Are conservative values dying? If so, why?

[DiamondDave]

Personal responsibility and doing things for yourself is not easy.. hence why many do not support conservatism in politics or economics.. they want it easier, and the way to do it is to use power in numbers to have government confiscate what you want.... you want your weird actions justified, go to the progressives who will say everything is ok (as long as you vote to keep them in office and support their huge programs that they will create to prop up your behaviors).. what the voting dummies who vote for such things do not realize, is that while the progressives preach freedom or equality or justice, they are growing government and government power to an extent that it inherently reduced freedom

 

[nodoginnafight]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

I find it very hard to believe it's based on free shit. Not enough Americans are on the public dole to make up for the shift. The left has been successful with their message communication. Be it good or bad we are behind the curve.

I remember getting out of prison with 100 dollars (parole money) and thinking I couldn't wait to get a job and start my life. From being TOTALLY suppoeted by the tax payer to being TOTALLY independent and successful.No other feeling matches being self reliant and knowing I have options I can persue because of conservative values.

Almost makes me think that people have been coddled for so long they have no concept of their own potential.

IMHO: It all depends on how you define "conservative values."
If you define conservative values (as your posts suggests) as having a good work ethic than 1) no, it is alive and well and 2) that is not a "conservative" value.

Hyper-partisans always try to lump everything they see as good as being a part of their ideology and everything that is bad as part of "the other" ideology. It's juvenile.

"Conservative values" such as "Christian values" are not nearly as pervasive today as they were 40 or 50 years ago. As Christians it provides us with an opportunity to stand out from the crowd and to espouse loves, forgiveness, and humility as we've been instructed. When you blur the line between church as state then folks can look at people who are living victoriously and wonder who to give the credit to ... God or Uncle Sam.

I personally don't think Jesus was very "conservative" at all. So I'm not buying into any relationship between "conservative" and Christian other than a whole lot of "conservatives" think everyone ought to kneel before their own bastardized misinterpretation of Christainity.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The main issue is liberal and conservative are transient definitions.

To me the debate is between authoritarianism and the rights of the iindividual.

But as we sit today, that is the distinction between left and right.

We have a large contingent in this nation that yearns for authoritarianism, for the state to detail what is or is not allowed in all situations, rather than leaving this up to individuals.

Obama represents the freedom from responsibility for one's own life. The comfort of a ruler making all decisions and deciding the course that ones life will take. As America has descended into perpetual childhood, it became inevitable that someone like Obama would arise, a parent to keep the children safe and obedient.

 

[LoneLaugher]

If "serious" questions weren't loaded with bullshit indictments, they might get more serious replies.

I gave you my hypothesis and personal thoughts. I see you have no rebuttal other than to troll.

Dude......

You essentially said that we have become more liberal over time because we have been coddled too much. And.....you went on about your work ethic like it is a foreign concept to liberals.

Both bullshit indictments of liberals.

 

[Avatar4321]

The Conservative movement is dying because it has been hijacked by low voltage brains.

It used to be a Conservative was the smartest person in the room. Reading Bill Buckley each week was like breathing pure oxygen.

Today, reading an allegedly "conservative" media outlet is like sucking on a tailpipe. Cerebral suicide.

I'm sick of the parroting retards unquestioningly regurgitating the bullshit shoveled into their slack-jawed mouths. The only "values" in the "conservative" movement these days are, "Whatever makes the other guys look or sound bad, regardless of whether it is true."

Chairman Bill is spinning in his grave.

Critical thinking and truth used to be the priority. No longer. Smearing the other guy takes precedence.

Nothing is EVER put on the table. Just look at the topics started here by the right wingers. All attacks. Nothing constructive is ever offered. Just hack attacks.

So when you speak of "values", um...WHAT values? I see nothing but hypocritical lip service and lies. Here are today's "Conservative" values: "We're great, you suck!"

Now if you will excuse me, I need to go read some Breitbart and find out how many rounds of golf Obama has played to date.

Modern leftism, starting under Clinton, and coming to fruition with Obama, is the rejection of any and all values. The left today is purged of any sort of integrity or code of ethics. That which serves the party is "good." That which does not is "bad."

