms of identification to present specific DHS-issued documents, such as the
Notice to Appear (Form I-862), to verify their identity at airport security checkpoints.
American Military News
These DHS documents are used to establish identity and are cross-referenced with DHS databases to confirm the individual's information. This practice ensures that all travelers can be properly identified and screened, even if they lack traditional forms of identification.
For the most current information on acceptable forms of identification for air travel, travelers should consult the TSA's official guidelines.
TSA
Sources
You said:
when an order or summons to appear is issued to an undocumented migrant are they fingerprinted & photographed?
AI said:
When undocumented migrants are issued a
Notice to Appear (NTA), the procedures for fingerprinting and photographing depend on their custody status and the specific circumstances of their case.
1. Individuals in Custody:
- Standard Procedure: Migrants detained by immigration authorities are typically fingerprinted and photographed during processing.
- Purpose: These biometrics are used to verify identity, check criminal backgrounds, and maintain records.
2. Individuals Not in Custody:
- Issuance of NTA: Some migrants receive an NTA without being detained, especially if they are apprehended at the border and then released.
- Biometrics Collection: If not previously collected, these individuals are usually required to attend a biometrics appointment at a USCIS Application Support Center (ASC).
- Process: They receive an ASC notice with instructions to appear for fingerprinting, photographing, and providing a signature.
- Documentation: After the appointment, individuals receive a biometrics confirmation document, which they must bring to future immigration court hearings. ICE
3. Special Cases:
- Deferred Inspection: In situations where admissibility cannot be determined at the port of entry, an individual may be scheduled for a deferred inspection.
- Procedure: During deferred inspection, the individual is typically photographed and fingerprinted using Form FD-249. Wikipedia
Key Points:
- Mandatory Biometrics: Regardless of detention status, undocumented migrants issued an NTA are generally required to undergo fingerprinting and photographing.
- Compliance: Attending the biometrics appointment is crucial. Failure to comply can lead to delays or dismissal of applications.
- Record-Keeping: These procedures ensure that accurate records are maintained for individuals in immigration proceedings.
In summary, undocumented migrants issued an NTA are subject to fingerprinting and photographing, either during initial processing if detained or through scheduled biometrics appointments if released. These steps are essential for identity verification and the progression of immigration proceedings.
Sources
You said:
you previously mention two DHS documents that an undocumented migrant can use as identification to board a commercial aircraft in the U.S. Are these the only two and is the person fingerprinted & photographer at the time these documents are issued?"Immigration documents like ICE Form I-200 or I-205."
AI said:
The
Transportation Security Administration (TSA) accepts various forms of identification for air travel, including certain Department of Homeland Security (DHS) documents. While
ICE Form I-200 (Warrant for Arrest of Alien) and
ICE Form I-205 (Warrant of Removal/Deportation) are among the DHS-issued documents that may be used, they are not the only ones. Other acceptable forms include:
- Employment Authorization Card (Form I-766): Issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), this card includes a photograph and serves as proof of authorization to work in the U.S.
- Border Crossing Card: Issued to certain Mexican citizens, this card allows entry into the U.S. and includes a photograph.
- Foreign Passports: Must be unexpired and are commonly used by non-U.S. citizens for identification.
Regarding biometrics collection, individuals issued
ICE Forms I-200 or I-205 are typically fingerprinted and photographed during the processing stage, especially if they are taken into custody. For those not immediately detained, biometrics are usually collected during scheduled appointments at Application Support Centers (ASCs). This ensures that accurate records are maintained for identity verification purposes.
For the most current information on acceptable forms of identification for air travel, travelers should consult the TSA's official guidelines.
Transportation Security Administration
Sources
You said:
the last three examples you cited - Employment Auth Card, Border Crossing Card & Foreign passport all indicate that the person is in the country lawfully. I'm solely interested in individuals who have not entered legally and are given a summons to appear in court and then released. Are these individuals subject to the ICE form i-200 & i-205 - in other words are they the same thing?
AI said:
Individuals who are apprehended for being in the U.S. unlawfully and are released with a
summons to appear in court may receive various DHS-issued documents depending on the circumstances of their apprehension and release. Here's a breakdown of how
Form I-200 and
Form I-205 are used and whether they apply to these cases:
ICE Forms I-200 and I-205
- Form I-200 (Warrant for Arrest of Alien):
- Purpose: Issued by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to initiate the detention of a person suspected of violating immigration laws.
- Use: Typically applies when a person is taken into custody or during enforcement actions, such as raids.
