CDZ Are anti gunners serious when they say they will stop at 10 round magazines?

[BlackSand]

The AR 15 was NEVER a combat rifle it was always always always made for civilian use

That's not exactly true ... The firearm I was issued in the military was a Colt Arms AR-15 (7.62 x 39).

There are several firearms with the AR-15 identifier ... And not all of them are standard military issue.
Not all military issue assault rifles are the Colt Arms AR-15.

.

 

[BlackSand]

That difference is more a reflection of the differences of the 2 societies and all the variables involved with those differences and not from gun laws alone as you say.

That is correct ... But I am pretty sure there are people that won't understand it.
Culture does play a part ... The same as the way we look at statistics.


Edit:
As an obscure example to identify what I am talking about ... Italians drink more red.
Italians in general that drink more red wine have less incidences of certain heart problems ... there is a connection.
Italians have single payer healthcare.

If the argument the person is trying to make supports drinking red wine ... Italians are healthier because they drink red wine.
If the argument the person is trying to make is for single payer healthcare ... Italians are healthier because they have single payer healthcare.

It's the same Italians either way ... They may benefit both from drinking red wine and single payer healthcare ...
But that doesn't mean we cannot drink Jack Daniels and buy aspirin at the drugstore here.

.

 

[BULLDOG]

Don't expect me to believe 30 rounds is the normal standard capacity for rifles. Just because 30 rounds are available for some doesn't mean that is the defacto standard. Extremely high power scopes are available for most rifles, but I wouldn't say they are standard equipment. Try to maintain a little honesty for both our sakes. I have never even seen a 30 round clip on anything other than a military type weapon, other than in advertisements, and I have hunted and gone to gun ranges all my life.

I don't expect you to believe anything ... You can think whatever you like.
You can decide to accept or reject whatever suits your desires ... But that really doesn't mean crap.

I cannot be more honest about it ... A 30 round mag is a 30 round mag.
All the mags I own (for the AR-15) are 30 round mags ... None of them say "high capacity" on them.

Again ... I am not talking about hunting or going to the range ... And don't have a problem with you hunting nor going to the range.
I have already stated the AR-15 I own is identical to the firearm I was issued in the military minus the selector switch having a full-auto selection.

You are arguing with me about your desires ... To wit I can honestly say ... "So what"?
The best I can do for you here ... Is keep reminding you that you have nothing to offer ... We are allowed to own what we already do.
We aren't asking you for anything ... We don't need to convince you to do anything ... We don't need your permission nor agreement at all.

Call your Representatives ... It is that fricken simple ...

.

Who said specifically Ar-15? I was told that 30 rounds was standard for rifles. There as no brand or caliber mentioned. Of course an AR-15 was designed to have 30 rounds. It as specifically designed as a combat weapon, and only had the fully auto capability removed for civilian sale. Assuming that magazine capacity in a new rifle is totally random as you claim, and I highly doubt, That would mean that there is no standard. 30 rounds can't be standard if standard doesn't exist.

No....the standard for that rifle used to be 20 round magazines, till they came up with the 30, now the 30 is standard....and the AR-15 is a civilian rifle that has never been used in combat.

Saying 30 round magazines for rifles is standard is a lie. The AR-15 is a weapon that was specifically designed for combat with minor modifications for civilian sales. The extended capacity magazine is part of that combat specific design. Many rifles come with a 10 round magazine.

The AR 15 was NEVER a combat rifle it was always always always made for civilian use

It was first designed as the M-16 military combat rifle, and later was slightly modified and called an AR-15 to sell to civilians.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Semiautomatic rifles are not "assault weapons"

And no many of those countries with gun bans have higher incidences of crime than we do.

The UK in fact has 3 times as many crimes per capita than the US twice as many rapes and twice as many assaults

Yes they are

Try to buy an AR-15 in England or France

UK has a murder rate one quarter of ours, same as France

Criminals in France get fully automatic military rifles easily, they are a status symbol there. Terrorists, on government terrorist watch lists, many with criminal convictions for other crimes got fully automatic, military rifles, hand grenades and pistols....and murdered 142 people...that doesn't count the other murders with automatic weapons in France either....

French gunman's arsenal spotlights illegal arms trade


The size and nature of the arsenal amassed by Merah - who stockpiled at least eight guns including a Kalashnikov assault rifle and an Uzi machine pistol - has focused attention on the easy availability of illegal weapons in France and their growing use in ultra-violent crimes.


Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.

No they don't

They have one fifth our murder rate
The joys of tough gun regulation

countries that have enacted those tough gun laws did not see their murder rates drop after those laws were passed.

we banned an entire class of semiautomatic rifles for 10 years and it didn't effect the murder rate in this country at all

Australia did

so what?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't expect you to believe anything ... You can think whatever you like.
You can decide to accept or reject whatever suits your desires ... But that really doesn't mean crap.

I cannot be more honest about it ... A 30 round mag is a 30 round mag.
All the mags I own (for the AR-15) are 30 round mags ... None of them say "high capacity" on them.

Again ... I am not talking about hunting or going to the range ... And don't have a problem with you hunting nor going to the range.
I have already stated the AR-15 I own is identical to the firearm I was issued in the military minus the selector switch having a full-auto selection.

You are arguing with me about your desires ... To wit I can honestly say ... "So what"?
The best I can do for you here ... Is keep reminding you that you have nothing to offer ... We are allowed to own what we already do.
We aren't asking you for anything ... We don't need to convince you to do anything ... We don't need your permission nor agreement at all.

Call your Representatives ... It is that fricken simple ...

.

Who said specifically Ar-15? I was told that 30 rounds was standard for rifles. There as no brand or caliber mentioned. Of course an AR-15 was designed to have 30 rounds. It as specifically designed as a combat weapon, and only had the fully auto capability removed for civilian sale. Assuming that magazine capacity in a new rifle is totally random as you claim, and I highly doubt, That would mean that there is no standard. 30 rounds can't be standard if standard doesn't exist.

No....the standard for that rifle used to be 20 round magazines, till they came up with the 30, now the 30 is standard....and the AR-15 is a civilian rifle that has never been used in combat.

Saying 30 round magazines for rifles is standard is a lie. The AR-15 is a weapon that was specifically designed for combat with minor modifications for civilian sales. The extended capacity magazine is part of that combat specific design. Many rifles come with a 10 round magazine.

The AR 15 was NEVER a combat rifle it was always always always made for civilian use

It was first designed as the M-16 military combat rifle, and later was slightly modified and called an AR-15 to sell to civilians.

And the AR 15 never was and never will be anything but a civilian rifle that LOOKS LIKE a military rifle

And the .223 round was offered to the civilian market before it's use in the military. So it seems that the .223 caliber military rifle was an adaptation of a civilian rifle not the reverse as you say

.223 Remington - Wikipedia

The .223 Rem was first offered to the civilian sporting market in December 1963 in the Remington 760rifle. [4] In 1964 the .223 Rem cartridge was adopted for use in the Colt M16 rifle which became an alternate standard rifle of the U.S. Army.

 

[BULLDOG]

Who said specifically Ar-15? I was told that 30 rounds was standard for rifles. There as no brand or caliber mentioned. Of course an AR-15 was designed to have 30 rounds. It as specifically designed as a combat weapon, and only had the fully auto capability removed for civilian sale. Assuming that magazine capacity in a new rifle is totally random as you claim, and I highly doubt, That would mean that there is no standard. 30 rounds can't be standard if standard doesn't exist.

No....the standard for that rifle used to be 20 round magazines, till they came up with the 30, now the 30 is standard....and the AR-15 is a civilian rifle that has never been used in combat.

Saying 30 round magazines for rifles is standard is a lie. The AR-15 is a weapon that was specifically designed for combat with minor modifications for civilian sales. The extended capacity magazine is part of that combat specific design. Many rifles come with a 10 round magazine.

The AR 15 was NEVER a combat rifle it was always always always made for civilian use

It was first designed as the M-16 military combat rifle, and later was slightly modified and called an AR-15 to sell to civilians.

And the AR 15 never was and never will be anything but a civilian rifle that LOOKS LIKE a military rifle

And the .223 round was offered to the civilian market before it's use in the military. So it seems that the .223 caliber military rifle was an adaptation of a civilian rifle not the reverse as you say

.223 Remington - Wikipedia

The .223 Rem was first offered to the civilian sporting market in December 1963 in the Remington 760rifle. [4] In 1964 the .223 Rem cartridge was adopted for use in the Colt M16 rifle which became an alternate standard rifle of the U.S. Army.

So the only defining characteristics of the M-16/Ar-15 is the caliber? You're trying really hard but failing miserably.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No....the standard for that rifle used to be 20 round magazines, till they came up with the 30, now the 30 is standard....and the AR-15 is a civilian rifle that has never been used in combat.

