Zone1 Are any Christians here interested to know WHY Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah?

[Lisa558]

Correct. Total faith in Jesus is all that is required. According to Scripture. No one with perfect knowledge is going to heaven.

So you can be a shithead to people, insult them, mock them, etc., and all it takes is to “believe” and you’re forgiven? What about making amends to the people you mistreat?

 

[BS Filter]

So you can be a shithead to people, insult them, mock them, etc., and all it takes is to “believe” and you’re forgiven? What about making amends to the people you mistreat?

What does Scripture tell you what is required for salvation?

 

[BS Filter]

Gospel of John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

 

[BreezeWood]

No one with perfect knowledge is going to heaven.

- there is no existence for that word.

the heavenly religion of antiquity is to attain - purity - as the means for judgment and remission to the everlasting ... the instructions granted a&e for their journey.

there will never be a messiah.

 

[BS Filter]

- there is no existence for that word.

the heavenly religion of antiquity is to attain - purity - as the means for judgment and remission to the everlasting ... the instructions granted a&e for their journey.

there will never be a messiah.

What in the wide wide world of sports are you talking about?

 

[Lisa558]

Gospel of John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

Yes, we’re very aware of the Christian teachings.

 

[buttercup]

I can totally understand why Lisa and some other non-Christians here believe that Christians are arrogant when they say that all other religions are wrong and only Christianity is right.

That is one of the most common reactions / objections to Christianity, and that sentiment has existed for roughly 2000 years.

There's so much to be said in response to that, it's hard to know where to begin.

First, Jesus Himself stated that He is the only way. So, each individual can believe what He said, or not. I believe it. For numerous reasons... one of those reasons being a completely changed life.

But unfortunately, it is possible to say something that is true, but with a wrong approach or delivery.

I love the words in 1 Corinthians 13, and I think this goes along with what I just said about speaking the truth but in the wrong way. (I'm posting verses 1-7)

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.​

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.​

Another thing to consider is that if we look at the nature of truth itself, truth is narrow. It excludes what is not true. For example, 2+2 = 4. There are people (usually secular leftists) who believe that all truth is relative, and there is no objective truth. But that goes against the basic laws of logic.

So why would it be different with things like salvation? If all the different religions in the world teach different things and those things contradict each other, then from a purely logical standpoint, they can't all be true at the same time… that would go against the law of non-contradiction.

I have a question for Lisa or the other non-Christians who agree with Lisa that it's arrogant to say there's only one way to God/salvation.

This is purely for the sake of argument. Please temporarily assume that Jesus IS indeed God in the flesh, and the only way to have our sins forgiven and be reconciled to God. Again, for the sake of argument, assuming that is true... was it arrogant for Him to say, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.”

If Jesus was willing to lay down His life for you, because He loves you, similar to how a parent would lay down their life for their child... then was it arrogant for him to say something that is the truth? Even if goes against what we previously believed?

 

[BS Filter]

Yes, we’re very aware of the Christian teachings.

Well, there's your answer.

 

[BreezeWood]

What in the wide wide world of sports are you talking about?

perfection does not exist ...

all in the heavens are equal - in purity.

the triumph of good vs evil - is what is judged for remission to the everlasting ... when one or the other is accomplished.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

ALL people b live THEIR religion is the only way. Even atheists. Otherwise they would never argue with you. But we're not suppose to point out THEIR hypocrisy

 

[BS Filter]

perfection does not exist ...

all in the heavens are equal - in purity.

the triumph of good vs evil - is what is judged for remission to the everlasting ... when one or the other is accomplished.

Oh yeah, for sure.

 

[BreezeWood]

First, Jesus Himself stated that He is the only way.

- provide that document written in the hand of jesus ...

you do realize it was judas that claimed jesus claimed to be the messiah - for the their reward to be paid in silver.

 

[BS Filter]

- provide that document written in the hand of jesus ...

you do realize it was judas that claimed jesus claimed to be the messiah - for the their reward to be paid in silver.

Provide that document written in the hand of Judas.

 

[Lisa558]

I can totally understand why Lisa and some other non-Christians here believe that Christians are arrogant when they say that all other religions are wrong and only Christianity is right.

That is one of the most common reactions / objections to Christianity, and that sentiment has existed for roughly 2000 years.

There's so much to be said in response to that, it's hard to know where to begin.

First, Jesus Himself stated that He is the only way. So, each individual can believe what He said, or not. I believe it. For numerous reasons... one of those reasons being a completely changed life.

But unfortunately, it is possible to say something that is true, but with a wrong approach or delivery.

I love the words in 1 Corinthians 13, and I think this goes along with what I just said about speaking the truth but in the wrong way. (I'm posting verses 1-7)

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.​

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.​

Another thing to consider is that if we look at the nature of truth itself, truth is narrow. It excludes what is not true. For example, 2+2 = 4. There are people (usually secular leftists) who believe that all truth is relative, and there is no objective truth. But that goes against the basic laws of logic.

