Are We Supposed To Harden Walmarts and Grocery Stores, Too?

[Flopper]

And what expertise" do these people have to make such a decision. I don't know about you, but I have had my outs with coworkers, family members and ex-girlfriends who would have loved to see me not get a gun for personal reasons unrelated to a threat on my behalf.

You leftists hate the idea of being considered innocent until proven guilty, but until that time comes where you can change that, it's still the law of the land.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Low probability

Low probability is better than nothing. But that's just your opinion.

You just don't want to do anything about preventing people like Ramos from getting an AR-15.

 

[Thinker101]

Ok. I know this is hard for you. Constitution. Where is it in the Constitution that we must protect public officials? Where does it say that Supreme Court Justices get protected? That is the entire point of the thread.

I see, so the new standard from you ass-wipes is that laws don't matter, it's only what's in the Constitution. Good to know.

 

[SavannahMann]

I see, so the new standard from you ass-wipes is that laws don't matter, it's only what's in the Constitution. Good to know.

Roe V. Wade. Not in the Constitution. Not a right. Shall not infringe. Can’t pass any gun control laws. So I am on board now. If it isn’t in the Constitution. You don’t get it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ok. I know this is hard for you. Constitution. Where is it in the Constitution that we must protect public officials? Where does it say that Supreme Court Justices get protected? That is the entire point of the thread.

No, the point of the thread is do we "harden" all potential targets.

Where does it say in the Constitution anybody be protected including the President? Policy doesn't have to be in the Constitution in order to enact it.

 

[Flopper]

Come on man. You're a smart guy.

How many nanoseconds will it take you you to discover the flaw in any Red Flag law?

Think about the easiest workaround possible.

How are you going to combat that?

Red flag laws can work. Whether they do work depends on the law and how well it is supported in the state. There are red flag laws now in 17 states.

The law prevents individuals from possessing firearms who show signs of being a threat to themselves or others. The wording of the laws varies with states but these laws allow individuals or institutions to file a complaint with the police. Law enforcement is required to investigate the complain and if there is sufficient evidence, the case goes before a judge who can order the removal of firearms and block future purchases. The court ruling can be challenge and reverse so there is due process.

This is one of the few gun control laws that have be supported by republicans. In Florida there have been over 8900 risk protection orders issued since 2018. In Maryland thousands of guns have been seized due to the red flag law. In cities and areas where gun laws are tighter and possession is less common, the CBS News review found emergency orders are less frequent.

"Red flag" laws work — but only if they are used correctly, data show

"Buffalo was a textbook case. It was not the failure of the law. It was the failure of the implementation of the law," said John Feinblatt of Everytown for Gun Safety.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We already have a minimum age of 21 for hand guns. Why not for rifles?

It's not a punishment. It's just common sense.

Hand guns are more easily concealed. Even with this guy they seen him with a rifle in his hands.

 

[Winston]

That's leftists policy for you. Dementia used the Defense Production Act to speed up solar panels, but didn't even think about it for baby formula for American mothers. Oh, the babies of illegals are just fine; well stocked shelves of formula for them.

Biden Uses Defense Production Act to Address Baby Formula Shortage Biden Uses Defense Production Act to Address Baby Formula Shortage - Joseph Rosado MD

The president used the Defense Production Act to require suppliers to direct resources to baby formula makers before other customers. WebMD Health News ...

josephrosadomd.com

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don't know.

Admittedly, it's harder to catch people like that and I'm not sure much could have been done to deal with him.

But Ramos? We could have caught that one.

You are making assumptions at this point. While the cases are very few, we've had situations where a CCW holder used his firearm illegally to commit murder; one time of a police officer. Here you have to be 21 to buy a gun and get a CCW license. When you do, they go through your adult history up and down, are electronically fingerprinted, and you sign a form stating you were never in trouble with the law nor had any mental issues that required professional attention.

Raising the age to buy an AR won't change any of that. Even if he tortured animals or slashed his face as an adult, nobody knows the better unless it's reported to authorities.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Hand guns are more easily concealed. Even with this guy they seen him with a rifle in his hands.

Concealed or not, 18-year-olds are dangerous with them. Hence why they're not allowed to purchase hand guns, nor should they be allowed to purchase rifles.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Biden Uses Defense Production Act to Address Baby Formula Shortage Biden Uses Defense Production Act to Address Baby Formula Shortage - Joseph Rosado MD

The president used the Defense Production Act to require suppliers to direct resources to baby formula makers before other customers. WebMD Health News ...

josephrosadomd.com

Yeah, a month after he learned of the problem.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Concealed or not, 18-year-olds are dangerous with them. Hence why they're not allowed to purchase hand guns, nor should they be allowed to purchase rifles.

Which is what we discussed earlier. In other words no gun sales to people under the age of 21. And I said I'd make a trade-off. If an adult citizen cannot get a gun until the age of 21, then let's make the same requirement for voting.

