Are we getting stupider? Why or why not? Evidence?

[High_Gravity]

People have the right to have as many kids as they want.

Why is that?

I think her op is condescending. If women can choose to have abortions they can also choose to have large families.

I get the whole welfare ride thing but these supposed "dumb" people already have access to free birth control and free abortions. So obviously that isn't working.

If you give them less welfare money I agree with that we feed kids breakfast lunch and dinner at school anyway.

These people aren't dumb they are lazy.

I agree however an abortion doesn't let get the woman a check for the next 18 years, some people are only interested in having children because it bumps up their food stamps, cash aid and welfare check.

 

[OKTexas]

Do you have any ideas how to encourage stupid people to quit having so many kids?

And how would you define stupidity or intelligence?

Really... I appreciate any and all contributions to the topic!

-- Paravani

Just look at the posters here who, despite having had years of access to the truth, still insist that Obama is "a Kenyan Muslin socailist facist".

I think nutrition of pregnant women and children have a LOT to do with it. (And it is Red Staters that birth those babies when they are still teens). Ban junk food and expand WIC to have a national Wheels on Meals type program delivering 3 nutritious meals to pregnant women and children 16 and under daily. The future national IQ (and teeth) depend on sugar free meals.

Regards from Rosie

Yep, those "Wheels on Meals" programs will save the hell out of the country. Not only can people not be trusted to run their lives, but now ass holes like you think they need to be spoon fed. Are you a union school teacher? People need to be taught self reliance and personal responsibility, not that they are too stupid to make their own decisions and have everything provided their entire lives. It's people like you that are destroying this country.
Teaching dependency creates more poverty not less.

How about we start by dumping a failing public education system, if we are going to spend public funds to educate our children, let those funds go with the child and let parents where their childres are educated. We've wasted about 1.4 trillion dollars on the Federal Department of Education over the last 32 years and have gotten higher drop out rates and lower test scores. You tell me, when is it time to cut our loses?

In the spirit of full disclosure I don't have any children, I saw the world going to hell 40 years ago and liberals like you taking over. I figured it would be abusive to bring a child into the world. Circumsatnces have only confirmed my decision over time.

 

[Misty]

Why is that?

I think her op is condescending. If women can choose to have abortions they can also choose to have large families.

I get the whole welfare ride thing but these supposed "dumb" people already have access to free birth control and free abortions. So obviously that isn't working.

If you give them less welfare money I agree with that we feed kids breakfast lunch and dinner at school anyway.

These people aren't dumb they are lazy.

I agree however an abortion doesn't let get the woman a check for the next 18 years, some people are only interested in having children because it bumps up their food stamps, cash aid and welfare check.

I agree but is that being dumb or is it being lazy?

They are smart for taking advantage of a flawed system.

 

[High_Gravity]

I think her op is condescending. If women can choose to have abortions they can also choose to have large families.

I get the whole welfare ride thing but these supposed "dumb" people already have access to free birth control and free abortions. So obviously that isn't working.

If you give them less welfare money I agree with that we feed kids breakfast lunch and dinner at school anyway.

These people aren't dumb they are lazy.

I agree however an abortion doesn't let get the woman a check for the next 18 years, some people are only interested in having children because it bumps up their food stamps, cash aid and welfare check.

I agree but is that being dumb or is it being lazy?

They are smart for taking advantage of a flawed system.

Good point, not everyone who does that is necessarily stupid but the children they are bringing into this world will not be equipped with the the things they need to succeed, it will be much harder for them.

 

[OKTexas]

Do you have any ideas how to encourage stupid people to quit having so many kids?

And how would you define stupidity or intelligence?

Really... I appreciate any and all contributions to the topic!

-- Paravani

Just look at the posters here who, despite having had years of access to the truth, still insist that Obama is "a Kenyan Muslin socailist facist".

I think nutrition of pregnant women and children have a LOT to do with it. (And it is Red Staters that birth those babies when they are still teens). Ban junk food and expand WIC to have a national Wheels on Meals type program delivering 3 nutritious meals to pregnant women and children 16 and under daily. The future national IQ (and teeth) depend on sugar free meals.

