Are Students Coddled? Schools Get Rid of 'F's

[Steerpike]

I don't understand why you think allowing students to retake classes they've failed is lowering standards. If they let them retake the class and pass them simply because they retook it I would agree with you. But that isn't what they do, at least not in my school district. To pass the class they must earn a passing grade using the same grading system the school already uses. If they don't pass it, they are stuck with a fail.

I think they should certainly be allowed to retake the class and succeed. No problem with that. But I think the renaming of the initial F in the class is at best a wash and at worst a 'lowering of standards' in the sense that you're moving away from being honest with the child and letting them accept the fact that they'd failed at the class. I don't see a reason to sugar coat it, and I am not sure it would be helpful.

 

[Paulie]

I didn't realize we were talking about multiple classes.

We weren't, necessarily. I brought it up in convo. The point is, failing a class isn't the end of the world. You can try again next year. And if you continue to fail classes, you just delay your graduation. It's all on YOU.

We don't need kids getting lifelines, we need them trying as hard as they can the first time around. Make the most of your opportunity.

You could always go live in Zimbabwe, or something, where life is REALLY grand!

 

[Mr. President]

Don't you mean 80%?

I wonder what % of children are failing due to dyslexia...

Center for Dyslexia

Yes I was being a Smart A when I wrote %08 instead of 80% when talking baout percentage of kids without dyslexia.

 

[Ravi]

You all don't seem to mind then that they retake the class, only that they don't call the initial grade an F?

Kind of silly, IMO, since I'm pretty sure the kids know what H means.

 

[Steerpike]

You all don't seem to mind then that they retake the class, only that they don't call the initial grade an F?

Kind of silly, IMO, since I'm pretty sure the kids know what H means.

That's why I said at best it is a wash, so why change it? At worst, it may detract from what can be a valuable lesson: "Oh, crap. I FAILED. I better put more effort into this."

But even assuming you are correct in all cases, that would argue against changing the status quo because there is no benefit to the change.

 

[Paulie]

You all don't seem to mind then that they retake the class, only that they don't call the initial grade an F?

Kind of silly, IMO, since I'm pretty sure the kids know what H means.

No, we WANT them to call the initial grade an F. We DO mind about that.

When you retake the class again, you start over. That's what you get for failing the class. Maybe this time around you'll realize how important those credits are.

We had a couple 5 and 6 year plan'ers in my HS. They WEREN'T cool, no matter how cool it might have seemed to be that old.

 

[Angel Heart]

Yes I was being a Smart A when I wrote %08 instead of 80% when talking baout percentage of kids without dyslexia.

Nothing like another myth about dyslexia.

MYTH:
Dyslexia means you see things backwards.
FACT:
If it were that simple, we could solve the problem by having dyslexic children hold their books in front of a mirror.

Research has proven that people with dyslexia do NOT see things backwards.

Dyslexia

 

[Ravi]

That's why I said at best it is a wash, so why change it? At worst, it may detract from what can be a valuable lesson: "Oh, crap. I FAILED. I better put more effort into this."

But even assuming you are correct in all cases, that would argue against changing the status quo because there is no benefit to the change.

Okay, I can see that. I don't think it matters, but at least I understand your point.

 

[Mr. President]

Nothing like another myth about dyslexia.



Dyslexia

I understand what dyslexia is it was intended purely as sarcasm

 

[Ravi]

No, we WANT them to call the initial grade an F. We DO mind about that.

When you retake the class again, you start over. That's what you get for failing the class. Maybe this time around you'll realize how important those credits are.

We had a couple 5 and 6 year plan'ers in my HS. They WEREN'T cool, no matter how cool it might have seemed to be that old.

And they called the grades Fs then, right? I dunno, I can hear you but I can't understand what you are saying.

And you did object to them making up failing grades.

 

[Paulie]

And they called the grades Fs then, right? I dunno, I can hear you but I can't understand what you are saying.

And you did object to them making up failing grades.

Feel free to agree with me anytime now, Rav.

 

[Ravi]

Feel free to agree with me anytime now, Rav.

I'd like to, but you are all over this thread saying that letting kids make up their failed grades is somehow a bad thing.

 

[Diuretic]

I'd like to, but you are all over this thread saying that letting kids make up their failed grades is somehow a bad thing.

And that's the point. There seems to be a comprehension problem here, perhaps it's the ideological blinkers (blinders)? This is about education, it's not about labelling winners and losers, especially at an early age. Of course they should be able to make up for failed grades. If the point of an education is development to the fullest of their ability then they should be given opportunities, within reason, to so develop to their potential.

 

[Annie]

I got an F twice in high school, and in neither case would an extra 12 weeks have made a difference.

