Are Catholics Christian Part Deux.

[Annie]

I didn't say they think she's God, although they pray to her and not God. I know lots of Catholics who pray to saints the same way people pray to God, some with more vigor than others. Meaning that some are looking for guidence and some are simply looking to get out of a jam......if you know what I mean. The lady who used to babysit me was clearly crazy. The others accross the street, including Brother John (or is it Jim?) are a part of group that is not exactly part of the church, but they still go the the english Catholic church on Sundays. I don't know where whatshisname fits it, but he has a collar, so I'll assume he's with the same churchas the rest of the group. You should see them do their '100 Hail Mary's'. Even my grandmother calls them fanatics, they are ex-members of her church.

I'm not the best Catholic. I think you may be referring to the 'intercession' of Saints.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P98.HTM

III. Prayer of Intercession

2634 Intercession is a prayer of petition which leads us to pray as Jesus did. He is the one intercessor with the Father on behalf of all men, especially sinners.112 He is "able for all time to save those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them."113 The Holy Spirit "himself intercedes for us . . . and intercedes for the saints according to the will of God."114

2635 Since Abraham, intercession - asking on behalf of another has been characteristic of a heart attuned to God's mercy. In the age of the Church, Christian intercession participates in Christ's, as an expression of the communion of saints. In intercession, he who prays looks "not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others," even to the point of praying for those who do him harm.115

2636 The first Christian communities lived this form of fellowship intensely.116 Thus the Apostle Paul gives them a share in his ministry of preaching the Gospel117 but also intercedes for them.118 The intercession of Christians recognizes no boundaries: "for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions," for persecutors, for the salvation of those who reject the Gospel.119



112 Cf. ⇒ Rom 8:34; ⇒ 1 Jn 2:1; ⇒ 1 Tim 2:5-8.


113 ⇒ Heb 7:25.


114 ⇒ Rom 8:26-27.


115 ⇒ Phil 2:4; cf. ⇒ Acts 7:60; ⇒ Lk 23:28, ⇒ 34.


116 Cf. ⇒ Acts 12:5; ⇒ 20:36; ⇒ 21:5; ⇒ 2 Cor 9:14.


117 Cf. ⇒ Eph 6:18-20; ⇒ Col 4:3-4; ⇒ 1 Thess 5:25.


118 Cf. ⇒ 2 Thess 1:11; ⇒ Col 1:3; ⇒ Phil 1:3-4.


119 ⇒ 2 Tim 2:1; cf. ⇒ Rom 12:14; ⇒ 10:1.

 

[Kagom]

I'm not the best Catholic. I think you may be referring to the 'intercession' of Saints.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P98.HTM

Good job providing some sources there.

I completely forgot about intercession XD

 

[Said1]

I'm not the best Catholic. I think you may be referring to the 'intercession' of Saints.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P98.HTM

No, I know what that is and that isn't what they're doing. The second group might fit that definition if they had to justify what their activitites, but if you saw them in action, you probably wouldn't agree. They're freaks. What else can I say?

What is with the babysitters?? I had another one who always wanted to have visions. She had an older daughter and they liked to take naps during the day.....I guess that was prime vision time. Anyway, when either of them awoke, they would discuss 'could be' visions. I was always scared, a ghost is a ghost, right? I must speak to my mother about that, it's definetly going on 'the list'!

 

[Nienna]

I am a confirmed catholic. It seems as though American catholics are more laid back than protestants. Catholics put in their hour a week, maybe say the rosary now and then, wear a cross, and other than that mind their business. Meanwhile, Protestants love to bring up religion whenever they have a chance. All in all, I would generalize that protestants take religion far too seriously.

Obviously, there are plenty of exceptions to my experiences.

I agree to some extent... I think that there seem to be more anti-Catholic Protestants than anti-Protestant Catholics. I was raised Catholic, but converted to Protestantism as an adult. While growing up, I was not aware of much controversy between Catholics and Prots. It was only when I got involved with some Protestant groups that I heard anti-Catholic sentiments.

This happened in my hometown: The Promise Keepers ( http://www.promisekeepers.org ) were marching across the country or something, and the local Baptist church had volunteered to put them up for the night. Then the Baptists found out that the Promise Keepers allows Catholics, so they rescinded their offer... with the Promise Keepers ony a few hours out of town! The local Catholic church made some calls, and found lodging and food for them at the last minute.

Catholics believe:

We believe (I believe) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe) in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen." (Nicene Creed)

Sounds like pretty straightforward Christianity to me.