Regards from Rosie

Yep, those "Wheels on Meals" programs will save the hell out of the country. Not only can people not be trusted to run their lives, but now ass holes like you think they need to be spoon fed. Are you a union school teacher? People need to be taught self reliance and personal responsibility, not that they are too stupid to make their own decisions and have everything provided their entire lives. It's people like you that are destroying this country.
Teaching dependency creates more poverty not less.

What you call stupid is nothing but uneducated. The vast majority of our children are not born stupid, we as a society fail them by refusing to properly educate them, to teach them how to be successful, this is becoming a multi-generational problem that bigots like you fail to realize.

 

[Misty]

How bout this? I think the op is dumb for putting an education thread in the politics forum.

 

[Foxfyre]

How bout this? I think the op is dumb for putting an education thread in the politics forum.

That's only if you think it is an education thread. Which of course could support the OP that America is getting stupider, present company excepted I hope.

 

[Erand7899]

... Your post describes exactly what is most likely to occur if we don't come up with other solutions to our problem of decreasing average intelligence.

Stupid people, after all, are MUCH more likely to think that a civilization-ending war is a good idea.

So, do you have any better ideas than that one?

-- Paravani

We need a huge, giant, enormous Convetional World War that kills of 20% of the worlds population. After the war is over, we need to have a Pandemic that will kill off another 20% of the population. When the Pandemic is brought under control, we need to get a One World Government in place and pass laws that force sterilizations and abortions plus the destruction of "Undesirables" just in case they decide to reproduce.

Once we get that all in place, then we can start the process of selective education. Every person, at the age of 6 years old will be tested. The top 10% will be placed into special schools that will teach these children and give them the best education. The next 50% will be given a good education, but geared towards more technical type of stuff. The next 15% will be educated, but not to long since these will be our soldiers. The next 10% will be unskilled laborers and farmers. The bottom 15% will be used for different kinds of test like what a certain type of chemical does to the eyes or what causes cancer.

We definitely need to get rid of all religion. And let's not forget the guns as well.

Oh, I forgot, when a person becomes useless and can't work any longer, they are sent to a special place where they can die gracefully and be turned into Soylent Green to feed the masses.

You did pick up on that he was totally teasing, Paravani?

But seriously what is intelligence? I.Q. does help in certain technical applications and comprehension, but as Forrest Gump would say, "Stupid is as stupid does." I have known some people with Mensa level IQ's who were so lacking in common sense that most people though they were probably mentally challenged. And then you have the "Idiot Savant" incapable of comprehending most common day things but absolutely brilliant and gifted in one particular ability or skill.

One of my avocations is doing/teaching conflict resolution in business and in institutions and part of that is understanding why people are naturally the way they are; i.e. understanding the particular temperament/intelligence they are born with. Those born with I.Q.'s substantially below normal are going to be limited in what they are capable of learning and understanding, but they don't have to be stupid. And assuming that most of us are born with I.Q. somewhere within the normal range, we are all still limited in various ways and gifted in various ways.

Each one of us has at least somethng that comes effortless to us. It comes to us so naturally and is so easy to understand and to do for us, it is difficult to understand why it is so difficult for somebody else. It might be a personality trait or ability to make people laugh or inspire them to respond, to feel loved or cared for, or to learn. Or it might be an ability for administrative organization and implementation or doing chemistry or math or music or art or whatever. Those gifts we are born with are our own special intelligence, and those who are inspired or encouraged to use them are among the world's happiest and brightest people.

Intelligence is the ability to learn and understand, and it is not measured by any so called IQ test. Are we born with the intelligence that we have, or can it be nurtured? I would go for the latter, but I don't think there is any proof either way.

Whatever the degree of intelligence one has, education is key to developing it. Intelligent people have the ability to self learn, once they are provided with the basic tools of learning. However, they also need incentive to put forth the effort required to learn.

