Are Blacks Americans too?

[SFC Ollie]

Pin Point my hatred Occifer Ollie...if you can.

Why? You refuse to see it. Every thing you post about is race related. You obsess with it. You truly need help.

BTW, in answer to your how many questions? Who's counting? Hundreds in total.

 

[MarcATL]

Pin Point my hatred Occifer Ollie...if you can.

Why? You refuse to see it. Every thing you post about is race related. You obsess with it. You truly need help.

BTW, in answer to your how many questions? Who's counting? Hundreds in total.

Just because a random stranger on the net says something doesn't it make it true. LoL!!

Prove it.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Pin Point my hatred Occifer Ollie...if you can.

Why? You refuse to see it. Every thing you post about is race related. You obsess with it. You truly need help.

BTW, in answer to your how many questions? Who's counting? Hundreds in total.

Just because a random stranger on the net says something doesn't it make it true. LoL!!

Prove it.

You prove it yourself with nearly every post. This is why I had to put Bass on ignore, his racism got to be too much for me to deal with.

 

[Samson]

You are babbling and Rambling a bit Marc. My Posts represent My point of view, not Sara Palin's or Anyone else on the Right or the Left. I'm sharing my perspective with you, that is all. My position on Black History is much more rooted in Thoreau. I have issues with George Washington too, for different reasons. I don't go making a point of covering up his Statue though. That was poor judgement. We are all related. I'm past Black and White, you are not. It is your issue, it is also a stumbling block. You need to see through the hate, I'm telling you that because I in fact do care. It is not a Political Agenda, I'm worried about you. It is not healthy.

I don't think he's babbling, do you know what it is to be black in America? perhaps if you did you wouldn't be telling blacks, especially black males to see past the hate, no, it makes much more sense to tell certain whites to pull their heads out of the sand and face reality.

Stop crying in your milk Bass and suck it up. How can you expect Anyone Else to see past or through Race, when you yourself can't? We are all related. We All suffer to one degree or another. You know squat of what other people have survived. To assume that you are more experienced in pain, rejection, injustice than another is a mistake. When you project trouble and negativity, that is exactly what you will attract like a magnet. Each of us lives within the same physical laws of creation. Each of us play's the hand we are dealt. Are you an American or an American't?

I don't believe either Bass or Marc are complaining about being black, or even necessarily about how they might be treated as blacks.

What I hear them saying is that there IS A DIFFERENCE (whether you accept it or not) between being Black and being White. Whose fault this is doesn't really matter. Whether or not it is a result of nature or nurture really doesn't matter.

Whites need to try to imagine what it would be like to have been enslaved by blacks, then to live in a nation where whites comprise 15% of the population but where they are 60% of the prison population: If you were white in this imaginary nation wouldn't you be just a little paranoid? Remember, everyone who wrote the laws would be black, and almost everyone that enforced the laws would be black. I sure as hell would be very goddamn careful!!

 

[Old Rocks]

The only hatred between Whites and Blacks are from those who are baby-boomers. The younger generation has accepted that we are different and are not holding it against each other. They are befriending each other and having a good time together, while we boomers are still arguiing over issues that are not solving a damn thing. When are we as adults and mature people in this country going to realize that hating each other is a waste of time? Both White and Black boomers need to let go of the PAST. We are blessed to even have lived to see 2011. But are we grateful? Hell no, we just want to keep hating and being antagonistic towards each other. Truly, we are a sorry people.

In my lifetime lynching was a weekend sport in some of the southern states of our nation. No, the boomer generation was the one that took matters in hand in the 60's and began a path that we are still on toward reconcilation of our stated principles and our actions.

 

[MarcATL]

I don't believe either Bass or Marc are complaining about being black, or even necessarily about how they might be treated as blacks.

What I hear them saying is that there IS A DIFFERENCE (whether you accept it or not) between being Black and being White. Whose fault this is doesn't really matter. Whether or not it is a result of nature or nurture really doesn't matter.

Whites need to try to imagine what it would be like to have been enslaved by blacks, then to live in a nation where whites comprise 15% of the population but where they are 60% of the prison population: If you were white in this imaginary nation wouldn't you be just a little paranoid? Remember, everyone who wrote the laws would be black, and almost everyone that enforced the laws would be black. I sure as hell would be very goddamn careful!!

Of all the posters on this board...Samson gets it.

WoW!

 

[Sallow]

I don't believe either Bass or Marc are complaining about being black, or even necessarily about how they might be treated as blacks.