Saying 30 round magazines for rifles is standard is a lie. The AR-15 is a weapon that was specifically designed for combat with minor modifications for civilian sales. The extended capacity magazine is part of that combat specific design. Many rifles come with a 10 round magazine.

The AR 15 was NEVER a combat rifle it was always always always made for civilian use

It was first designed as the M-16 military combat rifle, and later was slightly modified and called an AR-15 to sell to civilians.

And the AR 15 never was and never will be anything but a civilian rifle that LOOKS LIKE a military rifle

And the .223 round was offered to the civilian market before it's use in the military. So it seems that the .223 caliber military rifle was an adaptation of a civilian rifle not the reverse as you say

.223 Remington - Wikipedia

The .223 Rem was first offered to the civilian sporting market in December 1963 in the Remington 760rifle. [4] In 1964 the .223 Rem cartridge was adopted for use in the Colt M16 rifle which became an alternate standard rifle of the U.S. Army.

So the only defining characteristics of the M-16/Ar-15 is the caliber? You're trying really hard but failing miserably.

The only defining characteristic of any civilian rifle that matters is the caliber.

You still have not realized that there is a difference between civilian and military rifles have you?

What problem exactly do you have with civilian rifles that look like military rifles?

Is my .223 ranch rifle with wood stock and a 20 round magazine somehow more acceptable than a .223 rifle with predominately plastic and polymer parts ?

 

[BlackSand]

And the AR 15 never was and never will be anything but a civilian rifle that LOOKS LIKE a military rifle

And the .223 round was offered to the civilian market before it's use in the military. So it seems that the .223 caliber military rifle was an adaptation of a civilian rifle not the reverse as you say

.223 Remington - Wikipedia

The .223 Rem was first offered to the civilian sporting market in December 1963 in the Remington 760rifle. [4] In 1964 the .223 Rem cartridge was adopted for use in the Colt M16 rifle which became an alternate standard rifle of the U.S. Army.

I never carried a M-16 ... Never carried a .223 in the military.
I carried a Colt Arms AR-15 (7.62 x 39) for seven years in the Army ... And don't need a link to tell you that.

Here's a list of the maunfacturers that have produced one version or another of the AR-15 ... for the Military ... ArmaLite, Double D Armory, LTD, Lewis Machine and Tool, Colt, Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, Stag Arms, DPMS Panther Arms, Olympic Arms ... And they range between .223 and .308.

Edit:
You are correct in the fact that it doesn't make a difference though.
The firearm does not include target selection ... The shooter has to do that (number of targets is not a requirement).

Here's a list of the different models on the same frame (basic design) produced by Colt (or their subsidiaries).
There are over 100 different models manufactured for military use ... Even more specifically for civilian use ... And that is just Colt Arms (or their subsidiaries).

List of Colt AR-15 variants - Wikipedia

.

 

[jon_berzerk]

“Tonight I can report that a person can be both a publicly committed originalist and textualist and be confirmed to the Supreme Court of the United States,” Gorsuch said. “Originalism has regained its place at the table … textualism has triumphed … and neither one is going anywhere on my watch.”-… textualism has triumphed … and neither one is going anywhere on my watch.”-Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch

Neil Gorsuch: Scalia's views on the Constitution aren't 'going anywhere on my watch'

 

[jon_berzerk]

Saying 30 round magazines for rifles is standard is a lie. The AR-15 is a weapon that was specifically designed for combat with minor modifications for civilian sales. The extended capacity magazine is part of that combat specific design. Many rifles come with a 10 round magazine.

The AR 15 was NEVER a combat rifle it was always always always made for civilian use

It was first designed as the M-16 military combat rifle, and later was slightly modified and called an AR-15 to sell to civilians.

And the AR 15 never was and never will be anything but a civilian rifle that LOOKS LIKE a military rifle

And the .223 round was offered to the civilian market before it's use in the military. So it seems that the .223 caliber military rifle was an adaptation of a civilian rifle not the reverse as you say

.223 Remington - Wikipedia

The .223 Rem was first offered to the civilian sporting market in December 1963 in the Remington 760rifle. [4] In 1964 the .223 Rem cartridge was adopted for use in the Colt M16 rifle which became an alternate standard rifle of the U.S. Army.

So the only defining characteristics of the M-16/Ar-15 is the caliber? You're trying really hard but failing miserably.