I would not say that people are becoming more stupid, since stupidity is the inability to learn. I would say that people are becoming mis-educated, and that mis-education is coloring everything they come across. The highly intelligent ones recognize that they have been had, and correct their thought processes. Others just plug along, unwilling to actually examine what they believe to be true.

 

[CrazedScotsman]

In all seriousness, the population is as dumb or smart as it was 10 years ago, 100 years ago or 1000 years ago. There is no change in intelligence being higher or lower now than in the past. It's just that the dumb, idiotic, ignorant, crazy and so on people now have a way to show the whole world just how dumb, idiotic, ignorant, crazy and so on they are. It's called the Internet and Social Media like Facebook, YouTube, twitter and so on.

We just see it more because it's right there in front of everyone's faces.

 

[Misty]

I agree however an abortion doesn't let get the woman a check for the next 18 years, some people are only interested in having children because it bumps up their food stamps, cash aid and welfare check.

I agree but is that being dumb or is it being lazy?

They are smart for taking advantage of a flawed system.

Good point, not everyone who does that is necessarily stupid but the children they are bringing into this world will not be equipped with the the things they need to succeed, it will be much harder for them.

Life is hard for everyone. Look at the smartest person in the world Stephen hawking, no one's had life harder than him. He can't move or talk yet he is brilliant.

 

[paravani]

People have the right to have as many kids as they want.

Why is that?

I think her op is condescending. If women can choose to have abortions they can also choose to have large families.

I get the whole welfare ride thing but these supposed "dumb" people already have access to free birth control and free abortions. So obviously that isn't working.

If you give them less welfare money I agree with that we feed kids breakfast lunch and dinner at school anyway.

These people aren't dumb they are lazy.

I think you're definitely on the right track, but I wouldn't call it "lazy". I'd call it lack of planning.

There's another thread here about how making birth control more available decreases the number of abortions... but the important point, to my mind, is that it doesn't eliminate them completely.

Why not?

If women have free and relatively easy access to reliable birth control, why would there still be a significant number of abortions?

Well, a few of the abortions might be because they made a mistake taking their birth control, or forgot. And a few more might be because even when used properly, no method of birth control is 100% perfect.

A few more abortions might be because the woman was raped; or because after she got pregnant, her boyfriend/husband turned into such a vile dickhead that she no longer wanted to bear the *sshole's kid.

And lastly -- and rarely -- a very few abortions might still take place because the fetus has a severe birth defect like spina bifida. (This is one form of "eugenics" that many parents practice every year. If parents learn that their baby either won't live long, or will have serious problems if it does, they often choose to end the pregnancy and try again later for a perfect child.)

Unfortunately, even when birth control is free, there are still a large number of abortions that are due to a simple lack of planning. Stupid women simply don't plan to get pregnant; they just follow their impulses and convince themselves that they won't get pregnant... and then they do.

Stupidity, after all, isn't the inability to do math; stupidity is the consistent failure to plan ahead, and the denial of reality that the stupid person uses in the place of logic.

We've all seen this, haven't we?

So, how do we keep stupid people from increasing in numbers? What kind of intelligence test would insure that only "smart" people -- that is, people who plan ahead -- will be able to choose to have as many kids as they want?

-- Paravani

 

[Avatar4321]

In all seriousness, the population is as dumb or smart as it was 10 years ago, 100 years ago or 1000 years ago. There is no change in intelligence being higher or lower now than in the past. It's just that the dumb, idiotic, ignorant, crazy and so on people now have a way to show the whole world just how dumb, idiotic, ignorant, crazy and so on they are. It's called the Internet and Social Media like Facebook, YouTube, twitter and so on.

We just see it more because it's right there in front of everyone's faces.

I disagree. As the Spirit withdrawals from the wicked among us, you will see them lose intelligence.

But I see intelligence growing in a large population as well. So while there may be people descending, the light and goodness is ascending.

Truly it is the best of times and the worst of times.