What I hear them saying is that there IS A DIFFERENCE (whether you accept it or not) between being Black and being White. Whose fault this is doesn't really matter. Whether or not it is a result of nature or nurture really doesn't matter.

Whites need to try to imagine what it would be like to have been enslaved by blacks, then to live in a nation where whites comprise 15% of the population but where they are 60% of the prison population: If you were white in this imaginary nation wouldn't you be just a little paranoid? Remember, everyone who wrote the laws would be black, and almost everyone that enforced the laws would be black. I sure as hell would be very goddamn careful!!

Of all the posters on this board...Samson gets it.

WoW!

Heh..kinda shocked as well.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

I don't believe either Bass or Marc are complaining about being black, or even necessarily about how they might be treated as blacks.

What I hear them saying is that there IS A DIFFERENCE (whether you accept it or not) between being Black and being White. Whose fault this is doesn't really matter. Whether or not it is a result of nature or nurture really doesn't matter.

Whites need to try to imagine what it would be like to have been enslaved by blacks, then to live in a nation where whites comprise 15% of the population but where they are 60% of the prison population: If you were white in this imaginary nation wouldn't you be just a little paranoid? Remember, everyone who wrote the laws would be black, and almost everyone that enforced the laws would be black. I sure as hell would be very goddamn careful!!

Of all the posters on this board...Samson gets it.

WoW!

Heh..kinda shocked as well.

Well Samson did get it, despite him I'm shocked at the posts by others in this thread who's main obsession is being "hated" so as a defense mechanism they keep telling blacks to put the past behind them. I demonstrated in another just how hard that can be when, for example, you still have certain white women falsely accusing black men of rape. Intense really thinks the key to blacks getting over the racist acts of the past is for blacks to have a "bad memory" about it, as opposed to focusing on stopping the persistent racism of certain whites who themselves refuse to have a "bad memory" about the past.

Intense is like those Republican educators in Texas and Arizona who want certain parts of history edited out and not taught out of their selfish fear and obsession with being hated while at the same time teaching Blacks and Native Americans about the "goodness" of the "Founding fathers," most of whom were slave owners and exterminators of Native Americans who's land they stole.

 

[fromAcubicle]

When you live in a country that once had in their law books, in their original Constitution of all places, that you are or were once 3/5ths of a person and worth less then non-living products, when you live in a country that once had in their law books, that if anyone attempted to teach you to read was a crime worthy of severe punishment...you tend to have a different view of the original laws and foundation/founders of that country.

Just saying.

If you dislike the way this country was founded, go find another one more to your liking.

Yeah, if we could have slaves again I have one. someone to cook and clean and bathe me in the evenings.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I don't think he's babbling, do you know what it is to be black in America? perhaps if you did you wouldn't be telling blacks, especially black males to see past the hate, no, it makes much more sense to tell certain whites to pull their heads out of the sand and face reality.

Stop crying in your milk Bass and suck it up. How can you expect Anyone Else to see past or through Race, when you yourself can't? We are all related. We All suffer to one degree or another. You know squat of what other people have survived. To assume that you are more experienced in pain, rejection, injustice than another is a mistake. When you project trouble and negativity, that is exactly what you will attract like a magnet. Each of us lives within the same physical laws of creation. Each of us play's the hand we are dealt. Are you an American or an American't?

I don't believe either Bass or Marc are complaining about being black, or even necessarily about how they might be treated as blacks.

What I hear them saying is that there IS A DIFFERENCE (whether you accept it or not) between being Black and being White. Whose fault this is doesn't really matter. Whether or not it is a result of nature or nurture really doesn't matter.

Whites need to try to imagine what it would be like to have been enslaved by blacks, then to live in a nation where whites comprise 15% of the population but where they are 60% of the prison population: If you were white in this imaginary nation wouldn't you be just a little paranoid? Remember, everyone who wrote the laws would be black, and almost everyone that enforced the laws would be black. I sure as hell would be very goddamn careful!!

I call BULLSHIT!

There's isn't a black American alive today that has ever been enslaved. To say that the overwheleming number of blacks in prison is somehow related to slavery in any way is a stretch to say the least. You sound as if you believe every black Americans ancestors were former slaves forgetting the many that weren't and were in fact slave owners themselves.

The way I see it, most blacks refuse to look beyond the past they are in fact perpetual victims.

