Im really beginning to think some people can not think or listen, simply because

actsnoblemartin

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they disagree with my content or dont like my tone of typing?

Very lame....

Look hunny, nazi youth, how adorable :)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HlaVpqUXF0[/ame]
 

Shogun

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fanatics are not an invention of the palestinians..

That is not the first example of violent doctrine instilled upon the next generation to grace the earth, eh? I guess the scarrier question to ask is why they feel threatened enough to feel it necessary to react like bees do when the bear is looking for honey>
 

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Uneducated, ignorant terrorists.
 

Shogun

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anyone can throw ad hominems around...

Im sure the phrase "savage injun" appealed to those who were not at all interested in understanding why American Natives were busy scalping white people while being continually marginalized by manifest destiny too. Why consider the perspective of others when a FINAL SOLUTION is easier on the ego, eh?
 

roomy

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anyone can throw ad hominems around...

Im sure the phrase "savage injun" appealed to those who were not at all interested in understanding why American Natives were busy scalping white people while being continually marginalized by manifest destiny too. Why consider the perspective of others when a FINAL SOLUTION is easier on the ego, eh?
And who may I ask are you prattling on at?
 

Shogun

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the person who seems to be purposfully keeping his mind narrow enough to rationalize prattling off the modern verson of "savage injun".


Would you care to discuss the topic of the thread or will demonizing the other team suffice?



"When a white army battles Indians and wins, it is called a great victory, but if they lose it is called a massacre." - Chiksika, Shawnee

"When it comes time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home." - Chief Aupumut (1725), Mohican.

“Whenever the white man treats the Indian as they treat each other, then we will have no more wars. We shall all be alike--brothers of one father and one another, with one sky above us and one country around us, and one governmnet for all.” - Chief Joseph, Nez Perce

"I am a red man. If the Great Spirit had desired me to be a white man he would have made me so in the first place. He put in your heart certain wishes and plans, in my heart he put other and different desires. Each man is good in his sight. It is not necessary for Eagles to be Crows. We are poor..but we are free. No white man controls our footsteps. If we must die...we die defending our rights." - Sitting Bull, Hunkpapa Sioux
 

roomy

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the person who seems to be purposfully keeping his mind narrow enough to rationalize prattling off the modern verson of "savage injun".


Would you care to discuss the topic of the thread or will demonizing the other team suffice?



"When a white army battles Indians and wins, it is called a great victory, but if they lose it is called a massacre." - Chiksika, Shawnee

"When it comes time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home." - Chief Aupumut (1725), Mohican.

“Whenever the white man treats the Indian as they treat each other, then we will have no more wars. We shall all be alike--brothers of one father and one another, with one sky above us and one country around us, and one governmnet for all.” - Chief Joseph, Nez Perce

"I am a red man. If the Great Spirit had desired me to be a white man he would have made me so in the first place. He put in your heart certain wishes and plans, in my heart he put other and different desires. Each man is good in his sight. It is not necessary for Eagles to be Crows. We are poor..but we are free. No white man controls our footsteps. If we must die...we die defending our rights." - Sitting Bull, Hunkpapa Sioux
Are you seriously likening the Hezbollah to Native Ameican Indians?

You did watch the video didn't you?

I believe you are being deliberately obtuse, trying to court controversy for your own entertainment.If I am wrong then there are other excuses for you which I may or may not delve into later.
 

Gunny

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anyone can throw ad hominems around...

Im sure the phrase "savage injun" appealed to those who were not at all interested in understanding why American Natives were busy scalping white people while being continually marginalized by manifest destiny too. Why consider the perspective of others when a FINAL SOLUTION is easier on the ego, eh?
No problem-o.

Let's do a comparison: Secular society that is mostly tolerant of any and everything not too far out, where one can achieve as far as amibtion will
take then

vs

Authoritarian theocracy determined to return the world to 7th century Sharia Law whether or not it wants to, and intolerant of anyone who disagrees, and anything contrary to it, and is willing to murder anything in its way to achieve it's end.

Tough choice.

As far as you "savage injun" analogy goes, let's don't try and paint Native Americans as above reproach when in fact, they were not. Attrocities were committed on both sides. The "white man" is only villified because the red man lost, and a century and a half later everyone wants to forget what a Comantse warrior sitting on top of a horse in full war regalia with fresh scalps hanging from his lance looks like in favor of Chief Iron Eyes Cody.
 

Shogun

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Are you seriously likening the Hezbollah to Native Ameican Indians?

You did watch the video didn't you?

I believe you are being deliberately obtuse, trying to court controversy for your own entertainment.If I am wrong then there are other excuses for you which I may or may not delve into later.

Are you suggesting that Native Americans during the American conflict with the lands natives were NOT as hellbent on keeping their culture and land enough to act just as fanatical about what they see as defending their lifestyle?