 

[OKTexas]

How bout this? I think the op is dumb for putting an education thread in the politics forum.

I have to disagree, because our political climate is the primary cause of the problem. Teachers unions and school bureaucrasts have way too much political power.

 

[Decus]

This isn't a political topic either. Put this in the proper forum.

It is our policies as a nation and as a civilization that have created the problem of decreasing average intelligence.

Only by developing new policies -- which is, after all, the business of politics -- can we address this problem.

-- Paravani

You might want to look up a Swiss researcher by the name of Jaeggi, specific to attempts to increase IQ levels. My bias is towards working the brain, something which is not often found in our schools or in many homes. In homes where families value education, those kids often prove to be top performers. I'm also not sure about your premise - the statistics point to rising intelligence levels. That someone cannot speak proper English, works at Subway or displays a general lack of refinement does not support your premise.

 

[sakinago]

Just look at the posters here who, despite having had years of access to the truth, still insist that Obama is "a Kenyan Muslin socailist facist".

I think nutrition of pregnant women and children have a LOT to do with it. (And it is Red Staters that birth those babies when they are still teens). Ban junk food and expand WIC to have a national Wheels on Meals type program delivering 3 nutritious meals to pregnant women and children 16 and under daily. The future national IQ (and teeth) depend on sugar free meals.

Regards from Rosie

Proper nutrition for children from conception on definitely increases brain growth, as does appropriate stimulation like talking to children, playing games with them, and teaching them math, reading, spatial, and motor skills from an early age.

I do think that making sure everyone has access to the best nutrition possible is an excellent idea; but I also believe based on first-hand experience that we as a society have made real progress in this direction already. WIC works; so do food stamps, though they don't stretch far enough in these days of rising food prices.

But again, there is a genetic limit to how much a person can learn; and if children are born to mothers who isn't very bright, no matter how much good food they get throughout their childhoods, it won't change the basic raw material of their brains. Not to mention, their mothers probably won't teach their children as much in other ways, either.

The bottom line is, stupid mothers still tend to have stupid children, no matter how well nourished they may be.

I'm afraid the only solution to the problem is "natural selection". By that I mean, we must somehow encourage men and women who are not very intelligent to take themselves out of the gene pool. We don't need to convince ALL of them... just a preponderance of them.

So, before we discuss some ways to do that, let me ask:

Do you think that if every child was a choice and no child was unwanted, would stupid people choose to have as many children as they do now? Would stupid men choose to have babies for whom they now have to pay child support? Would stupid women choose to have as many children as they do now?

-- Paravani

Wow I am kind of baffled at where this conversation is going. I only read the first post, and responded to it, but reading on I cant even believe what I am seeing. Why dont we just find all the stupid people, men and women alike, and give them depo injections every 3 months. I was joking at first about my ugenix remark, but now I see that you are actually serious about it. A ugenix liberal... an oxymoron i never thought Id see, but I am not sure why I am so surprised.

First off I dont think you have a very good understanding of genetics to come to the conclusions that you are coming to. Secondly while nutrition is important to a babies development, there is no specific "genius formula" out there other than stay away from what we know are harmful to babies, get enough folic acid and iron, and keep a wide variety in your diet. Thats why I hate the "diet" mindset today in america. Its a simple as get a wide variety, and calories in vs calories out. Super-foods dont give you super-powers, except for cranberry juice in defense of a UTI (this is a joke I am making by the way).

The only relatively good point you have made is about the type of play with babies, but It shouldnt stop at infancy, it should continue through childhood.

Your too hung up on faulty genetics, over an issue about cognitive development, which makes its biggest leaps starting from birth, till about age 10. This is where your going to give your kids the best advantage, feeding them soy beans over mac and cheese isnt going to make much of a difference.

 

[francoHFW]

The thing making people dumber is the Pub propaganda system...

Intelligent people are TRYING to get free birth contol passed to save insurers an the country tens of billions a year...duh.