 

[Samson]

Stop crying in your milk Bass and suck it up. How can you expect Anyone Else to see past or through Race, when you yourself can't? We are all related. We All suffer to one degree or another. You know squat of what other people have survived. To assume that you are more experienced in pain, rejection, injustice than another is a mistake. When you project trouble and negativity, that is exactly what you will attract like a magnet. Each of us lives within the same physical laws of creation. Each of us play's the hand we are dealt. Are you an American or an American't?

I don't believe either Bass or Marc are complaining about being black, or even necessarily about how they might be treated as blacks.

What I hear them saying is that there IS A DIFFERENCE (whether you accept it or not) between being Black and being White. Whose fault this is doesn't really matter. Whether or not it is a result of nature or nurture really doesn't matter.

Whites need to try to imagine what it would be like to have been enslaved by blacks, then to live in a nation where whites comprise 15% of the population but where they are 60% of the prison population: If you were white in this imaginary nation wouldn't you be just a little paranoid? Remember, everyone who wrote the laws would be black, and almost everyone that enforced the laws would be black. I sure as hell would be very goddamn careful!!

I call BULLSHIT!

There's isn't a black American alive today that has ever been enslaved. To say that the overwheleming number of blacks in prison is somehow related to slavery in any way is a stretch to say the least. You sound as if you believe every black Americans ancestors were former slaves forgetting the many that weren't and were in fact slave owners themselves.

The way I see it, most blacks refuse to look beyond the past they are in fact perpetual victims.

I didn't say anything of the sort: In fact what I did say was, " Whose fault this is doesn't really matter. Whether or not it is a result of nature or nurture really doesn't matter."

What I DID SAY was meant to convey that neither you (I suppose you are also white) or me, can easily imagine what it is like to be black in the USA. Because of our fortunate exclusion (ignorance?) it's easy for us to "call BULLSHIT."

Note that I do say "OUR," because I don't necessarily consider myself any better acquianted with being black than any other white, but I do recognise there is a difference.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I don't believe either Bass or Marc are complaining about being black, or even necessarily about how they might be treated as blacks.

What I hear them saying is that there IS A DIFFERENCE (whether you accept it or not) between being Black and being White. Whose fault this is doesn't really matter. Whether or not it is a result of nature or nurture really doesn't matter.

Whites need to try to imagine what it would be like to have been enslaved by blacks, then to live in a nation where whites comprise 15% of the population but where they are 60% of the prison population: If you were white in this imaginary nation wouldn't you be just a little paranoid? Remember, everyone who wrote the laws would be black, and almost everyone that enforced the laws would be black. I sure as hell would be very goddamn careful!!

I call BULLSHIT!

There's isn't a black American alive today that has ever been enslaved. To say that the overwheleming number of blacks in prison is somehow related to slavery in any way is a stretch to say the least. You sound as if you believe every black Americans ancestors were former slaves forgetting the many that weren't and were in fact slave owners themselves.

The way I see it, most blacks refuse to look beyond the past they are in fact perpetual victims.

I didn't say anything of the sort: In fact what I did say was, " Whose fault this is doesn't really matter. Whether or not it is a result of nature or nurture really doesn't matter."

What I DID SAY was meant to convey that neither you (I suppose you are also white) or me, can easily imagine what it is like to be black in the USA. Because of our fortunate exclusion (ignorance?) it's easy for us to "call BULLSHIT."

Note that I do say "OUR," because I don't necessarily consider myself any better acquianted with being black than any other white, but I do recognise there is a difference.

With all due respect what I call bullshit is your opinion that black Americans can and/or should have a different world view than white Americans due to their ancestrial history. Fact is most all of the races of man were enslaved at some point in history.

The only difference is skin color and to think there is more to it than that is acknowledging and encouraging their victim mentality.

 

[Samson]

I call BULLSHIT!

There's isn't a black American alive today that has ever been enslaved. To say that the overwheleming number of blacks in prison is somehow related to slavery in any way is a stretch to say the least. You sound as if you believe every black Americans ancestors were former slaves forgetting the many that weren't and were in fact slave owners themselves.

The way I see it, most blacks refuse to look beyond the past they are in fact perpetual victims.

I didn't say anything of the sort: In fact what I did say was, " Whose fault this is doesn't really matter. Whether or not it is a result of nature or nurture really doesn't matter."

What I DID SAY was meant to convey that neither you (I suppose you are also white) or me, can easily imagine what it is like to be black in the USA. Because of our fortunate exclusion (ignorance?) it's easy for us to "call BULLSHIT."

