Are you opposed to "Zionism" and, if so, why please?

[fncceo]

Given all that all that accumulated history of multi-ethnic penetration of Judaism, how does the Jewish religion establish itself as an "ethnicity"?

Jewish ethnicity isn't based on race, but on culture. Jews, with very few permutations, pray the same prayers, practice the same rituals, and accept the same scripture as their ancestors did thousands of years ago.

A Jew from a Chinese community says the same prayers, studies the same scripture, and follows the same Judaic Laws as a Jew in India, Africa, or Podunk, Ohio.

 

[fncceo]

Wilhelm Marr


See - this is one gentile who knows a thing ot two.

Beseder!

 

[Oddball]

Jewish ethnicity isn't based on race, but on culture. Jews have, with very few permutations, pray the same prayers, practice the same rituals, and accept the same scripture as their ancestors did thousands of years ago.

A Jew from a Chinese community says the same prayers, studies the same scripture, and follows the same Judaic Laws as a Jew in India, Africa, or Podunk, Ohio.

Riiiiight....But "ethnicity", properly defined, is based upon regional origins and descent, not commonly practiced rituals.

Buddhists and Shintos are (primarily) ethnic Asians, yet Japanese and Chinese cultures are miles apart....Asian Jews don't suddenly stop being Asiatics because of the religious ritual.

 

[Rigby5]

As a point of reference, here is a definition of Zionism.

Zionism | Definition, History, Examples, & Facts

Zionism, Jewish nationalist movement that originated in eastern and central Europe in the latter part of the 19th century that has had as its goal the creation and support of a Jewish national state in Palestine, the ancient homeland of the Jews. Learn more about the history of Zionism in this...

www.britannica.com

Zionism, Jewish nationalist movement that has had as its goal the creation and support of a Jewish national state in Palestine, the ancient homeland of the Jews (Hebrew: Eretz Yisraʾel, “the Land of Israel”). Though Zionism originated in eastern and central Europe in the latter part of the 19th century, it is in many ways a continuation of the ancient attachment of the Jews and of the Jewish religion to the historical region of Palestine, where one of the hills of ancient Jerusalem was called Zion.

Anyone who knows anything about Judaism knows that Jews screwed up with the rebellion against Rome.
Jews were not in power when Rome took over Palestine, and it was the Parthian expansion the Romans were trying to stop.
So Rome recreated Israel, that had not really existed for over 500 years, as a puppet for Rome.
For example, King Herod of Israel was a Roman who converted to Judaism.
But Rome not only easily crushed the first Jewish rebellion of 60AD, but the later one around 135AD as well.
So Jews were left with 3 choices.
1. There is no God.
2. Jews were not the Chosen People.
3. Jews were being punish with their defeat, for the sins of arrogance and pride.
Jews picked #3 and set about atoning for their sins, by mixing with other cultures, trying to be more humble, and waiting for the coming of the Messiah, as a sign their atonement had worked.

So the meaning of Zionism is not supposed to mean creating a paradise on Earth.
Zionism is supposed to mean atonement and humble actions, so that the Messiah will come and create Zion on Earth.

Palestine is not the homeland of Jews.
We don't know where that was, but it likely was the Sinai.
There is absolutely not one shred of evidence of Hebrew existence in Palestine before the invasion around 1000 BC.
And the Temple of Solomon and Israel only lasted about 220 years before being defeated and destroyed by the Assyrians.
So Palestine was the peak of Jewish history of aggression, not any significant duration or anything to be proud of.
By 780 BC, Israel was gone and never to return.
And good riddance, since that Israel was guilty of horrendous genocide against the Canaanites.

The Zionist movement of 1895 by Theodor Herzl, started out very humble.
The idea was to return to the simply life on farms.
But by 1930 or so, Zionism had become completely corrupted by David Ben Gurion and Chaim Weizmann.
These were evil people who deliberately antagonized Hitler in order to force more Jews to emigrate to Palestine.
So many that the British had to halt immigration, which then caused these evil Zionists to murder the British and blow up the King David Hotel.
The current Israel is an abomination, mostly pushed by evil atheists like Netanyahu, who were bent on murdering natives to steal homes.
As Ashkenazi, people like Netanyahu do not even have any Mideast DNA at all.

