Are we so Societally Evolved as to render the Constitiution (2nd Amend.) Antiquated...

[Sahba]

Why do so many here think that the SCOTUS is the 'end and be all' authority on Constitutionality when that same body reverses its self from time to time over the years. Do people not know that those 9 justices can be removed if they mess up 'exhibit bad behavior'. They are mere mortals and capable of bias, self serving interests, petty prejudice etc. and all the other crap that the rest of us 'mere mortals' deal with. Let's not glorify what they say or what "constitutional experts" (like Obama) opine on. The Constitution doesn't really need experts anyway, it wasn't designed to be read or interpreted by experts. We had just rid ourselves from the convoluted intricacies of the Parliamentary system with a big F U the the King of England. A couple centuries later & we now need "experts" to re-write --- O, I mean interpret this document for us.

But we don't define "bad behavior" as "making decisions we disagree with." At least we don't yet.

No, Article 3 of the Constitution spells it out nicely - forget the section, I think it's section 2 though

 

[bendog]

- a good point to underscore in the OP... The 1st presumption / assertion made is that the 2ndA is at its core (the purpose of it), is a means of facilitating a check (by the people) against tyranny.

the 2nd point of including "Societally Evolved" is borrowing from the 'Progressive' Play book... how firearms for a check against tyranny is outlandishly antiquate, a relic the moment after it was written... etc. No longer relevant, in short... We are bombarded by this in the MSM all day long, so it shouldn't be a stretch for any of us to recognize this assertion.

Necessarily, for the sake of debate, one would have to acknowledge (not necessarily agree with) both assertions.

I have also read that the purpose was to prevent a standing army. They hated standing armies. So that ship has sailed and if you want to go back to "original intent," we might as well get rid of it.

The original intent was an armed population that would be impossible to defeat. The militia was by law every able bodied free man.

Interestingly that's exactly what I have seen hiking through Switzerland. Every home (I mean without exception) had firearms in them, asking around I discovered that it's Swiss law & I guess you are punished by their government if you choose to disobey. I would like to hear from those naysayers of the Second A on what they think the amendment is for if it's not about tyranny, & if you say state militia yadi yada - why is the preparedness of a militia any less pertinent in these time where our country has no idea who 10's of millions are -- since they aren't citizens or 'legally' supposed to be here in the first place. I want a militia and if you don't want one, I think the law is on my side not yours.

I'm not a 2nd naysayer, anyone who advocated for the same regulations here that apply in Switzerland would be called a gungrabbing liberal muslim Kenyan socialist communist.

Specific to firearms ? I don't think that is correct - you'll obviously have to back your shit up on this

I thought you said you were personally acquainted with Swiss gun regulations. bye.
The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com

 

[JakeStarkey]

SavannahMan=Ammon Bundy is not in jail. All charges dismissed with prejudice. Why? The Government lied and cheated. Charges Against Bundys in Ranch Standoff Case Are Dismissed

So with literally two exceptions everyone who went to prison plead guilty. Those who pled not guilty went home with two exceptions. So what does that tell you?

First the Government was unwilling to end up playing the part of Custer at the re-enactment of the Little Bighorn, and two, they really were out to screw the Bundy’s. Now as for me I think the Bundy’s are assholes. But even assholes have rights. Which brings us back to you. How are you doing?

If the Bundys tried it again, there will be bloodshed and the militia scattered as ashes before the wind.

Unlikely. Let’s talk numbers. There are including Federal, State, County, and City, about three million cops total in the nation. There are probably that many Remington branded AR-15’s not to mention the dozen other makers.

How many cops would die? How many would face Veterans with training and experience more than equal to that of the cops?

You live in a tin foil world. Almost no veterans are going to join a rebellion against the country and constitution.

The neighbors would put the rebels against the wall in the back yard and leave them where they fell, before the LEO or the military ever showed up.

About half of the people at the Bundy Ranch were veterans. And what makes you think it would be against the Constitution? The people there believed that the Government was acting in an unconstitutional manner. They interpreted the Constitution differently than you do.

