Are native americans similar to Palestinians, yes or no, and why?

[actsnoblemartin]

The reason, i made this post, was because my other post, got off topic, and I like when topics stay on topic

 

[Shogun]

I believe that we can find lessons in the hisotric record of human behaviour that will allow us to understand current events beyond rhetorical talking points and an aversion to that which seems to weaken the arguement we personally side with.

I would argue that the same type of violent reaction to percieved persicution could be found in Ireland, South America, South Africa, North America and others. I would rather consider the historic reality, even if it undermines the team jersey, rather than ignore it and be doomed to repeat another Trail of Tears solution to cultural conflict.



ANYONE who thinks that Pals and Natives cant be compared please let me know how you would react to the formation of Atzlan in the AMERICAN southwest...


I am betting that validating a 5000 year old claim to Israel all of a sudden is inconvenient when faced with the reality of a North American indegenous population hellbent of creating their own version of a nation like Israel.

 

[90K]

Being part Indian myself (seems everyone claims that these days) But our tree goes back to Quanah Parker. I’m thinking who knew? I didn't for a long time. Well see the Indians were doing fine until the white man corrupted them with Liquor. Now had the Jews introduced the PALs to something mind altering or additive drug then maybe we’d see it in another way. My post might not make sense but all indigenous people have fallen to the white man around the world. So I can’t say we couldn't really compare the Native Americans to PAL folk.

 

[Shogun]

Thank you for input on a sensitive subject.

Thank you for input that is not ad hominem tripe...



and I agree, seems like everyone claims Native blood and, somehow, related to jesse James and someone who signed the Decleration of Independance....

 

[90K]

ad hominem tripe

I was being serious of sorts here. See the PAL are all bent out of shape over land, as should be the indians. The indians got a really bad deal throught out history. Haven't all races been given a bad deal throughtout time? PAL folk have started a war over territory, but given the history here it won't ever change because of the deep seated hatred.

 

[Shogun]

I do not mean to sound critical of your input.. I do appriciate various opinions that are not merely jabs at motivations.


I understand the deep seated hatred and am betting the scotts felt the same about the brits and the native americans felt the same about the white man.

Do you think that this hatred can ever become something else given the correct motivation?

 

[roomy]

This is for an essay you are doing in school isn't it? You should have said so, what do you want to know?

 

[90K]

I do not mean to sound critical of your input.. I do appriciate various opinions that are not merely jabs at motivations.


I understand the deep seated hatred and am betting the scotts felt the same about the brits and the native americans felt the same about the white man.

Do you think that this hatred can ever become something else given the correct motivation?

Every race in the world has had to deal with, slavery, discrimination, being pushed from their native lands, and hatred. This situation isn't unique and because it has such a long history this very question will be asked until the end of time. It doesn't really need some in-depth answer of to be dissected to get that one good answer.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

the palestinians, generally speaking, along with some other arab nations want to kill all the jews of israel, and wipe israel off the map. Europeans had no historical claim to the u.s.a., when they came here, the jews did, as do christians by the way. The native americans were fighting for survival, not to kill all white men, I believe they would have lived with white men peacefully, after all they helped lewis and clarke. Now, the native americans in america, were not joined by natives in other countries, hoping to defeat the newly settled europeans. The jews came back to israel, in droves after the holocaust, to re-claim their homeland, while europeans, never lived in america, never, had they even been there, or discovered it. The lands you speak of did not belong solely to arabs, they belonged to jews, and christians as well. Therefore, the native population was NOT only arabs, and in fact, arabs in israel have persecuted christians for centuries, and when israelies lived under arab rule, they were treated as second class citizens. The arabs stole the holy land from the christians, who stole it from the jews lol. Bottom line, the land is the NOT only arabs, so jews did not steal if from themselves, and have 1 million arabs in israel with them, did the europeans allow 1 million or any natives to live in the newly formed u.s.a.

Therefore I conclude, similiar, maybe?, same, not even close

http://www.pmw.org.il/

 

[Shogun]

jews are not the only people to feel the heel of persicution, dude...

it's true


ps...


can you find any similarity in the following behaviour and what youll find in palestine? One day we will either understand the root of this type of conflict without simply jumping to accusations of jew hatred OR we will repeat another round of manifest destiny-like accepted genocide.


Explosive found at Austin women's clinic
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4752415.html


Feds Raid Alabama Militia Group, Uncover Small Weapons Arsenal
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,268726,00.html

 

[actsnoblemartin]

jews are not the only people to feel the heel of persicution, dude...

it's true


ps...


can you find any similarity in the following behaviour and what youll find in palestine? One day we will either understand the root of this type of conflict without simply jumping to accusations of jew hatred OR we will repeat another round of manifest destiny-like accepted genocide.


Explosive found at Austin women's clinic
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4752415.html


Feds Raid Alabama Militia Group, Uncover Small Weapons Arsenal
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,268726,00.html

I never said jews are the only ones hated. Blacks are hated, gays are hated, whites are hated, asians are hated, anyone can be hate or be hated.

 

[Shogun]

Militia raid targets weapons
Explosives, ammo found; 6 men arrested
Friday, April 27, 2007
CAROL ROBINSON, KENT FAULK and VAL WALTON
News staff writers

Simultaneous raids carried out in four Alabama counties Thursday turned up truckloads of explosives and weapons, including 130 grenades, an improvised rocket launcher and 2,500 rounds of ammunition belonging to the small, but mightily armed, Alabama Free Militia.