Note that I do say "OUR," because I don't necessarily consider myself any better acquianted with being black than any other white, but I do recognise there is a difference.

With all due respect what I call bullshit is your opinion that black Americans can and/or should have a different world view than white Americans due to their ancestrial history. Fact is most all of the races of man were enslaved at some point in history.

The only difference is skin color and to think there is more to it than that is acknowledging and encouraging their victim mentality.

I don't encourage a "victim mentality."

Nor do I ignore the obvious: White Americans enslaved Black Americans, and now blacks comprise 60% of the prison population in America. I don't pretend to know exactly why.

But if I was black, I'd be more than a little paranoid, and the fact that whites were also enslaved 2000 years ago would not make much difference to me TODAY. I don't guess I'd be as paranoid as I would have been 50 years ago, but I wouldn't be completely at ease either.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I didn't say anything of the sort: In fact what I did say was, " Whose fault this is doesn't really matter. Whether or not it is a result of nature or nurture really doesn't matter."

What I DID SAY was meant to convey that neither you (I suppose you are also white) or me, can easily imagine what it is like to be black in the USA. Because of our fortunate exclusion (ignorance?) it's easy for us to "call BULLSHIT."

Note that I do say "OUR," because I don't necessarily consider myself any better acquianted with being black than any other white, but I do recognise there is a difference.

With all due respect what I call bullshit is your opinion that black Americans can and/or should have a different world view than white Americans due to their ancestrial history. Fact is most all of the races of man were enslaved at some point in history.

The only difference is skin color and to think there is more to it than that is acknowledging and encouraging their victim mentality.

I don't encourage a "victim mentality."

Nor do I ignore the obvious: White Americans enslaved Black Americans, and now blacks comprise 60% of the prison population in America. I don't pretend to know exactly why.

But if I was black, I'd be more than a little paranoid, and the fact that whites were also enslaved 2000 years ago would not make much difference to me TODAY. I don't guess I'd be as paranoid as I would have been 50 years ago, but I wouldn't be completely at ease either.

I don't see how you can ignore the facts of history.

The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large. In 1860 only a small minority of whites owned slaves. According to the U.S. census report for that last year before the Civil War, there were nearly 27 million whites in the country. Some eight million of them lived in the slaveholding states.

The census also determined that there were fewer than 385,000 individuals who owned slaves (1). Even if all slaveholders had been white, that would amount to only 1.4 percent of whites in the country (or 4.8 percent of southern whites owning one or more slaves).

In the rare instances when the ownership of slaves by free Negroes is acknowledged in the history books, justification centers on the claim that black slave masters were simply individuals who purchased the freedom of a spouse or child from a white slaveholder and had been unable to legally manumit them. Although this did indeed happen at times, it is a misrepresentation of the majority of instances, one which is debunked by records of the period on blacks who owned slaves. These include individuals such as Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry, of Colleton District, South Carolina, who each owned 84 slaves in 1830. In fact, in 1830 a fourth of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves; eight owning 30 or more (2).

According to federal census reports, on June 1, 1860 there were nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States, with fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves. Of this number, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. The country's leading African American historian, Duke University professor John Hope Franklin, records that in New Orleans over 3,000 free Negroes owned slaves, or 28 percent of the free Negroes in that city.

Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms


It seems you're relating the present prison population of blacks to slavery. Why?

 

[Samson]

With all due respect what I call bullshit is your opinion that black Americans can and/or should have a different world view than white Americans due to their ancestrial history. Fact is most all of the races of man were enslaved at some point in history.

The only difference is skin color and to think there is more to it than that is acknowledging and encouraging their victim mentality.

I don't encourage a "victim mentality."

Nor do I ignore the obvious: White Americans enslaved Black Americans, and now blacks comprise 60% of the prison population in America. I don't pretend to know exactly why.

But if I was black, I'd be more than a little paranoid, and the fact that whites were also enslaved 2000 years ago would not make much difference to me TODAY. I don't guess I'd be as paranoid as I would have been 50 years ago, but I wouldn't be completely at ease either.

I don't see how you can ignore the facts of history.



It seems you're relating the present prison population of blacks to slavery. Why?

What "facts of history" have I ignored?

The fact that there were black slaveholders doesn't change the fact that anyone was able to enslave blacks because it was the law which was written by whites.