The only defining characteristic of any civilian rifle that matters is the caliber.

You still have not realized that there is a difference between civilian and military rifles have you?

What problem exactly do you have with civilian rifles that look like military rifles?

Is my .223 ranch rifle with wood stock and a 20 round magazine somehow more acceptable than a .223 rifle with predominately plastic and polymer parts ?

The only defining characteristic of any civilian rifle that matters is the caliber.

i would say caliber and size of casing

the cosmetic awb was usueless

as well as any attempt at another awb

 

[2aguy]

Don't expect me to believe 30 rounds is the normal standard capacity for rifles. Just because 30 rounds are available for some doesn't mean that is the defacto standard. Extremely high power scopes are available for most rifles, but I wouldn't say they are standard equipment. Try to maintain a little honesty for both our sakes. I have never even seen a 30 round clip on anything other than a military type weapon, other than in advertisements, and I have hunted and gone to gun ranges all my life.

I don't expect you to believe anything ... You can think whatever you like.
You can decide to accept or reject whatever suits your desires ... But that really doesn't mean crap.

I cannot be more honest about it ... A 30 round mag is a 30 round mag.
All the mags I own (for the AR-15) are 30 round mags ... None of them say "high capacity" on them.

Again ... I am not talking about hunting or going to the range ... And don't have a problem with you hunting nor going to the range.
I have already stated the AR-15 I own is identical to the firearm I was issued in the military minus the selector switch having a full-auto selection.

You are arguing with me about your desires ... To wit I can honestly say ... "So what"?
The best I can do for you here ... Is keep reminding you that you have nothing to offer ... We are allowed to own what we already do.
We aren't asking you for anything ... We don't need to convince you to do anything ... We don't need your permission nor agreement at all.

Call your Representatives ... It is that fricken simple ...

.

Who said specifically Ar-15? I was told that 30 rounds was standard for rifles. There as no brand or caliber mentioned. Of course an AR-15 was designed to have 30 rounds. It as specifically designed as a combat weapon, and only had the fully auto capability removed for civilian sale. Assuming that magazine capacity in a new rifle is totally random as you claim, and I highly doubt, That would mean that there is no standard. 30 rounds can't be standard if standard doesn't exist.

No....the standard for that rifle used to be 20 round magazines, till they came up with the 30, now the 30 is standard....and the AR-15 is a civilian rifle that has never been used in combat.

Saying 30 round magazines for rifles is standard is a lie. The AR-15 is a weapon that was specifically designed for combat with minor modifications for civilian sales. The extended capacity magazine is part of that combat specific design. Many rifles come with a 10 round magazine.

No.....a weapon that cannot be used fully automatic is not a minor modification it is a defining difference between the military rifle and the civilian rifle. The 30 round magazine is now standard issue for sales of these rifles......

There is no rational reason to ban these magazines for people who will not use them for crime.....about 100 million of these magazines exist, for 13 million rifles in private hands and you think that 2 criminals using these weapons to murder people, out of all the normal people who own and use them is rational? Sorry, not even close.....if that held you would be for banning cars for everyone except the police and the military......

You have an extreme, irrational fear of guns.....and your fear doesn't get to dictate what my Rights are....

 

[2aguy]

The left always says they just want common sense gun control....and one of those measures they always want is a limit on 10 bullets for all magazines

Now, keep in mind, this will not limit the deaths in mass shootings, as actual research shows. The killers, like the guy in Texas had plenty of magazines and changed them 14 times while he was murdering those people.

And Criminals won't care about a 10 round limit because they will just get theirs illegally, and they can rape a woman just as easily with a 10 round magazine, murder a rival or rob someone.

The only people a 10 round magazine limit effects is the law abiding gun owner, who does not commit any crime or murder. People who have guns that take 15-19 rounds in their pistols...will now be criminals if they don't do something with their guns.....dittos rifles that will take 30 round magazines.....

I have listed the points made by David Kopel on why law abiding people need more than 10 rounds, in other places and would happily do so again. I have also posted the ruling by the California judge placing a hold on the new California magazine ban where he accurately takes apart all of the arguments made against 10 round magazines.

The question, however, is this.........if the anti gunners get all the 15-30 round magazines....will they leave the 10 round magazines alone?

Keep in mind, the Santa Barbara shooter used 10 round magazines to murder 6 people.......

Laws against murder do not stop murder. Murderers don't follow those laws, so lets just do away with those useless laws. That makes as much sense as the silly crap you keep repeating.