You are ignorant if you have never heard of the Oath Keepers. They are former military and cops . Oath Keepers

They are considered a hate group by the Pot stirring Southern Poverty Law Center.

The famed Michigan Militia of thirty years ago was led by a former Green Beret.

You really are ignorant aren’t you? Are you a veteran? Most of them see themselves as Patriots. If the active military was ordered to open fire on citizens about half would refuse. That would be higher in the special units. Paratroopers, Rangers, and the rest.

You don't have a clue. SCOTUS and case law's interpretations count. Yours and your friends don't. And you simply don't have the firepower, militia boy. The feds and staties went easy on you the last two times. Well, maybe not: ask LaVoy Finicum. Oh, that's right.

Yeah. How are things going in Afghanistan? We have all the tech in the world. Yet we can’t seem to manage a win.

Well. Fine. Syria then. But we can’t seem to win there. Uneducated savages and they can’t manage to win in either place. How are things in Yemen?

I was trained in unconventional warfare by the Army. It worked in the Philippines during World War II. It worked in Vietnam. It worked in Afghanistan against every invader in history. It worked in China 2,500 years ago. It worked in America during the Revolutionary War. But this time it won’t. The Bundy’s won the fight, and won in court. Apparently the Jury didn’t see it your way. Then the Government went for round two and lost again.

So now your plan is to murder people. That will get the public on your side. Do I need a sarcasm tag? Yeah because the death of Randy Weaver’s son and wife really got the public on your side. I wonder if it is coincidental that Weaver won in court too? He was found not guilty, and in the civil case won against the Government. So where are these amazing victories that show you are reading the situation right?

SM is silly.

Afghanistan and the US = fallacy of false equivalency. The Philippines and unconventional warfare was a pin prick to the Japanese, and unlike the Filipinos, the great super-majority of American would turn you in to the LEO in a heart beat.

Syria is a good example that the Alt Right would never win the hearts and minds of the American people.

You fail before you start because the American people would never, ever support your silly Alt Right fantasies.

Next.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Magazine capacity is perhaps the clearest tangible measure of where our Nation stands on this...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bootney, no one is going to watch a 13 minute plus video except a gun freek.

 

[Sahba]

Magazine capacity is perhaps the clearest tangible measure of where our Nation stands on this...

OK, so the 'progressives' take away from this informative video - single shot weapons for self defense, single shot weapon can't be loaded until actual time necessitating use - rounds must be carried individually in separate pockets & not to exceed a yet to be determined maximum or the number of pockets available under this maximum.

 

[AZGAL]

Yes: Raise the age for gun purchase at many retail establishments , Heighten background checks, Limit ammunition...

 

[SavannahMann]

SavannahMan=Ammon Bundy is not in jail. All charges dismissed with prejudice. Why? The Government lied and cheated. Charges Against Bundys in Ranch Standoff Case Are Dismissed

So with literally two exceptions everyone who went to prison plead guilty. Those who pled not guilty went home with two exceptions. So what does that tell you?

First the Government was unwilling to end up playing the part of Custer at the re-enactment of the Little Bighorn, and two, they really were out to screw the Bundy’s. Now as for me I think the Bundy’s are assholes. But even assholes have rights. Which brings us back to you. How are you doing?

If the Bundys tried it again, there will be bloodshed and the militia scattered as ashes before the wind.

Unlikely. Let’s talk numbers. There are including Federal, State, County, and City, about three million cops total in the nation. There are probably that many Remington branded AR-15’s not to mention the dozen other makers.

How many cops would die? How many would face Veterans with training and experience more than equal to that of the cops?

You live in a tin foil world. Almost no veterans are going to join a rebellion against the country and constitution.

The neighbors would put the rebels against the wall in the back yard and leave them where they fell, before the LEO or the military ever showed up.

