Zone1 Are there truths that you would be willing to get kicked out of a church or synagogue for?

[DennisPTate]

My all time record for being disfellowshiped from a Christian church is two, in not much more than a month back in 1991. I knew that I could no longer go along with the "Soul Sleep" doctrine so I informed the local Pastor that he may as well kick me out of the church that I had been involved with since 1972.

I soon found the Philadelphia Church of God led by Pastor General Gerald Flurry and I wrote him a letter because I felt that I would be wasting the time of that church if I could not live up to the standard for obedience to the leadership that they demanded.

I admit it... I am willing to get disfellowshipped, or shunned, or ostracized, or kicked out or even ex-communicated for some of the challenging and controversial truths that many near death experiencers have been revealing for decades.


Here is an example of a man who I believe is being totally truthful about what he reports being told by Jesus.

[Near death expereincer John J. Davis] :

Wildflower Meadow​

Here’s the last part of my near-death experience. My guide took me to what I can only describe as an absolutely beautiful meadow. There were rolling hills, beautiful flowers, green grass. It was a perfect day.

And then my guide left. I thought I was standing there by myself, and then, all of a sudden, a man showed up in front of me. Nobody told me it was him; I just knew that it was Jesus. He was different from everyone else. I could see his hands, and I could see his feet. I could see what he was wearing. He had a white robe on with a golden sash around his waist, and he had gold-colored sandals that laced up his calves, but he was so bright I couldn’t make out his facial features. Jesus had so much energy and so much light that was pouring out of him.

He said something to me, and it is something I have tried to do my entire life since then. It was like my assignment somehow. Jesus said, “You must tell them there is no death.”

Right after he said those words, I immediately woke up back in the hospital room. I asked the surgeon what happened, and he said, “We lost you. You were gone for seven minutes.”

Ever since then, I’ve been doing what Jesus asked me to do. I’ve been telling people that something happens after we pass, and it’s something absolutely beautiful. There is so much hope and so much joy, which we forget about here because life can be very hard.

There are a lot of hard times in life, and we are not supposed to remember the other side. But when you see someone who has had these experiences, it gives you hope. There is a reason for all of this. It’s all real, and we live for eternity. There is really no end. When people cross over and leave us here, they are not gone from us—we will see them again."
[John J. Davis]

Wildflower Meadow - John J. Davis Near-Death Experience

My guide took me to a wildflower meadow with beautiful wildflowers of every color. Suddenly a man showed up and I knew it was Jesus.

johnjdavisnde.com

This man's personal testimony is shocking but obviously he is trying his best to be truthful. All that he does he does as a volunteer anyway.

2,462,503 views Apr 8, 2023 Next Level Soul Podcast

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

2?

That quickly happened when I was 18 years old.

I've either left, or were kicked out of, at least 30 "Cult like Churches (Protestant in one fashion or another)".

And, although I have many of the Magazines, Books, etc.,..... The "Philadelphia Church of God" BLACKLISTED Me, cuz' I began to question several teachings, where The Scriptures, &/or Physical Facts Defied a Teaching.

And as far as Your "near death experiencers",...... They are not Scriptural.

 

[Woodznutz]

I wouldn't wait to be kicked out; I would just quietly leave.

 

[DennisPTate]

2?

That quickly happened when I was 18 years old.

I've either left, or were kicked out of, at least 30 "Cult like Churches (Protestant in one fashion or another)".

And, although I have many of the Magazines, Books, etc.,..... The "Philadelphia Church of God" BLACKLISTED Me, cuz' I began to question several teachings, where The Scriptures, &/or Physical Facts Defied a Teaching.

And as far as Your "near death experiencers",...... They are not Scriptural.

Wow!!!!!

I am seriously impressed!

You have got me beat by about 1500% or more!

So far anyway!

Here is my conclusion related to near death experience accounts. They show so much insight that each one of the ones that have been vetted properly, could really only come from one of two sources.

Either these people are actually meeting either Messiah Yeshua - Jesus appearing as the Being of Light of near death experience fame.......
or they must be meeting with Satan appearing as an angel of light?

