Another Republican President, Another Recession

[blackhawk]

Right because a Democrat President would have been able to stop a virus getting into the country and spreading. As I recall when Trump announced the China travel ban many Democrats expressed their outrage over it calling it racist and xenophobic. Trump has dealt with this about as well as any President Republican or Democrat could have while we have heard a lot of bitching about Trumps handling of this we have heard little to nothing from his critics on how to deal with it better.

 

[g5000]

and favored a Wild West deregulated financial industry

Banks weren't deregulated.

They most certainly were. See Commodities Futures Modernization Act. See also Financial Services Modernization Act (a.k.a. Gramm-Leach-Bliley).

From section 117 of the CFMA (passed by a GOP Congress, signed into law by a Democratic President):

This Act shall supersede and preempt the application of any State or local law that prohibits or regulates gaming or the operation of bucket shops

Now ask yourself why the CFMA had to have a provision in it which exempted Wall Street from state laws which apply to CASINOS and ILLEGAL BUCKET SHOPS.

And where were the "states rights" hypocrites when this federal pre-exemption was placed in the CFMA by REPUBLICANS?

 

[g5000]

In looking at the political implications of this horror show, one need only recall the 2008 Great Recession. The causes of that financial collapse — e.g., unregulated financial instruments, negligence from ratings companies, lender deception, the Federal Reserve’s failure to act — were complicated. Nevertheless, the politicians who resisted warnings (from then-Harvard professor Elizabeth Warren, among other people) and favored a Wild West deregulated financial industry have unique culpability. And the party in charge at the time — the Republicans — bore the brunt of the voters wrath at the polls. Do we imagine this domestic debacle will play out differently?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/02/another-gop-president-another-recession/

The short answer? No.

It is downright paranormal the way karma has come back to haunt the GOP. This is what happens when you throw every principle you ever had right out the window.

Doubling our deficits to a trillion dollars. BEFORE the present crisis.

A thrice married president who cheated on his third wife with a porn star.

A pathological liar for a president.

A president who is more hated by the world than his predecessors.

A president who tried to get the previous president forcibly removed from office and who called for the one before that to be impeached and forcibly removed from office.

The list goes on and on.

And now he's the Food Stamp President.

 

[blackhawk]

One quick thought before I leave this thread it would be really great if Democrats and Republicans stopped blaming each other for this world wide shit show we find ourselves in and start blaming the one truly responsible China.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

In looking at the political implications of this horror show, one need only recall the 2008 Great Recession. The causes of that financial collapse — e.g., unregulated financial instruments, negligence from ratings companies, lender deception, the Federal Reserve’s failure to act — were complicated. Nevertheless, the politicians who resisted warnings (from then-Harvard professor Elizabeth Warren, among other people) and favored a Wild West deregulated financial industry have unique culpability. And the party in charge at the time — the Republicans — bore the brunt of the voters wrath at the polls. Do we imagine this domestic debacle will play out differently?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/02/another-gop-president-another-recession/

The short answer? No.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

and favored a Wild West deregulated financial industry

Banks weren't deregulated.

They most certainly were. See Commodities Futures Modernization Act. See also Financial Services Modernization Act (a.k.a. Gramm-Leach-Bliley).

From section 117 of the CFMA (passed by a GOP Congress, signed into law by a Democratic President):

This Act shall supersede and preempt the application of any State or local law that prohibits or regulates gaming or the operation of bucket shops

Now ask yourself why the CFMA had to have a provision in it which exempted Wall Street from state laws which apply to CASINOS and ILLEGAL BUCKET SHOPS.

And where were the "states rights" hypocrites when this federal pre-exemption was placed in the CFMA by REPUBLICANS?

See Commodities Futures Modernization Act. See also Financial Services Modernization Act (a.k.a. Gramm-Leach-Bliley).

How many thousands of pages of bank regulations were there before these acts, how many fewer after?

Now ask yourself why the CFMA had to have a provision in it which exempted Wall Street from state laws which apply to CASINOS and ILLEGAL BUCKET SHOPS.

Are OTC derivative transactions between "sophisticated parties" gambling?