Failing grades don't catch students or teachers by surprise. They know there's a problem well before the end of the term. I think these extentions will be wasted in most cases.

Agreed. My 7th grade class this year is a wonder to behold. We've gotten back their standardized tests and it's the first class I've ever had where all but four are within 4 pts of 100, (not an IQ, just sounds like it. ) The 'low' was 89, the other three were above 104, the highest 128.

Yet, they are the worst class about doing assignments and their tests are abysmal. I actually laid out $50 to be able to post quizzes and activities so they could review online from home. This morning I basically laid out how to do their essays, organizational wise. I told them the topics, but not the actual way they'd have to approach the topic, (compare and contrast, analyze, predict...). I gave them time to use their text to write a 'practice essay.'

Graded them during my free period. High 88%, Low 38%, most are in 70's.

Class as a whole:

Class Average Statistics
High 93.3%
Low 59.34%
Mean 78.04%
Median 80%

Our grading scale (tough)

Grading Scale
A+ 100 C 79
A 96 C- 77
A- 93 D+ 75
B+ 91 D 72
B 88 D- 70
B- 85 F 0
C+ 83

Their 'scores' are higher than their performance, as I grade homework as full points, IF they correct mistakes and add important missing information. About every 5 weeks, I collect their notebooks and grade those based upon taking notes and making corrections to their homework. Their highest notebook grade replaces their lowest test grade, IF it's better.

Are they being 'coddled?' Indeed. Yet by the time I get them in middle school, they are so conditioned to 'working with a group' and being given certain 'projects' to finish as a group, that we just are attempting to teach, while getting them ready for high school.

I had one kid today say, "You keep giving us chapter tests, why not give us just 'section tests', it's too much information?" I explained that was the reason to keep their section quizzes and study them before the test. His reply, "It's too much work."

 

[Ravi]

And that's the point. There seems to be a comprehension problem here, perhaps it's the ideological blinkers (blinders)? This is about education, it's not about labelling winners and losers, especially at an early age. Of course they should be able to make up for failed grades. If the point of an education is development to the fullest of their ability then they should be given opportunities, within reason, to so develop to their potential.

We seem to be in the minority on this subject.

Just out of curiosity, I checked with my uber-conservative sister-in-law who teaches middle school social studies and she agreed with me so I'm not as crazy as I think I am.



I don't know how it is down under, but here it has gotten to the point that if you don't have a college degree you should resign yourself to a life time of crime. So, IMO, the more you educate children in public school, the better they, and we all, are off in the long run.

 

[Paulie]

Just out of curiosity, I checked with my uber-conservative sister-in-law who teaches middle school social studies and she agreed with me so I'm not as crazy as I think I am.

Um, if the last 8 years isn't tantamount to the lack of common sense and intelligence among many conservatives, I don't know what is.

The fact that you might lend credence to one simply because their opinion matches yours makes you that crazy, and THEN some.

 

[Diuretic]

We seem to be in the minority on this subject.

Just out of curiosity, I checked with my uber-conservative sister-in-law who teaches middle school social studies and she agreed with me so I'm not as crazy as I think I am.



I don't know how it is down under, but here it has gotten to the point that if you don't have a college degree you should resign yourself to a life time of crime. So, IMO, the more you educate children in public school, the better they, and we all, are off in the long run.

Just on that last point, if you really want a decent living here, get a trade apprenticeship, it pays much better than a white collar job requiring a degree! Of course medicine and law are the big earners but young doctors and young lawyers do it really tough for the first few years. Now I'm getting off topic though.

 

[Ravi]

Um, if the last 8 years isn't tantamount to the lack of common sense and intelligence among many conservatives, I don't know what is.

The fact that you might lend credence to one simply because their opinion matches yours makes you that crazy, and THEN some.

heh, I said conservative, not republican. Believe it or not, there is a difference.

 

[Annie]

And that's the point. There seems to be a comprehension problem here, perhaps it's the ideological blinkers (blinders)? This is about education, it's not about labelling winners and losers, especially at an early age. Of course they should be able to make up for failed grades. If the point of an education is development to the fullest of their ability then they should be given opportunities, within reason, to so develop to their potential.

Repeating a class is the norm, after failure. Erasing the failure is not. One would expect that the second, third time around will result in a better grade.

Average, aka GPA

 

[Diuretic]

Repeating a class is the norm, after failure. Erasing the failure is not. One would expect that the second, third time around will result in a better grade.

Average, aka GPA

Repeating a class or a unit of work isn't unusual, heck you can even ask for a re-submit at uni. I agree that there shouldn't be an erasing of failure, surely a second attempt or a re-submit or whatever should be on a student's record so that any patterns can be observed. I assume also that we're referring to formative assessment here?