Are Catholics Christian Part Deux.

[Nienna]

A friend of mine just jumped through those hoops to get married. At least in that branch of Catholocism.

My husband and I were married in the Catholic Church. But, we were both Catholic, so it wasn't a problem for us. I do feel kind of bad about it now, since I agreed to raise my kids Catholic, and we later converted to Protestantism. But I meant it at the time.

I remember at my cousin's wedding, she was saying her vows, and that included raising kids Catholic. My cousin kind of stumbled through that part bc she doesn't want to HAVE any kids. Too bad; she is gorgeous and smart, too.

 

[5stringJeff]

There is a very easy way to determine whether someone is Christian:

"f you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:9-13, emphasis mine)

Since Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox Christians all declare this, then all are Christians.

 

[5stringJeff]

Catholics are NOT a denomination. "Denomination" is what Protestantism is all about.

The Catholic Church is not a denomination (which means "to take a new name"); She is the Church. Those who are in schism, those who break away or subsist apart from Her are denominations or sects. She, the Church, is not. She is the Church.

So if only the Catholic Church is "the Church," then are Protestant congregations not part of "the Church?" And by extension, are the members of Protestant congregations not part of "the Church?"

 

[ScreamingEagle]

So if only the Catholic Church is "the Church," then are Protestant congregations not part of "the Church?" And by extension, are the members of Protestant congregations not part of "the Church?"

The very word describes it: Protestant. Let's not get into the Reformation but essentially the protestants were denying the authority of the Church. There are many differences between the Catholic Church and the Protestants. In fact, the number of Protestant churches has expanded and multiplied due to so many different "takes" on what they believe and have moved further and further away from the Church. They establish new sects and believe in just about anything they choose.

The Catholic Church professes to be the One, Holy, Catholic (Universal) and Apostolic Church which Christ established. It proclaims its right to govern, teach and sanctify that Church under the Apostolic authority given to it by Jesus Christ.

Belloc describes Protestantism as a denial of unity, pointing out that its underlying character denies that Christ established a visible Church; a definable and united personality; an infallible teaching body, a Person speaking with Divine authority.

Within the history of the Hebrew nation, understanding authority and adherence to the law was not only important, it was everything. Submission to the rules handed down by God was the foundation underlying the entire Mosaic Law. On the question of submission and obedience, Scripture makes it quite clear that there are no rebels in heaven.

Protestantism, says Belloc, is above all a denial of the one visible Church and denies the special authority of its bishops and priests. Protestantism professes the belief that there is no central infallible authority governing Christians and therefore each Christian is free to choose his own set of doctrines. Protestantism rejects the concept of unity through authority and, in doing so, is left with none at all.

Prior to the sixteenth century, the authority governing all Christianity was the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. The conscious disunion under Protestantism left no one "in charge" and accepted the inevitable chaos of living in anarchy. Without a visible authority to rule over dissenting opinions, the movement was doomed to a series of endless splits invited by its self-inflicted wound.

The Catholic Church defends its doctrine as being anchored in Sacred Scripture and presents its case in the well-documented Catechism of the Catholic Church published in 1994.

The Catholic Church holds that revealed truth is derived not only from Sacred Scripture but from two other sources as well:
1) The Traditions Handed Down by the Church throughout the centuries, and
2) The Teachings of the Magisterium of the Church as guided and protected by the Holy Spirit.

Protestantism professes a single source of revealed truth and all moral authority; that being the Bible itself. The interpretation of what is found in the Bible is left to each individual with no central authority to rule on conflicting interpretations or differences of opinions; it provides no authoritative resolution of disputes as they arise. This only points out the need for a single authentic interpreter of Sacred Scripture and that being the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

While Protestantism falls within the definition of a true heresy, the Catholic Church longs for the return of its members to the one visible Church and extends its invitation to unity under the endearing term addressed to: Our separated brethren.
http://www.catholicradiodramas.com/Articles/protestant_vs__catholic.htm

 

[Nienna]

The very word describes it: Protestant. Let's not get into the Reformation but essentially the protestants were denying the authority of the Church. There are many differences between the Catholic Church and the Protestants. In fact, the number of Protestant churches has expanded and multiplied due to so many different "takes" on what they believe and have moved further and further away from the Church. They establish new sects and believe in just about anything they choose.

But, let's not forget what the Protestants were protesting... the sale of indulgences being a biggie. It is not wrong to deny the authority of those who are doing wrong. In fact, IN DOING wrong, they abdicate their authority. Authority is God-given. If authority figures promote sin, then they are themselves denying the Ultimate Authority.

 

[Annie]

A friend of mine just jumped through those hoops to get married. At least in that branch of Catholocism.

There shouldn't be 'branches' of Catholocism, though I think in US there may well be. Yes, in the Catholic Church, if you wish to marry a person outside of the 'faith', you must pledge, promise, commit, to raising children within the faith.

As for 'branches of', I teach in a Catholic school that the church really is protestant. The pastor abhors the crucifix, Mary, stations of the cross. For the first 4 years I taught there, no crucifix in the church. But he wanted to remodel the church and the congregation basically replied, "Fine, we'll donate the 100k, but you will add a crucifix, Mary site, and bring the host into the Church..."

He added a pic of Mary in the back, A "crucifix" with the risen Christ, and a battery operated light to indicate the Host was in the Church.

