Another terror attack is a certainty

[kyzr]

The heads of the US security agencies said that another terror attack within the next 3 to 6 months is a "slam dunk".

Am I the only one who wants to unleash the CIA, FBI and NSA to save American lives? I want the gloves off, and I want political correctness destroyed.

New poll, which do you prefer as a US citizen. More safety for your family or less intrusion by the NSA and FBI?

 

[Luissa]

I wonder what color we are at?

 

[kyzr]

I wonder color we are at?

Too bad you're just a cartoon, I love those fun bags....

 

[Modbert]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin.

 

[kyzr]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin.

He's dead. What else you got?

 

[Modbert]

He's dead. What else you got?

He's one of the essential Founding Fathers, someone who I assume you mention quite often in your arguments against Obama.

How about these?

"People can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...All you have to do is tell them they're being attacked and denounce the pacifists for a lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." Hermann Goering (Second in command to Hitler)

"Accustomed to trample on the rights of others, you have lost the genius of your own independence and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises among you" Abraham Lincoln (1858)

"Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." John Adams 2nd U.S. President


"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."
Patrick Henry (1736-1739)

"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine (1737-1809)

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences of too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1791)

"History teaches us that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure."
Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall (1989)

"It is during our most challenging and uncertain moments that our Nation's commitment to due process is most severely tested; and it is in those times that we must preserve our commitment at home to the principles for which we fight abroad."
Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor
Hamdi v. Rumsfeld - 2004

 

[Luissa]

We should kill all the mosquitos!

 

[kyzr]

He's dead. What else you got?

He's one of the essential Founding Fathers, someone who I assume you mention quite often in your arguments against Obama.

How about these?

"People can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...All you have to do is tell them they're being attacked and denounce the pacifists for a lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." Hermann Goering (Second in command to Hitler)

"Accustomed to trample on the rights of others, you have lost the genius of your own independence and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises among you" Abraham Lincoln (1858)

"Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." John Adams 2nd U.S. President


"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."
Patrick Henry (1736-1739)

"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine (1737-1809)

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences of too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1791)

"History teaches us that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure."
Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall (1989)

"It is during our most challenging and uncertain moments that our Nation's commitment to due process is most severely tested; and it is in those times that we must preserve our commitment at home to the principles for which we fight abroad."
Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor
Hamdi v. Rumsfeld - 2004

1. The US Constitution is NOT a suicide Pact.
2. Monitoring communications is NOT a violation of privacy.
3. The Constitution does NOT grant a right to privacy.
4. Terrorists are a clear and present danger. There is no reason to worry about "rights" when lives are at risk. (i.e. which is worth more a human life or a phone call?)

 

[potter 58]

so k , forget the constitution is what you are saying, wow you must be one little scared pussy, be afraid , very afraid, The blowhard cowboy/Cheney sure scared the living shit out of you

 

[Modbert]

1. The US Constitution is NOT a suicide Pact.
2. Monitoring communications is NOT a violation of privacy.
3. The Constitution does NOT grant a right to privacy.
4. Terrorists are a clear and present danger. There is no reason to worry about "rights" when lives are at risk. (i.e. which is worth more a human life or a phone call?)

Monitoring communications is in fact a violation to privacy. Which is why if police officers want to wiretap criminals, they have to (or least use to) have to go to a judge, get a warrant, etc. And they had to have something called probable cause. You probably heard of it at some point in history class no?

Terrorists are a clear and present danger, but so are cars. You going to start banning cars?

You define the phone call as just a phone call. However, it goes far beyond that. A phone call not monitored by the government is a sign of the freedoms that we as a people have. And besides, it always begins as just "listening in" but then more freedoms are taken in the veil of "safety and freedom."

The highway to hell is paved with good intentions, you ought to remember that.

 

[Douger]

The heads of the US security agencies said that another terror attack within the next 3 to 6 months is a "slam dunk".

Am I the only one who wants to unleash the CIA, FBI and NSA to save American lives? I want the gloves off, and I want political correctness destroyed.

New poll, which do you prefer as a US citizen. More safety for your family or less intrusion by the NSA and FBI?

Please call the Pentagram and get some dates and locations.
That'll be good for tourism.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Which do you prefer, more security or more safety?

Something about this polling question stinks

 

[kyzr]

Monitoring communications is in fact a violation to privacy. Which is why if police officers want to wiretap criminals, they have to (or least use to) have to go to a judge, get a warrant, etc. And they had to have something called probable cause. You probably heard of it at some point in history class no?