- Biometrics Collection:
- Individuals issued this form are generally detained, at least temporarily, and fingerprinted and photographed as part of ICE's standard intake process.
- Relevance to Released Individuals:
- Not typically given to individuals released with a court summons unless they were initially detained and later released.
- Form I-205 (Warrant of Removal/Deportation):
- Purpose: Issued when an individual is ordered deported or removed by an immigration judge or after voluntary departure.
- Use: Relevant at the end of removal proceedings, not during the initial apprehension or release with a summons.
- Biometrics Collection:
- Similar to Form I-200, biometrics are usually collected when this form is issued, as it accompanies deportation processing.
- Relevance to Released Individuals:
- This form is not applicable to individuals merely summoned to appear in immigration court and released.
Documents Commonly Issued to Released Individuals
For individuals apprehended for unlawful entry and subsequently released:
- Notice to Appear (NTA, Form I-862):
- Purpose: A summons to appear in immigration court to begin removal proceedings.
- Biometrics Collection:
- If the individual is detained or processed at an ICE facility, they are fingerprinted and photographed before release.
- If not immediately detained, they are typically scheduled for a biometrics appointment at a USCIS Application Support Center (ASC).
- Relevance: This is the most common document issued to migrants released with a summons.
- Form I-385 (Alien Booking Record):
- Purpose: Used to document the release of an individual from custody, including demographic and identification information.
- Biometrics Collection:
- This form often includes a photo and fingerprints if collected during the apprehension process.
- Relevance: Frequently issued alongside or in place of other forms during release.
Key Differences Between I-200/I-205 and Summons Documents
- Form I-200/I-205:
- Typically used for individuals under ICE custody and active removal or deportation processes.
- Requires biometrics collection at the time of issuance.
- Notice to Appear (Form I-862):
- Used for individuals released with a summons to appear in immigration court.
- Biometrics collection may be deferred to a later appointment if not done during initial processing.
Summary
Individuals who are apprehended for unlawful entry and released with a summons to appear in court typically receive a
Notice to Appear (Form I-862) rather than Forms
I-200 or
I-205. If they are processed by ICE, they are fingerprinted and photographed, but if released without detention, biometrics collection may occur at a scheduled appointment.
You said:
what if they don't show up for their biometric appointment and I though the biometrics portion was voluntary as far as flying?
AI said:
What Happens if Undocumented Individuals Don't Show Up for Their Biometrics Appointment?
- Consequences of Missing a Biometrics Appointment:
- Immigration Court Proceedings: If an individual fails to attend their scheduled biometrics appointment, their immigration case may proceed without this critical step.
- Impacts on Case: Missing the appointment can lead to delays or even dismissal of applications (e.g., asylum, adjustment of status).
- Potential Bench Warrants: In some cases, failing to comply with required steps in the immigration process can result in an arrest warrant being issued for failure to appear.
- TSA and Air Travel Without Biometrics:
- Voluntary Biometric Screening: The biometric portion of TSA security screening (e.g., facial recognition or fingerprinting) is voluntary for air travelers as of now.
- Alternative Verification: If a person opts out of biometric screening at TSA checkpoints, they can provide alternative forms of identification, including DHS-issued documents, to verify their identity.
- Flying with DHS Documents Without Biometrics:
- Identification Requirements: Travelers without traditional IDs, including undocumented individuals, can use DHS documents (e.g., Form I-862, I-200, or I-205) as acceptable identification.
- Verification Process: The TSA uses these documents to verify identity by cross-referencing the information with DHS databases.
- Biometrics Not Mandatory for Travel: Even if biometrics (e.g., fingerprints, photos) are missing from DHS records due to a skipped appointment, the individual may still travel if their identity can be verified through other means, such as existing records in DHS systems.
Why Biometrics Are Important but Not Always Mandatory
- Immigration Proceedings:
- Biometrics help establish a person's identity within DHS and USCIS systems.
- Missing biometrics complicates the verification process but does not necessarily bar individuals from continuing in immigration proceedings unless explicitly required.
- Air Travel Security:
- The TSA's primary goal is to verify identity and ensure the security of air travel.
- Biometrics enhance security, but the TSA also accepts paper-based verification methods to accommodate individuals without biometrics on file.
Summary
- Biometrics appointments are not optional for compliance with immigration proceedings, but missing them does not automatically bar individuals from traveling if they possess other acceptable DHS documents.
- For TSA security, biometric screening is voluntary; travelers may opt out and still fly using alternative identity verification processes.
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