About half of the people at the Bundy Ranch were veterans. And what makes you think it would be against the Constitution? The people there believed that the Government was acting in an unconstitutional manner. They interpreted the Constitution differently than you do.

You are ignorant if you have never heard of the Oath Keepers. They are former military and cops . Oath Keepers

They are considered a hate group by the Pot stirring Southern Poverty Law Center.

The famed Michigan Militia of thirty years ago was led by a former Green Beret.

You really are ignorant aren’t you? Are you a veteran? Most of them see themselves as Patriots. If the active military was ordered to open fire on citizens about half would refuse. That would be higher in the special units. Paratroopers, Rangers, and the rest.

You don't have a clue. SCOTUS and case law's interpretations count. Yours and your friends don't. And you simply don't have the firepower, militia boy. The feds and staties went easy on you the last two times. Well, maybe not: ask LaVoy Finicum. Oh, that's right.

Yeah. How are things going in Afghanistan? We have all the tech in the world. Yet we can’t seem to manage a win.

Well. Fine. Syria then. But we can’t seem to win there. Uneducated savages and they can’t manage to win in either place. How are things in Yemen?

I was trained in unconventional warfare by the Army. It worked in the Philippines during World War II. It worked in Vietnam. It worked in Afghanistan against every invader in history. It worked in China 2,500 years ago. It worked in America during the Revolutionary War. But this time it won’t. The Bundy’s won the fight, and won in court. Apparently the Jury didn’t see it your way. Then the Government went for round two and lost again.

So now your plan is to murder people. That will get the public on your side. Do I need a sarcasm tag? Yeah because the death of Randy Weaver’s son and wife really got the public on your side. I wonder if it is coincidental that Weaver won in court too? He was found not guilty, and in the civil case won against the Government. So where are these amazing victories that show you are reading the situation right?

SM is silly.

Afghanistan and the US = fallacy of false equivalency. The Philippines and unconventional warfare was a pin prick to the Japanese, and unlike the Filipinos, the great super-majority of American would turn you in to the LEO in a heart beat.

Syria is a good example that the Alt Right would never win the hearts and minds of the American people.

You fail before you start because the American people would never, ever support your silly Alt Right fantasies.

Next.

Twelve people chosen at random found Ammon Bundy and half a dozen other not guilty. So the American People obviously sided with him over the Government. At least all twelve randomly chosen people in Oregon. Twelve in Idaho found Randy Weaver not guilty as well. So how in the world did the defense manage to find twelve sympathetic people in all these cases?

The America’s People would never elect Trump.



As for your astonishing ignorance on the Philippines and the effectiveness of the guerrilla forces. By the time the Americans invaded, the Japanese only controlled 12 of 48 provinces, or about a quarter of the nation.

More than one island was liberated not by the American Army under MacArthur, but Locals organized and equipped with captured weapons.

Philippine resistance against Japan - Wikipedia

France, Belgium, and other examples too numerous to list.

The Japanese, the Soviets, and every other main force did what you suggest, murdering people who may not be totally loyal. Odd how it didn’t work isn’t it?

Perhaps we should change to a subject you actually know about. What is your favorite crayon flavor!

 

[JakeStarkey]

SM does not understand the Philippines and the effectiveness of the Japanese against the insurgency. They only controlled 12 of 48 in the beginning, moonbeam: the most important 12.

Afghanistan and the US = fallacy of false equivalency. T

Syria is a good example that the Alt Right can never win the hearts and minds of the American people.

As I wrote, "You fail before you start because the American people would never, ever support your silly Alt Right fantasies."

Do you understand the neighbors would take the militias' weapons away, lead them into the back yard, dispatch and bury them.

Before the LEO and military could ever respond.

If the rest of America is like East Texas, Nevada, and Utah, the neighbors and the LEO know who the crazies are in the Alt Right and will move on them instantly if necessary.

You can never win the hearts and minds of America. Why? Your radical antiAmerican alt right agenda.