Except in the UK the murder rate is 1/4 the US murder rate, the US murder rate is 3/4 guns. The UK saw 23 gun murders in 2013, the US saw 11,208. Now, take that the UK is 5 times smaller, that's still 115 compared to 11,208. I mean, the laws don't work? Are you kidding me?

Yes....you keep repeating the murder rate......and you fail to say why the murder rate is low.....we have shown over and over that British criminals have guns...lots of guns....they use those guns for crime......so their access to guns isn't limited by their gun control laws....so their gun control laws have no effect on their gun murder rate since the gun murder rate was low before they banned guns....and after they banned guns their gun murder rate went up.

Their criminals have to this point not used murder to advance their criminal activity....and we keep telling you that is changing.....you don't want to admit the truth because you want to use Britain to ban guns here......

 

[2aguy]

Semiautomatic rifles are not "assault weapons"

And no many of those countries with gun bans have higher incidences of crime than we do.

The UK in fact has 3 times as many crimes per capita than the US twice as many rapes and twice as many assaults

Yes they are

Try to buy an AR-15 in England or France

UK has a murder rate one quarter of ours, same as France

Criminals in France get fully automatic military rifles easily, they are a status symbol there. Terrorists, on government terrorist watch lists, many with criminal convictions for other crimes got fully automatic, military rifles, hand grenades and pistols....and murdered 142 people...that doesn't count the other murders with automatic weapons in France either....

French gunman's arsenal spotlights illegal arms trade


The size and nature of the arsenal amassed by Merah - who stockpiled at least eight guns including a Kalashnikov assault rifle and an Uzi machine pistol - has focused attention on the easy availability of illegal weapons in France and their growing use in ultra-violent crimes.


Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.

No they don't

They have one fifth our murder rate
The joys of tough gun regulation

countries that have enacted those tough gun laws did not see their murder rates drop after those laws were passed.

we banned an entire class of semiautomatic rifles for 10 years and it didn't effect the murder rate in this country at all

Australia did

Australia had a low gun murder rate...it is now going up...after the ban...

Australia’s Gun 'Buyback' Created a Violent Firearms Black Market. Why Should the U.S. Do the Same?

Just days ago, Australia's Peter Dutton, Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, and Michael Keenan, Minister for Justice, held a joint press conference to announce "We don't tolerate gun smuggling in Australia and we know Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs are engaged in it. We have been keen to send the strongest possible message from Canberra that we're not going to tolerate people smuggling in guns or smuggling in gun parts. You'd appreciate that even one smuggled gun can do an enormous amount of damage."

When politicians announce that they don't tolerate something, it's a fair bet that the something is completely out of hand.

"Police admit they cannot eradicate a black market that is peddling illegal guns to criminals," the Adelaide Advertiser concededa few years ago. "Motorcycle gang members and convicted criminals barred from buying guns in South Australia have no difficulty obtaining illegal firearms - including fully automatic weapons."

More recently, the country's The New Daily gained access to "previously unpublished data for firearms offences" and reporteda surge in crime "including a massive 83 per cent increase in firearms offences in NSW between 2005/06 and 2014/15, and an even bigger jump in Victoria over the same period."

"Australians may be more at risk from gun crime than ever before with the country's underground market for firearms ballooning in the past decade," the report added. "[T]he national ban on semi-automatic weapons following the Port Arthur massacre had spawned criminal demand for handguns."

Much as the Mafia and other organized criminal outfits rose to power, wealth, and prominence by supplying illegal liquor during Prohibition in the United States, outlaw motorcycle gangs in Australia appear to be building international connections and making money by supplying guns to willing buyers.



Scary trend in Australian gun crime

MONDAY’S siege in Sydney that saw three people shot and three held hostage before the gunman turned the firearm on himself was a terrifying reminder of the Lindt cafe crisis just over a year ago.

It comes as another man was shot dead in Victoria at close range last night, three days after a man was killed in a suspected shooting at a Melbourne motel and four days after a man was shot dead at a property in Ipswich, Queensland, with police called just after 2am.

Last month, a man accused of a shooting in Canberra allegedly boasted to police that the victim would be dead if he had pulled the trigger, because he had significant experience with firearms, despite not having a licence.

There were 207 firearms deaths in Australia in 2013, a rate of 0.93 per 100,000 people, higher than in 19 other countries, including the UK, Bolivia and Zimbabwe.