Terrorists are a clear and present danger, but so are cars. You going to start banning cars?

You define the phone call as just a phone call. However, it goes far beyond that. A phone call not monitored by the government is a sign of the freedoms that we as a people have. And besides, it always begins as just "listening in" but then more freedoms are taken in the veil of "safety and freedom."

The highway to hell is paved with good intentions, you ought to remember that.

1. Who says that phone calls are privileged? During WW2 ALL communications were censored. IMHO, since we are at war w/terrorists, ALL communications are fair-game using WW2 as precedent.
2. Where in the Constitution does it say that communications are private, or that citizens have a right to privacy?
3. A phone call is not worth a human life. If monitoring will stop guys like the FT Hood killer, good idea.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

1. Who says that phone calls are privileged? During WW2 ALL communications were censored. IMHO, since we are at war w/terrorists, ALL communications are fair-game using WW2 as precedent.

This is going to end very badly....

2. Where in the Constitution does it say that communications are private, or that citizens have a right to privacy?

Google, bitch.

The contents of telephone communications are fully protected by the Fourth Amendment. Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347, 353-354 (1967). The Government must satisfy stringent procedural requirements, discussed below, before it can acquire the contents of communications. Berger v. New York, 388 U.S. 41, 63-64 (1967) (“t is not asking too much that officers be required to comply with the basic command of the Fourth Amendment before the innermost secrets of one's home or office are invaded. Few threats to liberty exist which are greater than that posed by the use of eavesdropping devices.”).
However, the Supreme Court has found no reasonable expectation of privacy in telephone numbers dialed or transmitted to initiate telephone calls. Smith v. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735, 745 (1979); id. at 742-744 (pen register does not “acquire the contents of communication,” but only “numerical information” that is “voluntarily conveyed…to the telephone company” so that calls may be completed). Smith v. Maryland has been repeatedly criticized by legal scholars. See, e.g., Daniel J. Solove, Digital Dossiers and the Dissipation of Fourth Amendment Privacy, 75 S. CAL. L. REV. 1083, 1137-1138 (2002); Stephen E. Henderson, Nothing New Under the Sun? A Technologically Rational Doctrine of Fourth Amendment Search, 56 MERCER L. REV. 507, 524-528 (2005); Anita Ramasastry, Lost In Translation? Data Mining, National Security and the “Adverse Inference” Problem, 22 SANTA CLARA COMPUTER & HIGH TECH. L.J. 757, 764-766 (2006); Susan Freiwald, Uncertain Privacy: Communication Attributes After the Digital Telephony Act, 69 S. CAL. L. REV. 949, 982-989 (1996) (discussing the limited capacity of the pen/trap devices analyzed in Smith and explaining how modern pen/trap devices collect far more information).

Privacy: Statutory Protections - Internet Law Treatise

3. A phone call is not worth a human life. If monitoring will stop guys like the FT Hood killer, good idea.

Your 'privacy' is not worth a human life. You shall be have your anal cavity searched before entering any and every business and also during random traffic stops to ensure the security of America. Terrorists, you see. 9/11 and Hitler conspiring to buy yellowcake uranium form unwed teenage mothers. They're using Cohag Lake as a base, you see.

 

[potter 58]

Ok K, since nothing should be private, how about Cheney's secret energy meetings, my just is they had a lot more to do with Iraq than any national security issue, just follow the oil, opps I mean money , what do ya think

 

[Modbert]

1. Who says that phone calls are privileged? During WW2 ALL communications were censored. IMHO, since we are at war w/terrorists, ALL communications are fair-game using WW2 as precedent.
2. Where in the Constitution does it say that communications are private, or that citizens have a right to privacy?
3. A phone call is not worth a human life. If monitoring will stop guys like the FT Hood killer, good idea.

1.) Yes, it was. As it was during WWI. Wilson and the Sedition Act in which he sent innocent Americans to jail just for speaking out against the war. It happened long before that with John Adams as well. And FDR also limited Americans's civil liberties. I doubt I need to remind you of all the internment camps we put innocent Japanese Americans in. Especially since I'm sure you agree with Michelle Malkin in throwing a bunch of Muslim Americans in the same sort of internment camps today.

2.) Not specifically mentioned, however the Supreme Court has determined over the years that the right to privacy is a basic human right and as such is protected by the 9th Amendment.

See: Griswold and Eisenstadt cases (contraception), Loving (interracial marriage), and of course Roe (abortion)

See also: 4th Amendment with the search and seizure limits.