 

[Foxfyre]

In all seriousness, the population is as dumb or smart as it was 10 years ago, 100 years ago or 1000 years ago. There is no change in intelligence being higher or lower now than in the past. It's just that the dumb, idiotic, ignorant, crazy and so on people now have a way to show the whole world just how dumb, idiotic, ignorant, crazy and so on they are. It's called the Internet and Social Media like Facebook, YouTube, twitter and so on.

We just see it more because it's right there in front of everyone's faces.

But because it is visible, it is useful to persuade, direct focus, and indoctrinate too. Remember, that it was the mob mentality--the ability to get a whole large group of gullible people thinking the same way, chanting the same slogans, obediently repeating the same talking points, and hating the same things that brought Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Chairman Mao, and many others to power. The indoctrinated believed the utopia painted by these would-be dictators. Certainly among those mobs were people of all levels of I.Q. Was their believing the hype stupid? Sure turned out that way didn't it?

Education can help us understand the possibilities, learn how to do certain tasks, appreciate various kinds of information, and develop our natural ability to think criticially. Or it can squelch any of those things.

Again, I don't think education outside of apprciation for and promotion of important values is going to help intelligece. Those values the Founders gave us was an understanding of and reverence for unalienable rights that allowed all, rich and poor alike, to achieve and strive for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I doubt there is a public school anywhere the country that is actively teaching that principle.

 

[Decus]

Eugenics?

 

[koshergrl]

This site alone would make anyone think that we as a society are becoming dumber. The movie Idiocracy was a documentary apparently.

LOL! Idiocracy rocked!

Yeah, it made some relevant points, and yeah, that could be our future... but I really, really hope not, 'cause unlike in the movie, I don't think civilization will survive the next 500 years if we keep getting stupider.

So come on... let's hear some ideas! How do we prevent the population of our civilized world from getting stupider and stupider?

Well outlawing religion would be a great start. Then a focus on science and understanding the world around us from an analytical and rational standpoint would be huge steps in the right direction. Unfortunately I'm afraid we're nowhere near that happening.

Evidence that we are getting stupider brought to you by....

RDD.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Why is that?

I think her op is condescending. If women can choose to have abortions they can also choose to have large families.

I get the whole welfare ride thing but these supposed "dumb" people already have access to free birth control and free abortions. So obviously that isn't working.

If you give them less welfare money I agree with that we feed kids breakfast lunch and dinner at school anyway.

These people aren't dumb they are lazy.

I think you're definitely on the right track, but I wouldn't call it "lazy". I'd call it lack of planning.

There's another thread here about how making birth control more available decreases the number of abortions... but the important point, to my mind, is that it doesn't eliminate them completely.

Why not?

If women have free and relatively easy access to reliable birth control, why would there still be a significant number of abortions?

Well, a few of the abortions might be because they made a mistake taking their birth control, or forgot. And a few more might be because even when used properly, no method of birth control is 100% perfect.

A few more abortions might be because the woman was raped; or because after she got pregnant, her boyfriend/husband turned into such a vile dickhead that she no longer wanted to bear the *sshole's kid.

And lastly -- and rarely -- a very few abortions might still take place because the fetus has a severe birth defect like spina bifida. (This is one form of "eugenics" that many parents practice every year. If parents learn that their baby either won't live long, or will have serious problems if it does, they often choose to end the pregnancy and try again later for a perfect child.)

Unfortunately, even when birth control is free, there are still a large number of abortions that are due to a simple lack of planning. Stupid women simply don't plan to get pregnant; they just follow their impulses and convince themselves that they won't get pregnant... and then they do.

Stupidity, after all, isn't the inability to do math; stupidity is the consistent failure to plan ahead, and the denial of reality that the stupid person uses in the place of logic.

We've all seen this, haven't we?

So, how do we keep stupid people from increasing in numbers? What kind of intelligence test would insure that only "smart" people -- that is, people who plan ahead -- will be able to choose to have as many kids as they want?

-- Paravani

I feel like I'm in a really dull lecture in one of my Psychology classes with constant questions we all say, "Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuh" to.. WTF?