 

[XponentialChaos]

You are making assumptions at this point. While the cases are very few, we've had situations where a CCW holder used his firearm illegally to commit murder; one time of a police officer. Here you have to be 21 to buy a gun and get a CCW license. When you do, they go through your adult history up and down, are electronically fingerprinted, and you sign a form stating you were never in trouble with the law nor had any mental issues that required professional attention.

Raising the age to buy an AR won't change any of that. Even if he tortured animals or slashed his face as an adult, nobody knows the better unless it's reported to authorities.

So raise the age for 21 just like you have there. You're making the assumption that this wouldn't change anything. Even Republicans disagree with you and think it would.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Which is what we discussed earlier. In other words no gun sales to people under the age of 21. And I said I'd make a trade-off. If an adult citizen cannot get a gun until the age of 21, then let's make the same requirement for voting.

And as I said before, there's no need for the two to be connected. See Florida.

In that state, you can vote at 18 but you can't buy an AR-15 at that age. Perfectly reasonable and passed by Republican law makers.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So raise the age for 21 just like you have there. You're making the assumption that this wouldn't change anything. Even Republicans disagree with you and think it would.

There are only a handful of them pandering to the public. Taking a gun away from a psycho won't stop him from being a psycho. Guns don't make people into psychos. And a psycho murderer won't let the legal sales of a firearm stop him from killing. He can use cars like that black guy in Wisconsin to kill as many white people as he could. There are trucks like they used in Europe, bombs, and as mentioned repeatedly, all kinds of illegal guns that just about anybody can get.

So your idea that raising the age would have stopped such an attack on a school is unproven because of the illegal gun sales around and the various ways a mass murder can take place.

 

[SweetTea]

I don't really want to get rid of a bazillion guns. Never said it was. I have said that in some parts of this nation it's irresponsible to not have a gun as a means of self defense.

I agree, but the ironic thing is that in many of the places where guns are most needed for self-defense, they are virtually illegal.

 

[Missourian]

Red flag laws can work. Whether they do work depends on the law and how well it is supported in the state. There are red flag laws now in 17 states.

The law prevents individuals from possessing firearms who show signs of being a threat to themselves or others. The wording of the laws varies with states but these laws allow individuals or institutions to file a complaint with the police. Law enforcement is required to investigate the complain and if there is sufficient evidence, the case goes before a judge who can order the removal of firearms and block future purchases. The court ruling can be challenge and reverse so there is due process.

This is one of the few gun control laws that have be supported by republicans. In Florida there have been over 8900 risk protection orders issued since 2018. In Maryland thousands of guns have been seized due to the red flag law. In cities and areas where gun laws are tighter and possession is less common, the CBS News review found emergency orders are less frequent.

"Red flag" laws work — but only if they are used correctly, data show

"Buffalo was a textbook case. It was not the failure of the law. It was the failure of the implementation of the law," said John Feinblatt of Everytown for Gun Safety.

www.cbsnews.com

Ok...I see you aren't thinking this through.

First...the Buffalo shooter was investigated under the New York Red Flag law passed in 2019. He wasn't added to any lists or denied a firearm purchase even though he went through an FFL and submitted to a background check.


Second...how do you know what guns he or she owns?

The Uvalde shooter had a $2000 high end firearm...why not buy two middle of the road guns...or four low enders?

Then put two away?

When that happens...and it will happen...because it ain't rocket science to figure this out...then the call will be for registration...and the answer will be NO.

So...what is the point if an easily thwarted law that will not stop shootings and will only lead to another law that absolutely no gun owner worth his salt will abide?

Now you've created 50 million criminals...think that's going to work out well?

How did creating millions of criminals during prohibition work out?

How about the drug war?

You either learn from history...or you repeat it. I don't have high hopes for the former.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And as I said before, there's no need for the two to be connected. See Florida.

In that state, you can vote at 18 but you can't buy an AR-15 at that age. Perfectly reasonable and passed by Republican law makers.

Of course they're connected because they are both constitutional rights. If we can make different ages for various constitutional rights, why not a right we would like to see an age limit on? Oh, that's right, manipulating age requirements is only for things leftists feel are important.

 

[rightwinger]

Low probability is better than nothing. But that's just your opinion.

You just don't want to do anything about preventing people like Ramos from getting an AR-15.

Which is what we discussed earlier. In other words no gun sales to people under the age of 21. And I said I'd make a trade-off. If an adult citizen cannot get a gun until the age of 21, then let's make the same requirement for voting.

Voting does not slaughter 19 ten year olds

 

[okfine]

Walmart is a gun-free zone, they will escort someone open carrying out the door. And the hell with "trannies" in the bakery and meat department. Their management staff is full of them.

The greeter at the WM I go to doesn't take shit from anyone. They are equal opportunity employers.