Are Students Coddled? Schools Get Rid of 'F's

[Annie]

Repeating a class or a unit of work isn't unusual, heck you can even ask for a re-submit at uni. I agree that there shouldn't be an erasing of failure, surely a second attempt or a re-submit or whatever should be on a student's record so that any patterns can be observed. I assume also that we're referring to formative assessment here?

Formative assessment? I suppose that would depend upon the subject. Believe it or not there are right and wrong answers.

 

[Diuretic]

Formative assessment? I suppose that would depend upon the subject. Believe it or not there are right and wrong answers.

Yep, I found that right and wrong stuff a real bugbear in maths at school.

I couldn't work out why my suggestions weren't as valid as the responses to the questions which could be found in the back of the textbook.

 

[Amanda]

So? At least they will have an education and can find another job.

You're missing the point. We need to punish these little scamps! School isn't about academics, it's about learning to submit to authority.

You WILL do this assignment on this completely arbitrary timetable BECAUSE I SAY SO!

You all hate your stupid, mindless bosses right? At least you get paid to be there. School is all that retarded crap you go through everyday, except we can't run to HR if someone bothers us, we have to just take the beating, and there's paycheck as the reward. It's cracking me up to read about how these sissy kids need to man up and get with the program... the program you all hate and despise.

I'm sure I'm going to get to hear about how some of you just love your jobs, blah blah blah, but I know it's not the norm. I have a job, remember? I grew up listening to growups bitch about their crappy jobs.

For the rest of you that know what I'm talking about because you don't love your job.... Don't you remember when you were free?

 

[Amanda]

I lost at least one teaching post for flunking kids.

Given another opportunity I'd flunked the little bastards again.

Of course given the opportunity to redeign the entire system of education, the whole issue of grades would cease to be problem in editecotoptia, too.

I'd DE-SCHOOL America, were it up to me.

The whole antiquated system for educating our children and reeducating ourselves makes like ZERO sense in today's world.

Its a system cobbled together from a early industrial model and it is ineffective and wastes everybody's time.

You made too much sense, no one could reply they were too stunned.

 

[KittenKoder]

Actually, school is a place where people are suppose to be given the chance to learn instead of socialize. However the learning part was never fully incorporated into the US school system.

 

[Diuretic]

You're missing the point. We need to punish these little scamps! School isn't about academics, it's about learning to submit to authority.

You WILL do this assignment on this completely arbitrary timetable BECAUSE I SAY SO!

You all hate your stupid, mindless bosses right? At least you get paid to be there. School is all that retarded crap you go through everyday, except we can't run to HR if someone bothers us, we have to just take the beating, and there's paycheck as the reward. It's cracking me up to read about how these sissy kids need to man up and get with the program... the program you all hate and despise.

I'm sure I'm going to get to hear about how some of you just love your jobs, blah blah blah, but I know it's not the norm. I have a job, remember? I grew up listening to growups bitch about their crappy jobs.

For the rest of you that know what I'm talking about because you don't love your job.... Don't you remember when you were free?

[youtube]http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=M_bvT-DGcWw[/youtube]

I hope this works, I can't play Flash in Opera in Gutsy.

If it doesn't work then you'll have to sing it yourself:



Another Brick in the Wall Part 2

We don't need no education
We dont need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

We don't need no education
We dont need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

"Wrong, Do it again!"
"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you
have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"
"You! Yes, you behind the bikesheds, stand still laddy!"

 

[Agnapostate]

The school system is based on indoctrination rather than education, and instructs students in the way of textbook drudgery rather than legitimate forms of education that might prepare students with practical skills.

I would recommend that those interested in this topic read Deschooling Society by Ivan Illich.

 

[Amanda]

I would recommend that those interested in this topic read Deschooling Society by Ivan Illich.

That's the problem, most adults don't care, they're out of there, not their problem anymore.

 

[GHook93]

Are you kidding me! Getting rid of F's! Maybe we should get rid of B,C & D also!

 

[Diuretic]

Are you kidding me! Getting rid of F's! Maybe we should get rid of B,C & D also!