So why would it be different with things like salvation? If all the different religions in the world teach different things and those things contradict each other, then from a purely logical standpoint, they can't all be true at the same time… that would go against the law of non-contradiction.

I have a question for Lisa or the other non-Christians who agree with Lisa that it's arrogant to say there's only one way to God/salvation.

This is purely for the sake of argument. Please temporarily assume that Jesus IS indeed God in the flesh, and the only way to have our sins forgiven and be reconciled to God. Again, for the sake of argument, assuming that is true... was it arrogant for Him to say, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.”

If Jesus was willing to lay down His life for you, because He loves you, similar to how a parent would lay down their life for their child... then was it arrogant for him to say something that is the truth? Even if goes against what we previously believed?

You are still coming at this from the Christian perspective, with your argument being that Jesus himself said that he was the only way.

What did he mean by that? That the only way to reach the World to Come is to follow his teachings, which were for the most part traditional Jewish values? Then yes, I agree that one must follow Gd’s commandments.

If, OTOH, he indicated that he had special “salvation powers,” with the ability to absorb sin, and that only those that believed he was a supreme being of some sort would get to Heaven, then there are two possibilities, from the Jewish perspective:

The first, and most likely, is that he never said (or intended) such a thing. From what I understand, he was a practicing Jew - and no Jew would elevate himself above his fellow human beings.

The second, and less likely, is that he did say and intend that, and if that were the case, yes….he was suffering from delusions of grandeur. Again, however, this is unlikely.

Finally, I wish to clarify that it is other Christians who are arrogant - specifically, the ones here who insist to Jews that unless they submit to THEIR beliefs, they will be banished from Heaven. What makes it even more annoying is the ridiculous quoting from the NT as to what Jesus (supposedly) said - as if this would be “proof” to the 98% of Jews who choose to maintain traditional Jewish beliefs.

I would prefer that everyone just believe what he wants, and allow others the same privilege.

 

[BS Filter]

You are still coming at this from the Christian perspective, with your argument being that Jesus himself said that he was the only way.

What did he mean by that? That the only way to reach the World to Come is to follow his teachings, which were for the most part traditional Jewish values? Then yes, I agree that one must follow Gd’s commandments.

If, OTOH, he indicated that he had special “salvation powers,” with the ability to absorb sin, and that only those that believed he was a supreme being of some sort would get to Heaven, then there are two possibilities, from the Jewish perspective:

The first, and most likely, is that he never said (or intended) such a thing. From what I understand, he was a practicing Jew - and no Jew would elevate himself above his fellow human beings.

The second, and less likely, is that he did say and intend that, and if that were the case, yes….he was suffering from delusions of grandeur. Again, however, this is unlikely.

Finally, I wish to clarify that it is other Christians who are arrogant - specifically, the ones here who insist to Jews that unless they submit to THEIR beliefs, they will be banished from Heaven. What makes it even more annoying is the ridiculous quoting from the NT as to what Jesus (supposedly) said - as if this would be “proof” to the 98% of Jews who choose to maintain traditional Jewish beliefs.

I would prefer that everyone just believe what he wants, and allow others the same privilege.

Jesus said he was YHWH. The Book of Revelation reveals Jesus is the God of Israel, the Creator.

 

[Lisa558]

Jesus said he was YHWH. The Book of Revelation reveals Jesus is the God of Israel, the Creator.

Yes, we know what the NT says he said. If you want to believe it, mist fine with me. Just don’t go around telling people who don’t believe as you do that they don’t get to Heaven. It’s arrogant, and rude.

 

[BS Filter]

Yes, we know what the NT says he said. If you want to believe it, mist fine with me. Just don’t go around telling people who don’t believe as you do that they don’t get to Heaven. It’s arrogant, and rude.

Yeah, Jesus is arrogant and rude. You tell Him when you see Him.

 

[Lisa558]

Yeah, Jesus is arrogant and rude. You tell Him when you see Him.

I said YOU were arrogant and rude.

 

[BS Filter]

I said YOU were arrogant and rude.

I quote the words of Jesus.

 

[BreezeWood]

Provide that document written in the hand of Judas.

Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millenium, notes that prior to the disturbance at the Temple, nothing Jesus had said suggested he thought himself the Messiah or "King of the Jews. "Asking the question, "So where did the authorities get the idea that he did?," Erhman suggests an answer: Judas. As a motive for his betrayal ....

historical evidence ... "apocalyptic prophet of the new millennium"

"that prior to the disturbance at the Temple" ... jesus was not a jew, renounced the liar moses and with others sought liberation theology, self determination than the vial 10 commandments used to persecute and victimize the innocent. judaism.

- as the heavenly religion of antiquity granted a&e for their journey - the true path for remission to paradise. the triumph of good vs evil.