Yes, to answer your question, I am comparing the two because I dont believe that violent social reactions are unique to any particular ethnic group at any particular moment in history any more than any other ethnic group has a predisposition to eating watermelon and chicken and working the cotton field.

Yes, I did watch the video.. and Im willing to bet money, marbles and chalk that the gathering around the bonfire the night before wounded knee looked much the same...

After all.. IVE quoted actual historic words uttered from the mouthsof those who might very well have understood how the pals might feel about nations blooming in the backyard..

Would you care to offer more than a plastic exasperation?
 

Shogun

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No problem-o.

Let's do a comparison: Secular society that is mostly tolerant of any and everything not too far out, where one can achieve as far as amibtion will
take then

vs

Authoritarian theocracy determined to return the world to 7th century Sharia Law whether or not it wants to, and intolerant of anyone who disagrees, and anything contrary to it, and is willing to murder anything in its way to achieve it's end.

Tough choice.

As far as you "savage injun" analogy goes, let's don't try and paint Native Americans as above reproach when in fact, they were not. Attrocities were committed on both sides. The "white man" is only villified because the red man lost, and a century and a half later everyone wants to forget what a Comantse warrior sitting on top of a horse in full war regalia with fresh scalps hanging from his lance looks like in favor of Chief Iron Eyes Cody.


Im sorry, Gunny.. the complete social genocide of nations of natives so that we may now have Oklahoma and Nebraska isn't really the first thing I like to brag about in American history. You may reserve your opinion about their society when viewed through the lens of ethnocentrism, which im sure they do too when forming opinions about OUR culture, but to me your arguement is about as significant as rationalizing the conquering of natives so that they can have shoes and christianity. I would suggest that it would be quite difficult to convince an amish woman that her time would be better served in a thong on the beach while she is content in her choice of a lifestyle. YES.. attrocities were committed on both sides.. but that in no way shape or form removed the FACT that the entire conflict in American history with the lands natives is derived from land encroachment and a percieved (ultimatly true) threat to native culture. Trail of Tears, sir. They reacted just like the Pals have been reacting. I would rather consider the reality of the conflict and brainstorm strategy that doesnt lead to another rationalized genocide. I believe that there can be more options than simply killing em all...


after all...

I garentee that WE would be quicker to find an amicable solution if we were in the role of the natives and pals rather than the shoes of conquistadors and colonialists.....
 

roomy

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Are you suggesting that Native Americans during the American conflict with the lands natives were NOT as hellbent on keeping their culture and land enough to act just as fanatical about what they see as defending their lifestyle?

Yes, to answer your question, I am comparing the two because I dont believe that violent social reactions are unique to any particular ethnic group at any particular moment in history any more than any other ethnic group has a predisposition to eating watermelon and chicken and working the cotton field.

Yes, I did watch the video.. and Im willing to bet money, marbles and chalk that the gathering around the bonfire the night before wounded knee looked much the same...

After all.. IVE quoted actual historic words uttered from the mouthsof those who might very well have understood how the pals might feel about nations blooming in the backyard..

Would you care to offer more than a plastic exasperation?

One of my pet subjects the Indian wars.I still fail to see how your analogy equates with fanatical terrorists? Explain please, you could even try quoting members of any other terrorist organisations you would like to champion if you think it will further your argument.
 

Shogun

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"I would like to champion"?


obviously you are interested in scoring points. I guess it is easy to SAY that one of your pet topics is the Native American wars rather than prove as much with an arguement void of a little passive-aggresiveness.... After all, again, IM the only one of us to actually resort to an historic example so far... Instead of trying to prompt a reaction why don't YOU explain YOUR opinion?

Humor me and present an arguement suggesting otherwise instead of trying to sneak in lame jabs at my motivations and perhaps your input will be interesting enough to reply to.
 

roomy

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"I would like to champion"?


obviously you are interested in scoring points. I guess it is easy to SAY that one of your pet topics is the Native American wars rather than prove as much with an arguement void of a little passive-aggresiveness.... After all, again, IM the only one of us to actually resort to an historic example so far... Instead of trying to prompt a reaction why don't YOU explain YOUR opinion?

Humor me and present an arguement suggesting otherwise instead of trying to sneak in lame jabs at my motivations and perhaps your input will be interesting enough to reply to.

I don't need to present proof of the fact that your analogy is bullshit, it speaks for itself and stands as testament.If you wish to talk about 'The Native American Wars' then by all means do, I believe you would have to start another thread or suffer accusations of derailment:cool:

If I were to take your scenic route, I could start with ancient Britain and list every invading army through the ages quoting historical figures as I go, then I could list all the nations Britain conquered and put up even more quotes......etc.......
 