Men like Buckley or Harry Browne cannot make an argument today, as the arguments they posited were meant for honest men. Today's left is not honest. Reason has no impact on those who reject the very concept of a priori knowledge. When the goals of the party define all, as it does with the Obamunist left, then reason has no place.

What was right yesterday is wrong today, dependent on the whims of a capricious ruler. The left rejects the concepts of immutable values, of ethics independent of party goals.

The #1 difference between left and right isn't the support of socialism over capitalism, or the support of authoritarianism over liberty, it is the rejection of ethics by the left.

If the other said wont honestly listen to the truth, that doesn't mean we should forgo the truth and start being @$$*#&@s.

 

[Freemason9]

The main issue is liberal and conservative are transient definitions.

To me the debate is between authoritarianism and the rights of the iindividual.

Absolutely--and how to achieve a reasonable balance in the reality of a growing population and economic stress.

 

[Uncensored2008]

If "serious" questions weren't loaded with bullshit indictments, they might get more serious replies.

You of the left have no rational retort. It is a fact that the American left is based on the rejection of ethics or a priori values.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Hardly... idiots such as yourself thinks that conservatism means everything just stagnates, nothing ever changes, etc.. it is like you think conservatives want things frozen in time..

By definition - that IS what conservative means. No change or very slow, very incremental change.

 

[Freemason9]

I believe it is. Our country seems to be veering to the left. Why?

I find it very hard to believe it's based on free shit. Not enough Americans are on the public dole to make up for the shift. The left has been successful with their message communication. Be it good or bad we are behind the curve.

I remember getting out of prison with 100 dollars (parole money) and thinking I couldn't wait to get a job and start my life. From being TOTALLY suppoeted by the tax payer to being TOTALLY independent and successful.No other feeling matches being self reliant and knowing I have options I can persue because of conservative values.

Almost makes me think that people have been coddled for so long they have no concept of their own potential.

Because it's easier to be valuless. It's easier to not think. Heck, even conservatives have problems in both of those areas.

On the other hand, it's easier to be afraid. It's easy to outsource our responsibilities to someone else. It's easier to think that someone else will take care of our problems and than just get angry and violent if someone else doesnt do everything for us.

It's easy to parrot nonsense and lie about others rather than look at ourselves and make corrections.

Conservatism/Libertarianism, as I understand it, requires individuals to work. It requires us to love liberty more than security, because we realize if we don't we lose both. it requires us to look at history and the world around us and learn the lessons of the past. That requires thought. It requires solutions to our problems instead of pretending to deal with symptoms of our problems. It requires making hard decisions that may need sacrifice.

It requires staying true despite temptations such as greed, power, promiscuity, etc.

Most people can't handle it. Conservatism may change if that's so, we need to stay true to the values under whatever name they are given.

It comes down to a set of values. For the most part, those on the right are on the right because it closer matches the values they already hold.

The values are not a result of the leaders of a party or the platform, but are held independently.

You entirely missed the "values" discussion, didn't you? This is why you have no friends.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The main issue is liberal and conservative are transient definitions.

To me the debate is between authoritarianism and the rights of the iindividual.

Absolutely--and how to achieve a reasonable balance in the reality of a growing population and economic stress.

And those have nothing to do with conservatism.
by definition.

 

[Uncensored2008]

By definition - that IS what conservative means. No change or very slow, very incremental change.

Nonsense.

{ a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change; specifically : such a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government regulation of business and investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs (as retirement income or health-care coverage) }

Conservatism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

 

[Avatar4321]

Okay, so you're not actually talking about these so-called "conservative values" anymore. Your complaint is that, in your opinion, people in general don't work hard enough.

I call bullshit.

People work PLENTY hard these days. American workers have fewer vacation days than in the past, get less sleep, have far worse wages and benefits, almost NO job security, and pay more for ******* everything. American workers are severely stressed by this American economic system. Yes, there is less respect for it now; Americans don't trust the system anymore, and recognize that most of our "leadership" are narcissistic sociopaths.

We have a new generation of hapless American working citizens that have to go into debt THOUSANDS of dollars just to educate themselves to the point of being employable.

Americans are increasingly saying **** IT, and I don't blame them.