 

[Said1]

t intercession XD

sounds like a video game.

 

[Kagom]

sounds like a video game.

Some Catholic beliefs have been processed into video games, believe it or not. Check out Ragnarok Online

 

[Annie]

I agree to some extent... I think that there seem to be more anti-Catholic Protestants than anti-Protestant Catholics. I was raised Catholic, but converted to Protestantism as an adult. While growing up, I was not aware of much controversy between Catholics and Prots. It was only when I got involved with some Protestant groups that I heard anti-Catholic sentiments.

This happened in my hometown: The Promise Keepers ( http://www.promisekeepers.org ) were marching across the country or something, and the local Baptist church had volunteered to put them up for the night. Then the Baptists found out that the Promise Keepers allows Catholics, so they rescinded their offer... with the Promise Keepers ony a few hours out of town! The local Catholic church made some calls, and found lodging and food for them at the last minute.

Catholics believe:


Sounds like pretty straightforward Christianity to me.

Yup, 7th Grade Religion Text, 'Creed'. Sadlier publisher.

 

[dmp]

Here's my take on it:

A Christian IS as a Christian DOES - regardless of 'label'.

 

[no1tovote4]

I'm curious for everyone's input on this issue. It's one that I used to come across a lot back when I was a Catholic Apologist. Of course, I always defended Catholocism as a Christian denomination and I believe it still is. But how many of you feel differently or the same, etc.?

Now, I want to be very straight-forward: this is about the validity of Catholocism as a denomination in Christianity, nothing more. No talk about molestations, no bashing others here, and above all, stay on topic. We've seen the disaster that was the original thread. Let's try again, shall we?

Very often I have heard Catholics tell me, "I am a Catholic, not a Christian!" Are there two camps in Catholicism as well?

 

[Annie]

Very often I have heard Catholics tell me, "I am a Catholic, not a Christian!" Are there two camps in Catholicism as well?

While I believe you, I cannot imagine a thinking Catholic saying such.

 

[Kagom]

Very often I have heard Catholics tell me, "I am a Catholic, not a Christian!" Are there two camps in Catholicism as well?

There's sub-denominations in Catholocism, but most Catholics call themselves Christians. And by definition, they are.

 

[Nienna]

Very often I have heard Catholics tell me, "I am a Catholic, not a Christian!" Are there two camps in Catholicism as well?

When I was still practicing Catholicism, I had a discussion about this with my best friend from high school, about the difference between being Catholic and Christian. We had both had sisters leave the Catholic Church, and it was very disruptive to our families, as if our sisters had turned their backs on their heritage. However, we both agreed that other denominations could still be considered Christians. My POV was that I was a "Christian" more than I was a "Catholic." She opposed rather vehemently, saying, "Well, I'm NOT!"

I have heard some (like my Grandma) claim that Catholicism is the only true Christian religion, and I have heard others (like my friend) who have the idea that Catholicism is so very different from "mainstream" Christianity that it is an insult to be compared to them. Many have been hurt by Protestants who claimed that Catholics weren't Christians.

Also, I think Catholicism is more than a faith... it's also a heritage. People use it as a cultural identifier. It's kind of a club; no matter where you go, the Mass has the same structure, and everyone knows the right words to say at the right times. Gives you the feeling of "belonging."

 

[Abbey Normal]

The best way I can think of to address the original question is this: Our previous non-denominational church prints the following on every Sunday bulletin, and I agree with it 100%.

"______ Church has been formed as a fellowship of believers in the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Our supreme desire is to know Christ and be conformed into His image by the power of the Holy Spirit. We are not a denominational church, nor are we opposed to denominations as such, only their over-emphasis of doctrinal differences that have led to the division of the body of Christ. We believe that the only true basis of Christian fellowship is His (Agape) love, which is greater than any differences we possess and without which we have no right to claim ourselves Christians."

 

[5stringJeff]

The best way I can think of to address the original question is this: Our previous non-denominational church prints the following on every Sunday bulletin, and I agree with it 100%.

"______ Church has been formed as a fellowship of believers in the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Our supreme desire is to know Christ and be conformed into His image by the power of the Holy Spirit. We are not a denominational church, nor are we opposed to denominations as such, only their over-emphasis of doctrinal differences that have led to the division of the body of Christ. We believe that the only true basis of Christian fellowship is His (Agape) love, which is greater than any differences we possess and without which we have no right to claim ourselves Christians."

Awesome.