 

[Rigby5]

So you are opposed to the existence of Israel?

Everyone should be, especially Jews, who are supposed to be in atonement the sins of arrogance and pride.
Israel is sacrilege and denigrats all previous atonement.

 

[K9Buck]

Everyone should be, especially Jews, who are supposed to be in atonement the sins of arrogance and pride.
Israel is sacrilege and denigrats all previous atonement.

Do you believe in God? The rebirth of Israel was predicted in the Old Testament several thousand years ago. In fact, it was God himself that caused Israel to be reborn.

 

[Rigby5]

Zionism is, nothing more, or nothing less, than a movement to establish a secular, ethnically Jewish state in the land that was historically Israel. The re-establishment the Jewish culture in traditional lands was vital to Jewish existence after centuries of diaspora because, as the world has proved OVER, and OVER, and OVER again, Jews as a tenant population in any society are at risk of extinction.

I stress secular because the largest by far component of traditional Zionists were secular Jews who, despite attempts to integrate into various societies, found themselves as much at risk as distinctly religious Jews. One of the reasons why religious Jews roundly rejected Zionism (at least until Zionism became an establish fact) is that they rejected the idea of a secular Jewish State.

That goal has been accomplished and the State of Israel is firmly and irrevocably established. The goal of Zionism, and the reason for the existence of Zionism is gone. Essentially, supporting Zionism is equivalent to supporting a sun-centric plan of The Solar System ... it exists, whether or not you choose to accept it.

Anyone today who opposes Zionism (or claims to) is supporting the destruction of the established State of Israel. There is no other way to be anti-Zionist now that the State of Israel is established fact and home to over 9 million people, at least of quarter of whom aren't Jewish by faith or ethnicity.

Not true.
No benevolent tenant population has ever been at risk of extinction in any other society.
It is only when a culture is arrogant, needlessly prideful, selfish, material, and untrustworthy, that they are at risk.

Clearly Israel was not at all necessary, and Jews could easily have blended in as easily as Catholics, Protestants, Moslems, of Hindi.

And while a sun centric solar system has always existed and is the only way it could exist, Zionism can never work.
It always means imposing a minority Jewish culture, population, and religion, on the majority Moslem Arabs.
That could only work if Jews remembered they were Arabs also, and that Islam is only a slight reformation of Judaism.
But Zionists are too arrogant to bother about facts, and instead use absurd mythology to perpetuate their on going criminal act or murder and theft of homes.
There are only 6 million Israeli Jews, and 12 million Arab Moslems in Israel/Palestine.
That can not be allowed.

 

[K9Buck]

So the meaning of Zionism is not supposed to mean creating a paradise on Earth.

Who has defined Zionism as a "paradise on Earth"?

 

[Rigby5]

I support nationalism. The world would be a much safer and peaceful place if all nations were founded based on a single cultural identity for each.

That is never possible, so instead what you end up with is rule by one group over all others, which never works.
It is always better to mix as many cultures as possible, to ensure the rule of law according to inherent rights of all individuals.

 

[fncceo]

Riiiiight....But "ethnicity", properly defined, is based upon regional origins and descent, not commonly practiced rituals.

Buddhists and Shintos are (primarily) ethnic Asians, yet Japanese and Chinese cultures are miles apart....Asian Jews don't suddenly stop being Asiatics because of the religious ritual.

American Jews don't stop being Americans. German Jews don't stop being Germans, ad infinitum.

It's not as important to a discussion of who is, or who isn't, a Jews among Jews -- that is pretty much set in stone -- as is how enemies of the Jews define it.

For the past 2,000 years, when someone or other comes around to murder a Jewish community, or put Jews on cattle cars, they don't stop to think about how "Jewish" their victim is. They identify someone as Jewish, even if that individual has eschewed any connection with the Jewish Community.