 

[JoeB131]

Running up the debt - debt ceiling increases, deficit spending - is something I fault all modern Presidents including Trump. The most obvious thing we need to do is cut spending which is the last thing Liberals want to discuss.

The most obvious thing we need to do is make the rich pay their fair share. And cut the bloated Military-Industrial complex. Problem solved.

The “rich paying their fair share” is a lame, bullshit argument from the Left when they

*can’t define “fair share”,
* ignore the fact the high income earners pay most of the tax bill to begin with,
* Middle Class is necessarily included among the “the rich” in the eyes of the Left
* don’t differentiate between “the rich” and high income earners

We've defined it many times... We should go back to the Tax Rates before Reagan. Even the Clinton Tax rates were probably fine.

So, what is the Democrats plan to get US out of Recession? More hijacking of the healthcare sector? Failed government-funded Climate Change companies? Arbitrary minimum wage increases?

So let's look at that.

Single Payer health care would be a HUGE money saver, as the US currently spends 17% of it's GDP on health care compared to 8-11% spent by the industrialized nations that have single payer or universal coverage.

Investing in energy independence would be a huge money maker, as if we develop the green technologies we will need in the future, we end our dependence on foreign oil (reducing our deficit) and funding to hostile regimes (Reducing our need for bloated military spending).

Increasing the minimum wage would really get us out of a recession. It's why FDR established a minimum wage to start with. Just you watch, when this virus subsides, the companies that laid of 10 million people aren't going to call back the same people they let go at the same wage. They'll start sorting through resumes and see who they can hire cheaper. This is why recessions are so bad for working folks... they knock us all back and it takes us years to recover.

 

[JoeB131]

Hold on!

You are equating the 2008 Recession to what is going on now?

First off a Virus that originated in China that spread World Wide because the Chinese Government did not contain it is what threw our country into this Recession or better yet Depression we are facing!

Funny, China has done a better job at containing this virus than we have. But do go on with the racism, it's always comforting for you.

Also let be clear many have stated this is actually uncharted waters for an Election year, so as you attempt to use the deaths of thousands and China failure and them also crashing the market to believe this is a win for Democrats, well we will see but let be clear many Americans might just disagree with your asinine comparison seeing they have nothing in common except a Republican is President...

Oh, I think when this is all over, when people realized that he put his idiot son-in-law in charge of the response, when they realize he disbanded the Pandemic Response Team, when they find out he tried to withhold resources to placed that needed it to prop up states he wants to win in November, people will turn on him. In fact, they already are. When the virus is done and people are feeling the economic after effects of lost wages and lost jobs, they'll look to take it out on someone.

Bush-41 had little to do with the economic collapse in 1990 and by 1992, things were actually starting to get better. People STILL voted him out of office.

Remember Democrats controlled the Senate and House in 2008, so ummm let see the only thing the Republicans controlled then was the Oval Office.

Oh, before you scream " liar ", Nancy Pelosi was Speaker of the House in 2008 and Harry Reid was Senate Majority Leader and they took their positions in 2007, so remember that when selling your bullshit!

Okay, the problem with this was 1) The crisis didn't start in 2007, the problems probably go back to the previous recession, when the housing boom was started and then peaked and 2) Bush was in charge of all the agencies that were supposed to be watching the banks to make sure they didn't do exactly what they did.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Running up the debt - debt ceiling increases, deficit spending - is something I fault all modern Presidents including Trump. The most obvious thing we need to do is cut spending which is the last thing Liberals want to discuss.

The most obvious thing we need to do is make the rich pay their fair share. And cut the bloated Military-Industrial complex. Problem solved.

The “rich paying their fair share” is a lame, bullshit argument from the Left when they

*can’t define “fair share”,
* ignore the fact the high income earners pay most of the tax bill to begin with,
* Middle Class is necessarily included among the “the rich” in the eyes of the Left
* don’t differentiate between “the rich” and high income earners

We've defined it many times... We should go back to the Tax Rates before Reagan. Even the Clinton Tax rates were probably fine.

So, what is the Democrats plan to get US out of Recession? More hijacking of the healthcare sector? Failed government-funded Climate Change companies? Arbitrary minimum wage increases?