No there has to be some form of assessment of learning otherwise there's no point in the effort to teach and to learn.

 

[KittenKoder]

The problem is that schools are becoming no more than conditioning camps, conditioning kids to do nothing but cheat and don't get caught, while obeying their 'leaders' blindly.

If everyone is conditioned to follow then who will lead in the future?

 

[Ravi]

I still feel some sympathy for the teachers. School is an institution, and it is almost impossible for it to not act like an institution. There are a lot of good teachers and there are a lot of bad teachers.

The good ones teach despite all the stupidity and politics. The bad ones collect their paychecks.

As long as teachers understand that their job is to educate no matter what, they do a great job...regardless of the grading system or if little Johnny doesn't know the difference between an H and an F.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

This is fucked up, and I don't know what to do about it.

 

[Ravi]

This is fucked up, and I don't know what to do about it.

We'll give you an I for incomplete and let you redo the course.

 

[KittenKoder]

Actually, the cute little fuzzy is the first one I have seen be fully honest on this. No one knows what to do yet. All we have is an old system that we know isn't helping much, but each change made just makes it worse. So no one knows yet, all we can do is guess and hope the next technique works better.

 

[Gem]

There are still a lot of good teachers out there...teachers who try everyday to reach kids and who realize and feel strongly that their job is to educate, not to drill random facts into young peoples heads, but to encourage them to develop critical thinking skills - to extend and refine their thinking, to take the information we give them and run with it in whatever direction the feel pulled towards.

But there are a lot of issues facing education today - and some of them certainly revolve around the fact that we as a society have been lowering expectations and demands on students, partially in the name of allowing them to "discover education on their own" and partially in the name of "improving their self-esteem" among other reasons.

I am all for students being able to make up work, re-take tests, etc. I have said to parents numerous times that my goal isn't to have your child learn it on December 12th or not at all...but rather to learn it, to understand it, and to be able to use what I have taught them to some useful purpose.

However...

What we are running into in the public school setting...are kids who are learning very quickly...that this often means they don't have to take anything seriously the first time.

Why put any time into the research project that is due at the end of this week? When my teacher will accept it at anytime up until the end of the marking period? Why turn in homework...when, after my mom finds out that I'm failing at the midpoint of the marking period...she'll call the school and ask them to send home all my missed assignments, so I can do them and turn them in the day before grades are due?

As far as schools becoming conditioning camps - haven't they always been that to some extent?

I am not sure that with the direction our society has chosen to go, the public education system can be saved (or should be). I think that I would much prefer a system in which parents and their children could choose a school that matched their philosophy. Want a school that doesn't believe in homework? Great - here it is. Want a school that is more traditional, that will require a lot of time and participation from your child? Go to this school. Want a "free school" model where your child can work with his teachers on studies that are uniquely tied to his interests? Or a school that is more vocationally based? Educators could then choose what type of school they want to work in (and schools could choose whether or not to pay their teachers on a union-based system or based on individual qualifications).

Sorry for the ramble...education is one of those "close to my heart" subjects for me.

 

[Diuretic]

Do educators still talk about learning theories or is that sort of out of fashion now?

 

[KittenKoder]

Do educators still talk about learning theories or is that sort of out of fashion now?

Not sure about now, but that was the best part of school. Talking theories and possibilities made us WANT to learn more, and we had to do the study ourselves to figure it out. It was a great learning tool.

 

[editec]

The purpose of schools is to educate the children.

Grades are merely a way of telling kids how they're doing.

That system stinks, folks, it really does.

We can do better. We can do much better.

We really can design lesson plans for each kid if we're willing to invest in education. It's called diagnostic proscriptive educating. It works beautifully.

The child is tested first to see what they know and understand and then based on those tests an edcuational plan is specifically designed for them.

Sadly we're too busy pissing away money on foolish things to invest in the kind of tools and resources such systems require.

 

[Amanda]

I still feel some sympathy for the teachers. School is an institution, and it is almost impossible for it to not act like an institution.

I do too. I wouldn't want their job, not the way it is right now anyway. I agree very strongly with the "institution" part.