In the Middle Ages or in Tsarist Russia, when someone wanted to slaughter Jews, they had only to go to the nearest Jewish Community and they could be reasonably certain anyone they put to the sword would be a Jew. Of course, mistakes were made, but Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.

The Germans were a bit stymied by the fact that Jews were firmly assimilated in German society so they had use their Teutonic efficiency to come up with Mischling laws (literally mixed-blood) to determine who to feed into the ovens. The Germans created the concept of fractional Jews (a concept firmly rejected by Jewish Law) to determine with what they believed to be quite accurately just how "Jewish" a person was. It's ironic that people today still believe in the concept that someone can be a this or that percentage of Jew when, according to Jewish Law, it's a binary state.

That brings us to today, when the world once again believes they can determine who is a Jew, or who isn't Jewish enough, to live where they want to live. It seems that allowing Jews to determine who is Jewish and who isn't is just too important to be left to the Jews.

 

[K9Buck]

No benevolent tenant population has ever been at risk of extinction in any other society.

Persecution of minorities has existed in most nations throughout world history.

 

[Rigby5]

Fair enough.

Tell me more about this "ethnicity" thing....Every non-convert Jew I've ever seen is a lily-white Caucasian....Outside the religious practices, I see no ethnic difference between Jews and any other indo-European stock.

Sephardic Jews come from the Mideast and look like Arabs because they are.
Ashkenazi Jews of Russia and Poland do not look like Arabs because they are not.
They are converts from the Balkans around 1600.

 

[K9Buck]

These were evil people who deliberately antagonized Hitler in order to force more Jews to emigrate to Palestine.

 

[fncceo]

Zionism can never work.

If you can pull your head out of your gruppenfurher's rectum long enough to look around, you might be surprised to learn it's been working very nicely, thank you, for over 70 years.

That ain't a picture of Miami Beach, dumbkopff.

 

[Votto]

You want to destroy the Zionists?

Come at me bro!

 

[fncceo]

View attachment 521249

You want to destroy the Zionists?

Come at me bro!

While I appreciate any divine intervention on behalf of my people, I also believe in more pragmatic solutions.

 

[Rigby5]

I think it can be argued that, historically, no segment of humanity has been as persecuted as the Jewish people. I certainly understand the justification for supporting the rebirth of the nation of Israel as a homeland for the world's Jewish people. So, yes, I SUPPORT the nation of Israel. Additionally, I believe that Israel does a lot of good things for the region and the world. I admire them and stand with them and, frankly, don't understand the hatred against them.

Not true.
Jews are the common denominator themselves, so then have to be at fault.
Did you know that a "ghetto" is actually the wall city of the elite, like where the tax collectors and royal administrators lived?
It essentially means gated community.
The hatred was well earned.

And if you do not understand the hatred against modern Israel, you have to be extremely ignorant.
All the Jews in Israel are illegal immigrants, who came in after 1930 or so.
And they never paid for any land.
The homes they occupy came to their possession by the murder of the Arab native who lived their as their ancestral home.
Look up the Massacre of Dier Yassin as an example of the hundreds of Arab villages that were murdered and extinguished.

 

[Rigby5]

The past doesn't count for jack shit....Our political world is run on willingness to use aggressive force...The Israeli Jews are very good at it....Their "right to exist" is dependent upon how willing their own people are to defend their own dirt.

The fact Israel has enough money from the US to have superior weapons to the natives, does not make then right.
They are still illegal immigrants with no right to be there, murdering and stealing.

 

[K9Buck]

And if you do not understand the hatred against modern Israel, you have to be extremely ignorant.

Did you support the use of death camps to kill Jews?

 

[Rigby5]

I support the rights of people to determine their own fate, so yes, og course I support Zionism.

Wrong.
The "people" of Palestine are Arab Moslems, and the Jews are illegal, immigrant, minority, who do not belong there at all.