So let's look at that.

Single Payer health care would be a HUGE money saver, as the US currently spends 17% of it's GDP on health care compared to 8-11% spent by the industrialized nations that have single payer or universal coverage.

Investing in energy independence would be a huge money maker, as if we develop the green technologies we will need in the future, we end our dependence on foreign oil (reducing our deficit) and funding to hostile regimes (Reducing our need for bloated military spending).

Increasing the minimum wage would really get us out of a recession. It's why FDR established a minimum wage to start with. Just you watch, when this virus subsides, the companies that laid of 10 million people aren't going to call back the same people they let go at the same wage. They'll start sorting through resumes and see who they can hire cheaper. This is why recessions are so bad for working folks... they knock us all back and it takes us years to recover.

I am all for investing in green or alternative technologies but not at the expense of compromising the current economy because it is oil-driven and simply because the Left hates oil so much they are willing to go with immature or under developed alternative energy that scales for a smoothe transition from oil.

 

[JoeB131]

I am all for investing in green or alternative technologies but not at the expense of compromising the current economy because it is oil-driven and simply because the Left hates oil so much they are willing to go with immature or under developed alternative energy that scales for a smoothe transition from oil.

Okay, I'm going to try to treat you seriously on this one.

When are we going to do this "smooth transition", exactly. We've known we've had a problem with our dependence on oil since the first Oil Shock of 1974. When I was 12. I'm 58 now.

The money we have spent playing Hall Monitor in the Middle East could have funded alternative energies a hundred times over. We've ended up creating enemies over there, and funding them with our oil dollars.

So you have to ask yourself WHY we haven't made this "smooth transition". In fact, if anything, we keep backsliding. Ronald Reagan proved he was Big Oil's ***** when he tore the solar panels off the White House.

 

[LeftofLeft]

I am all for investing in green or alternative technologies but not at the expense of compromising the current economy because it is oil-driven and simply because the Left hates oil so much they are willing to go with immature or under developed alternative energy that scales for a smoothe transition from oil.

Okay, I'm going to try to treat you seriously on this one.

When are we going to do this "smooth transition", exactly. We've known we've had a problem with our dependence on oil since the first Oil Shock of 1974. When I was 12. I'm 58 now.

The money we have spent playing Hall Monitor in the Middle East could have funded alternative energies a hundred times over. We've ended up creating enemies over there, and funding them with our oil dollars.

So you have to ask yourself WHY we haven't made this "smooth transition". In fact, if anything, we keep backsliding. Ronald Reagan proved he was Big Oil's ***** when he tore the solar panels off the White House.

Seriously, it will never be perfect from s transition standpoint but what most of the Left pushes for these days is an immediate withdrawal from oil over to unproven alternative energy. To accelerate that process for a more smoother transition, Big Oil and startups alike need to be incentivized to pursue alternative energy..... but that means tax incentives which, along with oil, is something else the Left does not like. I could care less if a strong US economy runs on oil, air, or water.

 

[JoeB131]

Seriously, it will never be perfect from s transition standpoint but what most of the Left pushes for these days is an immediate withdrawal from oil over to unproven alternative energy. To accelerate that process for a more smoother transition, Big Oil and startups alike need to be incentivized to pursue alternative energy..... but that means tax incentives which, along with oil, is something else the Left does not like. I could care less if a strong US economy runs on oil, air, or water.

Actually, no. We've been giving Big Oil Tax Breaks for years, and they keep ******* us.

AGAIN IT'S BEEN FORTY SIX ******* YEARS SINCE THE FIRST OIL SHOCK!!!!!! Big Oil and the private sector aren't going to step up to the bat, so we need government to do it.

We need to treat big oil like the criminals they are....

 

[LeftofLeft]

Seriously, it will never be perfect from s transition standpoint but what most of the Left pushes for these days is an immediate withdrawal from oil over to unproven alternative energy. To accelerate that process for a more smoother transition, Big Oil and startups alike need to be incentivized to pursue alternative energy..... but that means tax incentives which, along with oil, is something else the Left does not like. I could care less if a strong US economy runs on oil, air, or water.

Actually, no. We've been giving Big Oil Tax Breaks for years, and they keep ******* us.