Your so-called "conservative values" have been devastating to American workers. If there were decent wages for a day's work, maybe we wouldn't have this so-called "entitlement society." You created this; don't whine about it to me.

And whose fault is that? Oh yeah. The big government totalitarians who want every industry regulated, who artificially increase labor and education costs, the ones who are making us work 4-6 months to pay off the government before we see a cent in profit while they spend our children's and grandchildren's money.

And who is fighting against those things? Conservatives. Who's making it worse. YOU and your progressive allies.

 

[martybegan]

The main issue is liberal and conservative are transient definitions.

To me the debate is between authoritarianism and the rights of the iindividual.

But as we sit today, that is the distinction between left and right.

We have a large contingent in this nation that yearns for authoritarianism, for the state to detail what is or is not allowed in all situations, rather than leaving this up to individuals.

Obama represents the freedom from responsibility for one's own life. The comfort of a ruler making all decisions and deciding the course that ones life will take. As America has descended into perpetual childhood, it became inevitable that someone like Obama would arise, a parent to keep the children safe and obedient.

To me the trend is also up, towards more federal level regulation instead of local control.

The apparent ability to ignore the constitution when it fits them also is a hallmark of an authoritarian.

 

[The Infidel]

Michelle Malkin calls out Karl Rove | Michael Berry - NewsRadio 740 KTRH Houston News, Weather, Traffic

 

[Avorysuds]

The problem is quite simple... Progressives think they are the first people in the history of mankind to think up socialism. Thus they are retardedly pro big Government and anti personal freedoms. Most don’t even understand that by “allowing” something means you are still controlling what a person or people can and can’t do.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

If "serious" questions weren't loaded with bullshit indictments, they might get more serious replies.

I gave you my hypothesis and personal thoughts. I see you have no rebuttal other than to troll.

Dude......

You essentially said that we have become more liberal over time because we have been coddled too much. And.....you went on about your work ethic like it is a foreign concept to liberals.

Both bullshit indictments of liberals.

Work ethics go beyond your job. The same principles apply to school for some. For others they would rather hand out trophies for participation rather than a successful effort. Or pass children so it doesn't hurt them socially among peers despite it putting them behind the 8 ball for the rest of their lives. If that isn't coddling I don't know what is.

 

[rightwinger]

As a political movement......Conservatives have turned into a bunch of *****

Their message is clear. Take care of the wealthy and everyone else look out for themselves. They were once a party of personal responsibility, but when things don't go their way they look to blame everyone else

They scapegoat the poor, unions, immigrants, gays, women....anyone to distract attention away from the superwealthy getting richer while the rest of the nation struggles

 

[Uncensored2008]

You entirely missed the "values" discussion, didn't you? This is why you have no friends.

Again, the point is that the American left is based on the rejection of values and the concept of ethics. Party alone defines right or wrong to the left. Right and wrong are subject to change at the whim of Obama or other party rules. Things such as the detention of unlawful combatants that were "wrong" under Bush are "right" under Obama, because there is no ethical value behind it, only what the party dictates.

I note that your only retort is ad hominem attack.

 

[Avatar4321]

Uncensored2008 said:

The #1 difference between left and right isn't the support of socialism over capitalism, or the support of authoritarianism over liberty, it is the rejection of ethics by the left.

This is exactly the shit I'm referring to. What, exactly, do you mean by "ethics?" What in the **** makes you think that Donald Trump has ethics, and Chuck Hagel does not? This is why you have no friends.

Both idiots... Nice choices ya put out there.

Rand Paul is no idiot... Ted Cruz is no idiot... Marco Rubio is no idiot... Michelle Bauchmann is no idiot & my list goes on and on.

Go ahead, laugh now... I predict, we con$ will get the last laugh.

He will just declare Rand, Cruz, and Marco idiots. They already declared michelle to be one.

 

[Avatar4321]

As a political movement......Conservatives have turned into a bunch of *****

Their message is clear. Take care of the wealthy and everyone else look out for themselves. They were once a party of personal responsibility, but when things don't go their way they look to blame everyone else

They scapegoat the poor, unions, immigrants, gays, women....anyone to distract attention away from the superwealthy getting richer while the rest of the nation struggles

Attacking straw men doesnt make your bad positions any better.