I had to wrestle my way through that general idea from about 1990 to 1995. By the year 2000 I felt at peace with the vast majority of NDE accounts that had been vetted by somebody as well informed as Kevin Williams Ph. D. who himself had a near death experience. He writes ninety plus percent of the articles on www.near-death.com/

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as Christ’s apostles.
2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 It is no great thing therefore if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

 

[Eman623]

I wouldn't wait to be kicked out; I would just quietly leave.

That's what I did when I left the Jehovah's Witnesses. I just stopped going to meetings and believing in their doctrine. No one did anything about it.

 

[Woodznutz]

Wow!!!!!

I am seriously impressed!

You have got me beat by about 1500% or more!

So far anyway!

Here is my conclusion related to near death experience accounts. They show so much insight that each one of the ones that have been vetted properly, could really only come from one of two sources.

Either these people are actually meeting either Messiah Yeshua - Jesus appearing as the Being of Light of near death experience fame.......
or they must be meeting with Satan appearing as an angel of light?

I had to wrestle my way through that general idea from about 1990 to 1995. By the year 2000 I felt at peace with the vast majority of NDE accounts that had been vetted by somebody as well informed as Kevin Williams Ph. D. who himself had a near death experience. He writes ninety plus percent of the articles on www.near-death.com/

I would be suspicious if the NDE of others changes what we believe to be the clear meaning of scripture. I've never had a NDE, but I frequently enhance scripture by 'filling in the blanks' with my own thoughts.

 

[DennisPTate]

2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as Christ’s apostles.
2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 It is no great thing therefore if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

But.. is it my buddies the Jehovah's Witnesses....
[who I happen to like very much because I had amazing fellowship and discussion with the local J. W. missionary beginning perahps in 1974 or '75], who are wrong about the State of the Dead..... or is it my Roman Catholic friends who have a rather interesting theory with their ideas on Purgatory?


I have a hard time ruling out the 1943 near death experience account of Dr. George Ritchie?

[Dr. George Ritchie]

Jesus leads Ritchie to a house somewhere on Earth where he is shown the spirit of a young man following his living family members around and begging them for forgiveness. But the family members are completely unaware of his presence. Jesus tells Ritchie the young man committed suicide and is “chained to every consequence of his act.”

They then traveled to a bar somewhere on Earth which was filled with sailors drinking heavily. Spirits surrounded the sailors as they tried desperately, and in vain, to grasp the shot glasses to get a drink. Other spirits tried to control the sailors’ alcoholic behavior. Ritchie learns these are the spirits of people who died still having a severe alcoholic addiction which went beyond the physical. He is bewildered as he observes one of the sailors passing out causing the sailor’s protective aura surrounding him to crack open. When it does, it allows a spirit to scramble into the sailor’s unconscious body. This scene was repeated over and over.

c. His Experience of the “Receiving Station”​

Jesus then takes Ritchie to another realm and is shown a kind of “receiving station” where spirits would arrive in a deep hypnotic sleep because of a particular religious belief they held to be true. Here there were “angels” trying to arouse them and help them realize, “God is truly a God of the living and that they did not have to lie around sleeping until Gabriel or someone came along blowing on a horn.” These are the spirits of people who believe they must sleep in their grave until the second coming of Christ (i.e., soul sleep.)


George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience - Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife

 

[DennisPTate]

I would be suspicious if the NDE of others changes what we believe to be the clear meaning of scripture. I've never had a NDE, but I frequently enhance scripture by 'filling in the blanks' with my own thoughts.

Good point but as of today, January 25, 2026 I do not know of a much better way for YHWH to fulfill a promise that was made through Jeremiah than for this clarification on the true meaning of the Jewish scriptures to come through NDE accounts?