See also: 3rd Amendment that is rarely used but still in place.

And of course the 5th Amendment with the self-incrimination limit.

3.) You have no way to know whether a phone call would save lives or not. There is no measure to judge as such.

Verdict: I see where you're coming from, but you're incorrect and I have to disagree. You also should brush up on your Constitution reading and see that Americans do in fact have a right to privacy.

 

[Father Time]

He's dead. What else you got?

He's one of the essential Founding Fathers, someone who I assume you mention quite often in your arguments against Obama.

How about these?

"People can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...All you have to do is tell them they're being attacked and denounce the pacifists for a lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." Hermann Goering (Second in command to Hitler)

"Accustomed to trample on the rights of others, you have lost the genius of your own independence and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises among you" Abraham Lincoln (1858)

"Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." John Adams 2nd U.S. President


"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."
Patrick Henry (1736-1739)

"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine (1737-1809)

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences of too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1791)

"History teaches us that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure."
Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall (1989)

"It is during our most challenging and uncertain moments that our Nation's commitment to due process is most severely tested; and it is in those times that we must preserve our commitment at home to the principles for which we fight abroad."
Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor
Hamdi v. Rumsfeld - 2004

1. The US Constitution is NOT a suicide Pact.

The official excuse of anyone who wants to completely ignore it.

2. Monitoring communications is NOT a violation of privacy.

Yes monitoring people's private phone calls and e-mail is a violation of privacy.

3. The Constitution does NOT grant a right to privacy.

Not explicitly but there is the 9th and it forbids the government from searching our things with no reason so I'd say the founders had it in mind.

4. Terrorists are a clear and present danger. There is no reason to worry about "rights" when lives are at risk. (i.e. which is worth more a human life or a phone call?)

Yes how dare you want to keep ahold of your rights you selfish person other people might be hurt.

Give your rights up to the government you will almost never get them back.
Screw you and your tyrannical fear mongering bullshit. The constitution is not something you get to switch off when people want to kill us.

 

[elvis]

He's dead. What else you got?

He's one of the essential Founding Fathers, someone who I assume you mention quite often in your arguments against Obama.

How about these?

"People can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...All you have to do is tell them they're being attacked and denounce the pacifists for a lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." Hermann Goering (Second in command to Hitler)

"Accustomed to trample on the rights of others, you have lost the genius of your own independence and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises among you" Abraham Lincoln (1858)

"Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." John Adams 2nd U.S. President


"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."
Patrick Henry (1736-1739)

"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine (1737-1809)

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences of too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1791)

"History teaches us that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure."
Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall (1989)

"It is during our most challenging and uncertain moments that our Nation's commitment to due process is most severely tested; and it is in those times that we must preserve our commitment at home to the principles for which we fight abroad."
Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor
Hamdi v. Rumsfeld - 2004

how many of these people you're quoting were instrumental in making the constitution say that blacks were only 3/5 of a person?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

He's dead. What else you got?

He's one of the essential Founding Fathers, someone who I assume you mention quite often in your arguments against Obama.

How about these?

"People can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...All you have to do is tell them they're being attacked and denounce the pacifists for a lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." Hermann Goering (Second in command to Hitler)

"Accustomed to trample on the rights of others, you have lost the genius of your own independence and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises among you" Abraham Lincoln (1858)

"Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." John Adams 2nd U.S. President


"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."
Patrick Henry (1736-1739)

"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine (1737-1809)

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences of too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1791)

"History teaches us that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure."
Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall (1989)

"It is during our most challenging and uncertain moments that our Nation's commitment to due process is most severely tested; and it is in those times that we must preserve our commitment at home to the principles for which we fight abroad."
Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor
Hamdi v. Rumsfeld - 2004

how many of these people you're quoting were instrumental in making the constitution say that blacks were only 3/5 of a person?

The phrase ad hominem argument (often called an ad hominem attack) comes from the Latin "at the person". It also sometimes applies to any argument that centres on emotive (specifically irrelevant emotions) rather than rational or logical appeal.[1] It occurs when people who are unable to attack the argument itself resort to attacking the person making it. As such arguments have nothing to do with the topic, they have no weight or validity against the argument. This is the case even if the attack is true; two plus two still equals four even if the first person to point this out was the most morally reprehensible person to have ever lived.

Ad hominem - RationalWiki

 

[elvis]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin.

so if wiretapping keeps osama from detonating a nuke in manhattan, are you still going to go with these franklin quotes?