 

[SavannahMann]

SM does not understand the Philippines and the effectiveness of the Japanese against the insurgency. They only controlled 12 of 48 in the beginning, moonbeam: the most important 12.

Afghanistan and the US = fallacy of false equivalency. T

Syria is a good example that the Alt Right can never win the hearts and minds of the American people.

As I wrote, "You fail before you start because the American people would never, ever support your silly Alt Right fantasies."

Do you understand the neighbors would take the militias' weapons away, lead them into the back yard, dispatch and bury them.

Before the LEO and military could ever respond.

If the rest of America is like East Texas, Nevada, and Utah, the neighbors and the LEO know who the crazies are in the Alt Right and will move on them instantly if necessary.

You can never win the hearts and minds of America. Why? Your radical antiAmerican alt right agenda.

Right. I’ve posted proofs of my assertions, and all you do is literally cut and paste the same thing. Why? What proofs do you have? Your opinion is noted, and dismissed as uninformed.

You say Afghanistan is false equivalence. Fine. The Philippines was actually the other way around. The Japanese started controlling everything, and ended up afraid to leave the base. Platoon sized patrols would be sent out and never return. The Japanese murdered people as you advocated, and for some reason it did not drive the population into line.

Did the National Guard subdue Kent State? Nope. The protesters won in the end. What happened to the good people lining them up in the yards and shooting them? My oh my, it didn’t happen. The population continued to lose support for the war, for segregation, for all of the resistance to change.

Brutality always backfires. Always. It loses you support among the people, look at the Democratic National Convention in 1968.

You have no idea what this nation is really like. You count on a populist uprising, and it won’t happen. You sound like those idiots who start singing the one bad apple amongst the majority of good cops hymn after a video is released showing the truth.

I don’t want to see the nation torn apart. But with idiots like you chanting the insane it may well happen.

 

[Sahba]

SM does not understand the Philippines and the effectiveness of the Japanese against the insurgency. They only controlled 12 of 48 in the beginning, moonbeam: the most important 12.

Afghanistan and the US = fallacy of false equivalency. T

Syria is a good example that the Alt Right can never win the hearts and minds of the American people.

As I wrote, "You fail before you start because the American people would never, ever support your silly Alt Right fantasies."

Do you understand the neighbors would take the militias' weapons away, lead them into the back yard, dispatch and bury them.

Before the LEO and military could ever respond.

If the rest of America is like East Texas, Nevada, and Utah, the neighbors and the LEO know who the crazies are in the Alt Right and will move on them instantly if necessary.

You can never win the hearts and minds of America. Why? Your radical antiAmerican alt right agenda.

"Alt Right" - kind of gives you away as an opposite reflection of the "crazies" you refer to. Glad to know that LEO's are poised to instantaneously "move on them" - btw, have you ever been call hyperbolic?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Your truth. All I said is that I prefer one method over another. Both are viable. I'm not influenced by the extreme bias and prejudice of religion or political ideologies.
`

Truth is truth Comrade.

You Stalinists live in a fantasy where if you end civil rights you will be kings to lord over your betters. In reality the only thing you ever accomplish is widespread misery.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Obviously your going off 'half cocked' here with limited comprehension of the OP... If you read more carefully you would see that questioning for the facilitation of dialogue... is not necessarily the same as personally questioning those same tenets.

To simplify it for you... I believe that the 2nd Amend. is the cornerstone, the fundamental basis upon which all our personal freedoms are undergirded and stem from...

Hence my closing sentence.

 

[JakeStarkey]

SM does not understand the Philippines and the effectiveness of the Japanese against the insurgency. They only controlled 12 of 48 in the beginning, moonbeam: the most important 12.

Afghanistan and the US = fallacy of false equivalency. T

Syria is a good example that the Alt Right can never win the hearts and minds of the American people.

As I wrote, "You fail before you start because the American people would never, ever support your silly Alt Right fantasies."

Do you understand the neighbors would take the militias' weapons away, lead them into the back yard, dispatch and bury them.