The anger of the Lord will not turn back Until He has executed and performed the thoughts of His heart. In the latter days you will understand it perfectly. 21 "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran. I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied 22 But if they had stood in My counsel, And had caused My people to hear My words, Then they would have turned them from their evil way And from the evil of their doings. 23 "Am I a God near at hand," says the Lord, "And not a God afar off? 24 Can anyone hide himself in secret places, So I shall not see him?" says the Lord; "Do I not fill heaven and earth?" says the Lord. 25 "I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, 'I have dreamed, I have dreamed!' 26 How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart, 27 who try to make My people forget My name by their dreams which everyone tells his neighbor, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal. 28 "The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat?" says the Lord. 29 "Is not My word like a fire?" says the Lord, "And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces? 30 "Therefore behold, I am against the prophets," says the Lord, "who steal My words every one from his neighbor. 31 Behold, I am against the prophets," says the Lord, "who use their tongues and say, 'He says.' 32 Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," says the Lord, "and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all," says the Lord.
[Jeremiah 23]

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

But.. is it my buddies the Jehovah's Witnesses....
[who I happen to like very much because I had amazing fellowship and discussion with the local J. W. missionary beginning perahps in 1974 or '75], who are wrong about the State of the Dead..... or is it my Roman Catholic friends who have a rather interesting theory with their ideas on Purgatory?


I have a hard time ruling out the 1943 near death experience account of Dr. George Ritchie?

It's reads like U R having a Discussion with Yourself,.....I'm gonna Watch.

 

[Woodznutz]

Good point but as of today, January 25, 2026 I do not know of a much better way for YHWH to fulfill a promise that was made through Jeremiah than for this clarification on the true meaning of the Jewish scriptures to come through NDE accounts?

I think we're in the time period where the Jews will cause a fire in all Israel.

"Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire; for thereof shall a fire come forth into all the house of Israel."
Ezekiel 5:4.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

My all time record for being disfellowshiped from a Christian church is two, in not much more than a month back in 1991. I knew that I could no longer go along with the "Soul Sleep" doctrine so I informed the local Pastor that he may as well kick me out of the church that I had been involved with since 1972.

I soon found the Philadelphia Church of God led by Pastor General Gerald Flurry and I wrote him a letter because I felt that I would be wasting the time of that church if I could not live up to the standard for obedience to the leadership that they demanded.

I admit it... I am willing to get disfellowshipped, or shunned, or ostracized, or kicked out or even ex-communicated for some of the challenging and controversial truths that many near death experiencers have been revealing for decades.


Here is an example of a man who I believe is being totally truthful about what he reports being told by Jesus.




This man's personal testimony is shocking but obviously he is trying his best to be truthful. All that he does he does as a volunteer anyway.

You call lies "truth "
I would LEAVE if they don't teach what I believe.
You don't believe Biblical Christianity but Eastern paganism

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I think we're in the time period where the Jews will cause a fire in all Israel.

"Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire; for thereof shall a fire come forth into all the house of Israel."
Ezekiel 5:4.

Jews didn't start the fire

 

[DennisPTate]

I wouldn't wait to be kicked out; I would just quietly leave.

That is an excellent approach. I could learn a lot from that way of thinking.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

My all time record for being disfellowshiped from a Christian church is two, in not much more than a month back in 1991. I knew that I could no longer go along with the "Soul Sleep" doctrine so I informed the local Pastor that he may as well kick me out of the church that I had been involved with since 1972.

I soon found the Philadelphia Church of God led by Pastor General Gerald Flurry and I wrote him a letter because I felt that I would be wasting the time of that church if I could not live up to the standard for obedience to the leadership that they demanded.

I admit it... I am willing to get disfellowshipped, or shunned, or ostracized, or kicked out or even ex-communicated for some of the challenging and controversial truths that many near death experiencers have been revealing for decades.


Here is an example of a man who I believe is being totally truthful about what he reports being told by Jesus.




This man's personal testimony is shocking but obviously he is trying his best to be truthful. All that he does he does as a volunteer anyway.

I just left

 

[Carl in Michigan]

That is an excellent approach. I could learn a lot from that way of thinking.

We're you baptized in Worldwide or one of its offshoots? just curious.

 

[Woodznutz]

Jews didn't start the fire

It appears that it's part of God's plan.

 

[Woodznutz]

That is an excellent approach. I could learn a lot from that way of thinking.

I went to a Methodist service once. It was so depressing I thought I was at a funeral. A dark, depressing, windowless place. All that was missing were the bats.

 

[Woodznutz]

It appears that it's part of God's plan.

Possibly fulfilled in WW2.

 

[DennisPTate]

We're you baptized in Worldwide or one of its offshoots? just curious.

Yes, I was baptized in the Worldwide Church of God in 1979.