Gunny

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Im sorry, Gunny.. the complete social genocide of nations of natives so that we may now have Oklahoma and Nebraska isn't really the first thing I like to brag about in American history. You may reserve your opinion about their society when viewed through the lens of ethnocentrism, which im sure they do too when forming opinions about OUR culture, but to me your arguement is about as significant as rationalizing the conquering of natives so that they can have shoes and christianity. I would suggest that it would be quite difficult to convince an amish woman that her time would be better served in a thong on the beach while she is content in her choice of a lifestyle. YES.. attrocities were committed on both sides.. but that in no way shape or form removed the FACT that the entire conflict in American history with the lands natives is derived from land encroachment and a percieved (ultimatly true) threat to native culture. Trail of Tears, sir. They reacted just like the Pals have been reacting. I would rather consider the reality of the conflict and brainstorm strategy that doesnt lead to another rationalized genocide. I believe that there can be more options than simply killing em all...


after all...

I garentee that WE would be quicker to find an amicable solution if we were in the role of the natives and pals rather than the shoes of conquistadors and colonialists.....
The stronger more modernized society pushing out the older, outdated society has been the way of Man since time began. Those that we call Native Americans pushed others off the land who were there before them. The Mound People/Anansazi/Karankawa/Coahuiltican all were displced by the relatively modern Native American.

My ancestors would not have come here from Scotland had they not been pushed off their land, nor would their ancestors have left what is currently Norway, Sweden had they not been pushed for one reason or another.

True Palestinians have not existed for centuries, and they were Southern Mediterranean, not Arabs. They disappeared long ago. Those now calling themselves Palestinians are Transjordan Arabs or descendent thereof. Transjordan, as part of the Ottoman Empire ended up on the wrong side of WWI.

The Balfour Agreement ceded land to Israel from what was then a British mandate, even though it was not acted upon until after WWII. Basically, the European nations figured out a way to make a home for the Jews FAR away from Europe so they wouldn't have the problem to deal with, never envisioning an ever-shrinking world.

I don't see anyone attempting to commit genocide; which, in and of itself is a misnomer since, as stated before, current Palestinians are Arabs, and "Palestinian" is not a race.

In fact, the opposite is true since it is the stated goal of several Arab states and/or their terrorist organization surrogates to wipe Israel from the Earth.

Israel had all the cards. They didn't have to give the Pali's squat. They did anyway.

IMO this is BS fabricated and sold by those who make money off of fomenting hatred and war, and otherwise wouldn't have a job, or would have to get a real one.
 

Gunny

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I don't need to present proof of the fact that your analogy is bullshit, it speaks for itself and stands as testament.If you wish to talk about 'The Native American Wars' then by all means do, I believe you would have to start another thread or suffer accusations of derailment:cool:

If I were to take your scenic route, I could start with ancient Britain and list every invading army through the ages quoting historical figures as I go, then I could list all the nations Britain conquered and put up even more quotes......etc.......
Excuse me, Brit, but you don't want to go there. You're probably a direct descendent of William Longshanks and just general all around nefarious collaborator with Clan Campbell.:evil:
 

Shogun

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I don't need to present proof of the fact that your analogy is bullshit, it speaks for itself and stands as testament.If you wish to talk about 'The Native American Wars' then by all means do, I believe you would have to start another thread or suffer accusations of derailment:cool:

If I were to take your scenic route, I could start with ancient Britain and list every invading army through the ages quoting historical figures as I go, then I could list all the nations Britain conquered and put up even more quotes......etc.......


History does not happen in a vacuum, but alas, I see that you are not interested in presenting anything close to a relevant arguement so much as you are looking for a target to spit at...

so be it.

perhaps you and Red States Rule can get together and give each other a back rub or something. He will probably actually be impressed with your, uh, giant knowledge of American Native history more than I am...


History does not happen in a vacuum... Perhaps someone else will
 

roomy

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History does not happen in a vacuum, but alas, I see that you are not interested in presenting anything close to a relevant arguement so much as you are looking for a target to spit at...

so be it.

perhaps you and Red States Rule can get together and give each other a back rub or something. He will probably actually be impressed with your, uh, giant knowledge of American Native history more than I am...


History does not happen in a vacuum... Perhaps someone else will
This thread isn't about Native American history you silly little man, it has become you trying to make it so.:eusa_naughty:
 

roomy

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Excuse me, Brit, but you don't want to go there. You're probably a direct descendent of William Longshanks and just general all around nefarious collaborator with Clan Campbell.:evil:

Or......kill me now.....some smelly french dude that drifted over in 1066:sad:
 
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actsnoblemartin

actsnoblemartin

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American indians were trying to survive, palestinians terrorists are trying to kill all the jews, with all due respect to shogun, and i mean this seriously, since, palestinian children are taught... http://www.pmw.org.il/ to hate jews, and die for allah, I dont see how or what that has to do with american indians, I think you're living in the past shogun. American indians dont have anything to do with modern day palestinians.
 

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