Before the LEO and military could ever respond.

If the rest of America is like East Texas, Nevada, and Utah, the neighbors and the LEO know who the crazies are in the Alt Right and will move on them instantly if necessary.

You can never win the hearts and minds of America. Why? Your radical antiAmerican alt right agenda.

Right. I’ve posted proofs of my assertions, and all you do is literally cut and paste the same thing. Why? What proofs do you have? Your opinion is noted, and dismissed as uninformed.

You say Afghanistan is false equivalence. Fine. The Philippines was actually the other way around. The Japanese started controlling everything, and ended up afraid to leave the base. Platoon sized patrols would be sent out and never return. The Japanese murdered people as you advocated, and for some reason it did not drive the population into line.

Did the National Guard subdue Kent State? Nope. The protesters won in the end. What happened to the good people lining them up in the yards and shooting them? My oh my, it didn’t happen. The population continued to lose support for the war, for segregation, for all of the resistance to change.

Brutality always backfires. Always. It loses you support among the people, look at the Democratic National Convention in 1968.

You have no idea what this nation is really like. You count on a populist uprising, and it won’t happen. You sound like those idiots who start singing the one bad apple amongst the majority of good cops hymn after a video is released showing the truth.

I don’t want to see the nation torn apart. But with idiots like you chanting the insane it may well happen.

You have posted failed arguments not proofs, SM.

The Japanese never started nor controlled "everything" in the 10 thousand islands of the Philippines. The controlled the major cities, the major industries, the major transportation systems, the economy, and so forth; that did not fail until the Allied invasion.

Kent State is a fake alternate fact that has no bearing on this discussion. The NG was armed, and the students had one hand gun that we know of, and they lsot.

No one needs a populist uprising to put down an alt right militia revolt: the neighbors will do it.

SM, chant and pant all you want, but you will lose everything if you people decide to be stupid.

 

[JakeStarkey]

SM does not understand the Philippines and the effectiveness of the Japanese against the insurgency. They only controlled 12 of 48 in the beginning, moonbeam: the most important 12.

Afghanistan and the US = fallacy of false equivalency. T

Syria is a good example that the Alt Right can never win the hearts and minds of the American people.

As I wrote, "You fail before you start because the American people would never, ever support your silly Alt Right fantasies."

Do you understand the neighbors would take the militias' weapons away, lead them into the back yard, dispatch and bury them.

Before the LEO and military could ever respond.

If the rest of America is like East Texas, Nevada, and Utah, the neighbors and the LEO know who the crazies are in the Alt Right and will move on them instantly if necessary.

You can never win the hearts and minds of America. Why? Your radical antiAmerican alt right agenda.

"Alt Right" - kind of gives you away as an opposite reflection of the "crazies" you refer to. Glad to know that LEO's are poised to instantaneously "move on them" - btw, have you ever been call hyperbolic?

I know many of the LEO in East Texas and Salt Lake City/St. George. They know who the Alt Right crazies are. They will be no threat to anyone.

Alt-right

Right-wing ideologies presented as an alternative to mainstream conservatism

The alt-right, or alternative right, is a loosely-connected and somewhat ill-defined grouping of white supremacists, neo-Confederates, neo-Nazis, neo-fascists, and other far-right fringe hate groups. en.wikipedia.org

Sahba needs to do some reading.

1. Alt-Right | Southern Poverty Law Center
   
   www.splcenter.org/.../ideology/alt-right
   The Alternative Right, commonly known as the "alt-right," is a set of far-right ideologies, groups and individuals whose core belief is that “white identity” is ...
   
   
2. ALTERNATIVE RIGHT
   
   alternative-right.blogspot.com
   Over the last few years, we have been witnessing significant changes in the Western political landscape with the rise of so-called populist parties in most White ...
   
   
3. Alternative Right
   
   alternativeright.com
   Alternative Right
   
   
4. What is the American 'alternative right'? - Quora
   
   www.quora.com/What-is-the-American-alternative-right
   NOTICE: I wrote the following description of the “alt right” several years ago, back when the movement was more hazy, and still in the process of being defined.
   