Six alleged members of the Free Militia also were arrested by federal authorities and are being held without bond.

Investigators said the DeKalb County-based group had not made any specific threats or devised any plots, but was targeted for swift dismantling because of its heavy firepower. The militia, which called itself the Naval Militia at one point, had enough armament to outfit a small army.

"We classify these groups as violent and anti-government," said Jim Cavanaugh, who supervises the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives operations in portions of the South. "They stockpile things and live off a fear, a paranoia they're going to need weapons and explosives because some event is going to happen when they will need them."

"Any time you have a self-appointed colonel or a self-appointed major and they've got weapons and explosives, it is a recipe for tragedy," Cavanaugh said.

The ATF investigation, launched about seven weeks ago, climaxed Thursday with more than 150 federal, state and local law enforcement officers carrying out raids in DeKalb, Marshall, Etowah and Jefferson counties beginning about 6 a.m.

The massive operation forced the closing of Collinsville High School on U.S. 11 because of traffic concerns. In Trussville, authorities rented a U-Haul truck to cart away the load of explosives and weapons from a house.

Agents encountered booby traps at one site. They found trip wires and two hand grenades rigged as booby traps at the Collinsville camper home of 46-year-old Raymond Dillard, who holds titles of both militia major and fugitive from justice on an unrelated federal case in Mobile.

"We were prepared," Cavanaugh said. "We suspect booby traps with these types of groups."

Arrested and detained in federal custody were Dillard, also known as Jeff Osborne, 46, of Collinsville; Adam Lynn Cunningham, 41, of Collinsville; Bonnell Hughes, 57, of Crossville; Randall Garrett Cole, 22, of Gadsden; James Ray McElroy, 20, of Collinsville; and Michael Wayne Bobo, 30, of Trussville.

All but Bobo are charged with conspiracy to make a firearm, which carries a maximum penalty of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. Bobo is charged with being a drug user in possession of a firearm, which carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

The six men appeared Thursday afternoon in Birmingham's federal courthouse before U.S. Magistrate Judge Robert Armstrong Jr. The men were being held Thursday night in the Shelby County jail.

According to the criminal complaint, ATF and the Alabama State Fire Marshal's Office used a confidential informant to infiltrate the militia, using video and audio recordings to document their grenade-making exploits. The informant met Dillard at a DeKalb County flea market called "Trade Day" in the late fall and Dillard told him about the Free Militia.

The informant was eventually accepted into the organization and given the title "sergeant major." In the following weeks, the informant provided agents details of the group's activities.

In one instance, the complaint described how Dillard grabbed one of four grenades from a coffee table, quickly put a fuse and shotgun-type primer inside and said, "That's how easy it is. This one's ready to go."

Guns and ammo:

All six men were taken into custody without incident.

"We took them by surprise," said DeKalb County Sheriff Jimmy Harris.

Authorities wouldn't pinpoint a leader, but said Dillard called himself the major. In addition to the booby traps, authorities recovered a long gun and a pistol from his home.

Recovered from Cunningham's Collinsville home were stolen commercial fireworks, improvised hand grenades, fuse assemblies and a half-dozen guns. At Hughes' Crossville home, agents found 100 improvised hand grenades, 70 improvised hand grenades fired from the 37 mm rocket launch, a submachine gun and two silencers.

An SKS rifle was found at McElroy's home.

In Jefferson County, authorities said they had to rent a truck to handle the bomb-making material from Bobo's home, as well as 2,500 rounds of ammunition and 12 guns.

Bobo was living with his adoptive parents in the Lancshire Brentwood neighborhood in Trussville, a fairly new subdivision near the Cahaba Project with tree-lined streets and brick homes that cost upward of $600,000. He worked for his family's pest control company.

His red pickup truck, usually parked at the house, displays bumper stickers such as "Welcome to the South, Now Go Home," "The Second Amendment: `You do not know you need it until they come to take it away' - Thomas Jefferson" and "Work Harder, Millions on Welfare Depend on You."

Common profile:

In general, militias and patriot movements are anti-government and given to conspiracy theories and paranoia, said Mark Potok, director of the Intelligence Project for the Southern Poverty Law Center. The organization keeps track of hate groups and their activities throughout the country. They also are known for stockpiling illegal weapons and even manufacturing them, he said.

The militia movement in Alabama and the rest of the country hit a peak in the mid-1990s, as the groups rallied after the bloody 1993 siege at the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, and the 1992 shoot-out in Ruby Ridge, Idaho, between former Green Beret Randy Weaver and federal agents. The number of militia or "patriot" groups in the United States dwindled from a high of almost 900 in the mid-1990s to fewer than 200 by 2005.

A combination of factors, including the Sept. 11 attacks, caused many groups to draw back from the extreme acts of Olympic Park bomber Eric Robert Rudolph or Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber.

"It became less popular for someone to rail against America," Cavanaugh said. "It's not so sexy for them to be around, and therefore they don't get a lot of public attention."

Cavanaugh said militia groups still pop up from time to time, and authorities' goal is to intercept them before the threat becomes a tragedy.

"Whatever their paranoia was, whatever their reasons were, we think we've taken their weapons, the majority of them, certainly," Cavanaugh said. "The good news is hopefully today Alabama is free of the Alabama Free Militia."

News staff writers Anita Debro and Lisa Osburn contributed to this report. [email protected]

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1177661759187830.xml&coll=2&thispage=3