 

[Said1]

Also, I think Catholicism is more than a faith... it's also a heritage. People use it as a cultural identifier. It's kind of a club; no matter where you go, the Mass has the same structure, and everyone knows the right words to say at the right times. Gives you the feeling of "belonging."

It's true. When I was little, I thought I was the only one who didn't know the words.

I always loved shaking hands at the end, does that extend to other denominations?

 

[Bonnie]

I never knew idolization. As far as I was taught, they were models for living 'Christ like.' Same as George Washington used Cincinnatus.

The same way Christians accuse Catholics of whorshipping Mary, when in reality we pray through her for her intercession to her son.

Kagom Im not sure how to answer your question, as a Catholic I believe myself to also be Christian, and that we are all working towards the same goals.

 

[Bonnie]

When I was still practicing Catholicism, I had a discussion about this with my best friend from high school, about the difference between being Catholic and Christian. We had both had sisters leave the Catholic Church, and it was very disruptive to our families, as if our sisters had turned their backs on their heritage. However, we both agreed that other denominations could still be considered Christians. My POV was that I was a "Christian" more than I was a "Catholic." She opposed rather vehemently, saying, "Well, I'm NOT!"

I have heard some (like my Grandma) claim that Catholicism is the only true Christian religion, and I have heard others (like my friend) who have the idea that Catholicism is so very different from "mainstream" Christianity that it is an insult to be compared to them. Many have been hurt by Protestants who claimed that Catholics weren't Christians.

Also, I think Catholicism is more than a faith... it's also a heritage. People use it as a cultural identifier. It's kind of a club; no matter where you go, the Mass has the same structure, and everyone knows the right words to say at the right times. Gives you the feeling of "belonging."

One very main difference between the two is: for Catholics communion once blessed by a priest is actually Christ's body which is why the host is so sacred, with Christians the host is more symbolic.

I would say that Catholicism is more formal in the practices of receiving sacraments such as penance, matrimony, communion, prayer, and Christian denominations are a little more laid back. Personally I love the formality of the mass and even the occasional Latin chanting some churches offer, puts me in a very spiritual mood.

 

[Gunny]

The same way Christians accuse Catholics of whorshipping Mary, when in reality we pray through her for her intercession to her son.

Kagom Im not sure how to answer your question, as a Catholic I believe myself to also be Christian, and that we are all working towards the same goals.

And that is how many protestants have come to believe Catholics "worship" Mary. The protestant belief is that Mary was the human Mother of Christ and plays no more role than that. Praying to Mary to a protestant is the equivalent of praying to your next door neighbor. For protestants, there is no intercession. Protestants speak directly to Christ.

 

[mattskramer]

I'm curious for everyone's input on this issue. It's one that I used to come across a lot back when I was a Catholic Apologist. Of course, I always defended Catholocism as a Christian denomination and I believe it still is. But how many of you feel differently or the same, etc.?

Now, I want to be very straight-forward: this is about the validity of Catholocism as a denomination in Christianity, nothing more. No talk about molestations, no bashing others here, and above all, stay on topic. We've seen the disaster that was the original thread. Let's try again, shall we?

I don’t know and I don’t really care. The old argument about what group truly represents Christianity and what is a cult just rubs me the wrong way. “We are right and you are wrong”. “No. We are right and you are wrong or (worse) evil.” I have even heard that Catholics are going to hell. I hear Catholics say that Protestants have left the flock and risk damnation. It strikes me as personal insecurity on their part. Learn for yourself and be true to yourself. God will be the ultimate judge.

 

[Bonnie]

And that is how many protestants have come to believe Catholics "worship" Mary. The protestant belief is that Mary was the human Mother of Christ and plays no more role than that. Praying to Mary to a protestant is the equivalent of praying to your next door neighbor. For protestants, there is no intercession. Protestants speak directly to Christ.

Yes, my ex was an Episcopalian who used to yell at me that I was damned to hell for "whorshipping" Mary.....It was fun Truth is Mary is seen as sinless and perfect s she had to be to carry Jesus. I guess the best way to explain it is to say if you need a big favor from someone the smart thing to do is ask their mother to intervene on your behalf, how could anyone with love for their mother deny the favor especially when you hold their mother in high regard as well??

True story...A priest had an out of body experience as he died, turns out he wasn't such a holy priest in that he often shirked his responsibility for saying mass on other priests, and came to have a great love for the power he held over his flock, they would wine and dine him etc. As he saw the bright light he heard the Blessed mother say "please give him another chance my son". Sure enough he came back to life, and had a new love for Christ and his mother.