While we often shake our heads in horror at America’s problems with gun crime, it’s clear we are far from immune from the deadly influence of firearms.

-----------

In New South Wales, weapons offences have risen 8.7 per cent per year over the past five years, to 11,471 in the year to September 2015. The New Daily reported in November that incidents involving firearms rose 83 per cent in NSW from 2005-6 to 2014-5.

Charges for possession and trafficking of guns in South Australia saw a 49 per cent rise over four years.



------------



Victoria is similarly affected, with a 52 per cent increase in firearms offences to 3645 between 2009-10 and 2014-15. In Tasmania, there was a 26 per cent increase in firearm-related offences between December 2012 and 2015.

Victoria police chief Steve Fontana this week expressed fears about the rapid increase in shootings in the past eight months. The state’s Crime Statistics Agency Chief Statistician Fiona Dowsley said in December: “Weapons and explosives offences and drug use and possession offences have again seen statistically significant increases this quarter.”

 

[2aguy]

I don't expect you to believe anything ... You can think whatever you like.
You can decide to accept or reject whatever suits your desires ... But that really doesn't mean crap.

I cannot be more honest about it ... A 30 round mag is a 30 round mag.
All the mags I own (for the AR-15) are 30 round mags ... None of them say "high capacity" on them.

Again ... I am not talking about hunting or going to the range ... And don't have a problem with you hunting nor going to the range.
I have already stated the AR-15 I own is identical to the firearm I was issued in the military minus the selector switch having a full-auto selection.

You are arguing with me about your desires ... To wit I can honestly say ... "So what"?
The best I can do for you here ... Is keep reminding you that you have nothing to offer ... We are allowed to own what we already do.
We aren't asking you for anything ... We don't need to convince you to do anything ... We don't need your permission nor agreement at all.

Call your Representatives ... It is that fricken simple ...

.

Who said specifically Ar-15? I was told that 30 rounds was standard for rifles. There as no brand or caliber mentioned. Of course an AR-15 was designed to have 30 rounds. It as specifically designed as a combat weapon, and only had the fully auto capability removed for civilian sale. Assuming that magazine capacity in a new rifle is totally random as you claim, and I highly doubt, That would mean that there is no standard. 30 rounds can't be standard if standard doesn't exist.

No....the standard for that rifle used to be 20 round magazines, till they came up with the 30, now the 30 is standard....and the AR-15 is a civilian rifle that has never been used in combat.

Saying 30 round magazines for rifles is standard is a lie. The AR-15 is a weapon that was specifically designed for combat with minor modifications for civilian sales. The extended capacity magazine is part of that combat specific design. Many rifles come with a 10 round magazine.

The AR 15 was NEVER a combat rifle it was always always always made for civilian use

It was first designed as the M-16 military combat rifle, and later was slightly modified and called an AR-15 to sell to civilians.

Civilians have the civilian rifle as you just posted.....the AR-15 is not a military rifle, never has been....

 

[rightwinger]

Yes they are

Try to buy an AR-15 in England or France

UK has a murder rate one quarter of ours, same as France

Criminals in France get fully automatic military rifles easily, they are a status symbol there. Terrorists, on government terrorist watch lists, many with criminal convictions for other crimes got fully automatic, military rifles, hand grenades and pistols....and murdered 142 people...that doesn't count the other murders with automatic weapons in France either....

French gunman's arsenal spotlights illegal arms trade


The size and nature of the arsenal amassed by Merah - who stockpiled at least eight guns including a Kalashnikov assault rifle and an Uzi machine pistol - has focused attention on the easy availability of illegal weapons in France and their growing use in ultra-violent crimes.


Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.

No they don't

They have one fifth our murder rate
The joys of tough gun regulation

countries that have enacted those tough gun laws did not see their murder rates drop after those laws were passed.

we banned an entire class of semiautomatic rifles for 10 years and it didn't effect the murder rate in this country at all

Australia did

so what?

Too funny

 

[BULLDOG]

The left always says they just want common sense gun control....and one of those measures they always want is a limit on 10 bullets for all magazines

Now, keep in mind, this will not limit the deaths in mass shootings, as actual research shows. The killers, like the guy in Texas had plenty of magazines and changed them 14 times while he was murdering those people.

And Criminals won't care about a 10 round limit because they will just get theirs illegally, and they can rape a woman just as easily with a 10 round magazine, murder a rival or rob someone.