On the other end of the spectrum of the Catholic Church, are those that say mass only in Latin. They've basically been excommunicated.

 

[mattskramer]

But, let's not forget what the Protestants were protesting... the sale of indulgences being a biggie. It is not wrong to deny the authority of those who are doing wrong. In fact, IN DOING wrong, they abdicate their authority. Authority is God-given. If authority figures promote sin, then they are themselves denying the Ultimate Authority.

Yeah. You also have leaders in protestant churches engaged in many sins too. Just consider the antics of Robert Tilton, Jim and Tammy Baker, Jimmy Swaggart to name a few.

 

[glockmail]

I've never heard of another denomination that does this. At some churches, it wasn't just a mere handshake, it was a hug & maybe a kiss. Gotta love that!

Our diocese holds hands during the Lord's Prayer, then shakes hands (offer a sign of peace). Always a good opportunity to grab a smooch from your spouse.

 

[glockmail]

A friend of mine just jumped through those hoops to get married. At least in that branch of Catholocism.

May have fooled the Priest, but not the Lord.

 

[Annie]

May have fooled the Priest, but not the Lord.

So your contention is that Catholics are not Christians?

 

[Nienna]

Yeah. You also have leaders in protestant churches engaged in many sins too. Just consider the antics of Robert Tilton, Jim and Tammy Baker, Jimmy Swaggart to name a few.

Agreed. Those people have also abdicated their authority as leaders.

 

[Nienna]

Our diocese holds hands during the Lord's Prayer, then shakes hands (offer a sign of peace). Always a good opportunity to grab a smooch from your spouse.

Ohhhh yeah! Kissing in church!

 

[Kagom]

Agreed. Those people have also abdicated their authority as leaders.

Coulda swore Swaggart was going strong still

 

[The ClayTaurus]

There shouldn't be 'branches' of Catholocism, though I think in US there may well be. Yes, in the Catholic Church, if you wish to marry a person outside of the 'faith', you must pledge, promise, commit, to raising children within the faith.

As for 'branches of', I teach in a Catholic school that the church really is protestant. The pastor abhors the crucifix, Mary, stations of the cross. For the first 4 years I taught there, no crucifix in the church. But he wanted to remodel the church and the congregation basically replied, "Fine, we'll donate the 100k, but you will add a crucifix, Mary site, and bring the host into the Church..."

He added a pic of Mary in the back, A "crucifix" with the risen Christ, and a battery operated light to indicate the Host was in the Church.

On the other end of the spectrum of the Catholic Church, are those that say mass only in Latin. They've basically been excommunicated.

The wedding was in a Ukranian Catholic church... maybe the word orthodox was thrown in there too. Half my family is Catholic, so I'm fairly familiar with the service... but this one had distinct differences.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

May have fooled the Priest, but not the Lord.

Well I'll be sure to pass your sentiments on to him

 

[Said1]

He added a pic of Mary in the back, A "crucifix" with the risen Christ, and a battery operated light to indicate the Host was in the Church.
.

What, no palm leaves for/from Palm Sunday?

 

[Annie]

What, no palm leaves for/from Palm Sunday?

quote, "While there would be no redemption without the risen Christ, and no risen Christ without the death, we should really look only at the risen Christ, as the dead Christ is not real." Seriously, in a 'Catholic church."

 

[jillian]

Hope you don't mind my jumping in and I haven't read all the backposts, so I'm hoping that I'm not restating things that were said earlier.

It seems to me, as a non-Christian, that the question of whether Catholicism is Chrstianity is kind of well, not silly, but certainly non-productive. As an outsider looking in, my understanding is that if one accepts Jesus as Messiah, then one is a Christian... by definition.

It also seems to me that Peter, the "fisher of men" being the "first Pope" and Rome being the first denomination of Christianity, makes it automatically "Christian". While there was a Reformation and a rise of Protestantism, that had to do with the power of Rome insinuating itself into other countries due to its religious power as well as with natural variations in belief and worship which occurred as Christianity spread.

Just my two cents...

 

[Annie]

Hope you don't mind my jumping in and I haven't read all the backposts, so I'm hoping that I'm not restating things that were said earlier.

It seems to me, as a non-Christian, that the question of whether Catholicism is Chrstianity is kind of well, not silly, but certainly non-productive. As an outsider looking in, my understanding is that if one accepts Jesus as Messiah, then one is a Christian... by definition.

It also seems to me that Peter, the "fisher of men" being the "first Pope" and Rome being the first denomination of Christianity, makes it automatically "Christian". While there was a Reformation and a rise of Protestantism, that had to do with the power of Rome insinuating itself into other countries due to its religious power as well as with natural variations in belief and worship which occurred as Christianity spread.

Just my two cents...

I don't know Jillian, one might say that the Protestants were 'perfecting' the Church, then again, they went in other directions, so who's to tell? Then the Catholic church belatedly corrected many of the past sins, but yet was 'stuck' with beliefs of the Creed. So, while the Protestants were going off on 'remembrance' Catholics clung to 'my body, my blood.' Big difference.

What Protestants forget or never understood, there is nothing prohibiting praying directly, intercessions are another way, especially during periods of dry.

 

[Nienna]

Coulda swore Swaggart was going strong still

Can't vouch for people who will follow "fallen" leaders. What I mean is that his Christian authority is moot if he doesn't repent sincerely.