   
5. Alt Right: A Primer about the New White Supremacy
   
   www.adl.org/education/resources/backgrounders/...
   Alt right is short for "alternative right," a vague term that actually encompasses a range of people on the extreme right who reject mainstream conservatism in favor ...
   
   
6. An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right ...
   
   www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/an-establishment...
   A specter is haunting the dinner parties, fundraisers and think-tanks of the Establishment: the specter of the “alternative right.” Young, creative and eager to ...
   

 

[Uncensored2008]

A hi-cap. magazine ban has been an issue for decades and it underscores the essential point of contention between the camps of the 'gun rights' & 'anti's'... Does it boil down to the fundamental point of the 2nd Amendment... a check, by 'the people', against tyranny?

Are we so evolved as a Society & Nation that this notion of a check against tyranny... is 'foolish' and a silly relic...? We do (currently) see dozens and dozens of Countries around the world where there is rampant oppression by dictatorships, quasi governments, political parties, royal families... over the freedoms and "inalienable rights" of their people... So are we 'above all that', now well into our 3rd century as a Nation?

House Democrats Push Ban on 'High Capacity' Magazines and 205 Different Firearms

Magazine capacity is perhaps the clearest tangible measure of where our Nation stands on this... After all, what use is an "assault rifle" if it can only be used with 'tiny' capacity mags... Is having an armed citizenry... 'armed commensurately' with that of the 'civilian' authority policing them, a bygone notion? Do our remaining 90's something elder's notions of the Wiemar Republic, no longer apply here...?

Actually, society has devolved so badly in the last 45 years or so that the 2nd is more important than ever. FL proved more than ever that you can't count on government to keep you safe.


.

Exactly.

The police did nothing to protect children, they tucked tail and ran. At the same time the FBI is colluding with Russia to fix the presidential election, the IRS is attacking conservatives and Jews, the DOJ is obstructing justice in hopes of electing the candidate they are working for.

We have devolved to the point that an armed populace is vital to what is left of our crumbling civilization.

 

[Uncensored2008]

If the Bundys tried it again, there will be bloodshed and the militia scattered as ashes before the wind.

Unlikely. Let’s talk numbers. There are including Federal, State, County, and City, about three million cops total in the nation. There are probably that many Remington branded AR-15’s not to mention the dozen other makers.

How many cops would die? How many would face Veterans with training and experience more than equal to that of the cops?

How many would in fact join the militias in defending the Constitution? Most I would bet.

How the Tide Pod left comes to the conclusion that LEO's who they have been calling murderers or worse will decide to enforce their revolution is astounding.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You people on the Alt Right are losing any cred you had.

Watch for the end of your movement when Mueller reports to the people.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Your assertion is dumb. Obviously his political ideology is not relevant to his mental fitness to own a gun.

Really?

What percent of violent crime is perpetrated by the left?

99% 99.9999999999999999%

There are about zero Republicans in prison for violent crime. Violence and hatred are the heart of the left, always have been.

 

[Uncensored2008]

If conservatives are to blame, then why didn't we have school shootings back when America was more conservative?

It's conservative policy that put a gun in this kid's hands.

Americans have owned guns since this country was founded. So I ask again, why didn't we have school shootings when the country was more conservative?

I've explained my point. I suggest you look at other factors at play for further insights.

You haven't explained anything. There is no conservative policy of "putting guns in hands". It's fully up to the individual whether or not they want to own one.

You want to take that right away.
Because it's an easy fix.
Instead of taking a look at what the left has done to erode the moral character of this nation.
Because that'd be hard.

Keeping guns out of the hands of the criminally insane is the easiest fix ever. You don't want that to happen. You, therefore are responsible.

It really can't be more clear.

By "Criminally Insane," do you mean democrats?

Violent crime is virtually exclusive to the left.