The only people a 10 round magazine limit effects is the law abiding gun owner, who does not commit any crime or murder. People who have guns that take 15-19 rounds in their pistols...will now be criminals if they don't do something with their guns.....dittos rifles that will take 30 round magazines.....

I have listed the points made by David Kopel on why law abiding people need more than 10 rounds, in other places and would happily do so again. I have also posted the ruling by the California judge placing a hold on the new California magazine ban where he accurately takes apart all of the arguments made against 10 round magazines.

The question, however, is this.........if the anti gunners get all the 15-30 round magazines....will they leave the 10 round magazines alone?

Keep in mind, the Santa Barbara shooter used 10 round magazines to murder 6 people.......

Laws against murder do not stop murder. Murderers don't follow those laws, so lets just do away with those useless laws. That makes as much sense as the silly crap you keep repeating.

Except in the UK the murder rate is 1/4 the US murder rate, the US murder rate is 3/4 guns. The UK saw 23 gun murders in 2013, the US saw 11,208. Now, take that the UK is 5 times smaller, that's still 115 compared to 11,208. I mean, the laws don't work? Are you kidding me?

Yes....you keep repeating the murder rate......and you fail to say why the murder rate is low.....we have shown over and over that British criminals have guns...lots of guns....they use those guns for crime......so their access to guns isn't limited by their gun control laws....so their gun control laws have no effect on their gun murder rate since the gun murder rate was low before they banned guns....and after they banned guns their gun murder rate went up.

Their criminals have to this point not used murder to advance their criminal activity....and we keep telling you that is changing.....you don't want to admit the truth because you want to use Britain to ban guns here......

You've continued to show that you don't understand that a tiny gun related death rate is better than our massive gun related death rate. I guess some people are just a little slower than others.

 

[BULLDOG]

Who said specifically Ar-15? I was told that 30 rounds was standard for rifles. There as no brand or caliber mentioned. Of course an AR-15 was designed to have 30 rounds. It as specifically designed as a combat weapon, and only had the fully auto capability removed for civilian sale. Assuming that magazine capacity in a new rifle is totally random as you claim, and I highly doubt, That would mean that there is no standard. 30 rounds can't be standard if standard doesn't exist.

No....the standard for that rifle used to be 20 round magazines, till they came up with the 30, now the 30 is standard....and the AR-15 is a civilian rifle that has never been used in combat.

Saying 30 round magazines for rifles is standard is a lie. The AR-15 is a weapon that was specifically designed for combat with minor modifications for civilian sales. The extended capacity magazine is part of that combat specific design. Many rifles come with a 10 round magazine.

The AR 15 was NEVER a combat rifle it was always always always made for civilian use

It was first designed as the M-16 military combat rifle, and later was slightly modified and called an AR-15 to sell to civilians.

Civilians have the civilian rifle as you just posted.....the AR-15 is not a military rifle, never has been....

See post# 421

 

[Jarlaxle]

If Select fire and full auto is not the only difference between a designed for combat M-16, and an Ar-15 what is?

Depending on the make and model ... The caliber of the cartridge, basic operation, actual design and available attachment options.
The rounds aren't even the same for all models ... And can range from .223, NATO 5.56 x 45 to 7.62 x 39 (.308).

I am pretty sure this is why the argument is generally a bunch of minutia ... There are no absolutes.
The weapons can be confused ... Different manufacturers make them differently (they also don't all have the same name or nomenclature).

It would be tough to write legislation because it would also have to include firearms that don't necessarily meet all of those requirements.
It would be easier to write a law that simply stated ... No more "scary guns" because that is about the only thing they actually all have in common (to some people anyway).

.

Don't be ridiculous. A gun specifically designed for military use in combat has no reasonable purpose for civilian use, even if it is no longer full auto capable.

No matter how many times you regurgitate that, it is still wrong.

 

[BlackSand]

No matter how many times you regurgitate that, it is still wrong.

Yeah ... I am pretty sure they are never going to understand that.
Yeah, they kill people ... If necessary, that's one of the reasons we own them.

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[Jarlaxle]

The AR 15 was NEVER a combat rifle it was always always always made for civilian use

That's not exactly true ... The firearm I was issued in the military was a Colt Arms AR-15 (7.62 x 39).

There are several firearms with the AR-15 identifier ... And not all of them are standard military issue.
Not all military issue assault rifles are the Colt Arms AR-15.

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BULLSHIT! You were NOT issued anything in 7.62x39!