I'm relating the present prison population of blacks (60%) to the history of blacks being enslaved in the USA because both are part of BEING BLACK, as much as your history or my own, and the fact that there are few whites in prison is part of BEING WHITE.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I don't encourage a "victim mentality."

Nor do I ignore the obvious: White Americans enslaved Black Americans, and now blacks comprise 60% of the prison population in America. I don't pretend to know exactly why.

But if I was black, I'd be more than a little paranoid, and the fact that whites were also enslaved 2000 years ago would not make much difference to me TODAY. I don't guess I'd be as paranoid as I would have been 50 years ago, but I wouldn't be completely at ease either.

I don't see how you can ignore the facts of history.



It seems you're relating the present prison population of blacks to slavery. Why?

What "facts of history" have I ignored?

The fact that there were black slaveholders doesn't change the fact that anyone was able to enslave blacks because it was the law which was written by whites.

I'm relating the present prison population of blacks (60%) to the history of blacks being enslaved in the USA because both are part of BEING BLACK, as much as your history or my own, and the fact that there are few whites in prison is part of BEING WHITE.

Being a slave owner is also part of being black and that's one fact you seem to ignore.

 

[Samson]

I don't see how you can ignore the facts of history.



It seems you're relating the present prison population of blacks to slavery. Why?

What "facts of history" have I ignored?

The fact that there were black slaveholders doesn't change the fact that anyone was able to enslave blacks because it was the law which was written by whites.

I'm relating the present prison population of blacks (60%) to the history of blacks being enslaved in the USA because both are part of BEING BLACK, as much as your history or my own, and the fact that there are few whites in prison is part of BEING WHITE.

Being a slave owner is also part of being black and that's one fact you seem to ignore.

I don't ignore it as much as I find it absurdly insignificant in light of the number of blacks who were not slave owners in the USA, but instead were themselves slaves.

But I liken the number to white slaveholders in light of the number of white citizens of the USA: A very small proportion, and one for which I myself feel very little sympathy.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

What "facts of history" have I ignored?

The fact that there were black slaveholders doesn't change the fact that anyone was able to enslave blacks because it was the law which was written by whites.

I'm relating the present prison population of blacks (60%) to the history of blacks being enslaved in the USA because both are part of BEING BLACK, as much as your history or my own, and the fact that there are few whites in prison is part of BEING WHITE.

Being a slave owner is also part of being black and that's one fact you seem to ignore.

I don't ignore it as much as I find it absurdly insignificant in light of the number of blacks who were not slave owners in the USA, but instead were themselves slaves.

But I liken the number to white slaveholders in light of the number of white citizens of the USA: A very small proportion, and one for which I myself feel very little sympathy.

The fact that a very small percentage of whites owned slaves in light of the number of white people and a large percentage of blacks owned slaves in light of the number of black people is only insignificant if you refuse to take it into consideration.

Truth of the mattter is, blacks for the most part are either ignorant of their history or they, like you, simply dismiss historical facts.

 

[Samson]

Being a slave owner is also part of being black and that's one fact you seem to ignore.

I don't ignore it as much as I find it absurdly insignificant in light of the number of blacks who were not slave owners in the USA, but instead were themselves slaves.

But I liken the number to white slaveholders in light of the number of white citizens of the USA: A very small proportion, and one for which I myself feel very little sympathy.

The fact that a very small percentage of whites owned slaves in light of the number of white people and a large percentage of blacks owned slaves in light of the number of black people is only insignificant if you refuse to take it into consideration.

Truth of the mattter is, blacks for the most part are either ignorant of their history or they, like you, simply dismiss historical facts.

You are misinformed if you believe that in the United States, "a large percentage of blacks owned slaves in light of the number of black people."

You probably should correct your own ignorance of history before questioning the ignorance of anyone else, much less an entire group.

You have more of an agenda of intolerance rather than one that makes any attempt at trying to understand anyone else's POV. Certainly, whites have no monoploy on this agenda.

 

[MarcATL]

I call BULLSHIT!

There's isn't a black American alive today that has ever been enslaved. To say that the overwheleming number of blacks in prison is somehow related to slavery in any way is a stretch to say the least. You sound as if you believe every black Americans ancestors were former slaves forgetting the many that weren't and were in fact slave owners themselves.

The way I see it, most blacks refuse to look beyond the past they are in fact perpetual victims.

I think that's all anyone here has to read in order to place the appropriate amount of stock in what you're saying.