AGAIN IT'S BEEN FORTY SIX ******* YEARS SINCE THE FIRST OIL SHOCK!!!!!! Big Oil and the private sector aren't going to step up to the bat, so we need government to do it.

We need to treat big oil like the criminals they are....

You think you are going to stick it to Big Oil and that is going to have a positive effect when in reality, you will be sticking it to the consumers. OK, since you can’t get past your blind fury hatred of Oil, then we shift focus to innovation in startups; but, let’s not use alternative energy startups as simply clearing houses to payoff cronies (SEE Solyndra).

 

[Harry Dresden]

This is an idiotic thread, that only a super partisan dickhead would start.
The idea, that this horror of a recession/depression that we will be entering, can be blamed on the fact that a certain political party is in the WH is astoundingly ignorant.
This is like blaming Jack and Rose for hitting the iceberg.

skews is a super partisan dickhead?....how can you tell?.....

 

[JoeB131]

You think you are going to stick it to Big Oil and that is going to have a positive effect when in reality, you will be sticking it to the consumers. OK, since you can’t get past your blind fury hatred of Oil, then we shift focus to innovation in startups; but, let’s not use alternative energy startups as simply clearing houses to payoff cronies (SEE Solyndra).

Do you know what scared the absolute shit out of big Oil in the 1979 Oil Shock? That people OPENLY talked about nationalizing the oil companies.

Yes, the ONLY way we are going to get off our addiction to big oil is to stop letting big oil have any say in the matter.

It's like asking your drug pusher to help in your recovery program.

 

[The Banker]

and favored a Wild West deregulated financial industry

Banks weren't deregulated.

They most certainly were. See Commodities Futures Modernization Act. See also Financial Services Modernization Act (a.k.a. Gramm-Leach-Bliley).

From section 117 of the CFMA (passed by a GOP Congress, signed into law by a Democratic President):

This Act shall supersede and preempt the application of any State or local law that prohibits or regulates gaming or the operation of bucket shops

Now ask yourself why the CFMA had to have a provision in it which exempted Wall Street from state laws which apply to CASINOS and ILLEGAL BUCKET SHOPS.

And where were the "states rights" hypocrites when this federal pre-exemption was placed in the CFMA by REPUBLICANS?

See Commodities Futures Modernization Act. See also Financial Services Modernization Act (a.k.a. Gramm-Leach-Bliley).

How many thousands of pages of bank regulations were there before these acts, how many fewer after?

Now ask yourself why the CFMA had to have a provision in it which exempted Wall Street from state laws which apply to CASINOS and ILLEGAL BUCKET SHOPS.

Are OTC derivative transactions between "sophisticated parties" gambling?

My Son!

Getting crushed again, like always. You suck at this. You always pick the wrong side of every issue, and get smoked, and can never admit defeat! Banks weren't deregulated??? you are too stupid for words, and don't worry I'm not getting involved in this easy softball debate, g500 can easily take care of you...

Again you have dug yourself into a hole.. why do you challenge people that are your intellectual superior and embarass yourself all the time. You do this like 5 times a week. You're a punching bag.

Just wondering, are you ready to admit that Warren buffet pays a lower tax rate than his secretary? Even Nostra tapped out on that one and admitted it, although he couldn't admit that other millionaire/billionaires pay lower tax rates than low income people, implying that Buffet was the only one in the entire US...

 

[Harry Dresden]

In looking at the political implications of this horror show, one need only recall the 2008 Great Recession. The causes of that financial collapse — e.g., unregulated financial instruments, negligence from ratings companies, lender deception, the Federal Reserve’s failure to act — were complicated. Nevertheless, the politicians who resisted warnings (from then-Harvard professor Elizabeth Warren, among other people) and favored a Wild West deregulated financial industry have unique culpability. And the party in charge at the time — the Republicans — bore the brunt of the voters wrath at the polls. Do we imagine this domestic debacle will play out differently?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/02/another-gop-president-another-recession/

The short answer? No.

Dopey Donald Trump is setting himself up to be the biggest debt amassing POTUS ever. He will accumulate more debt in one term than Obama did in two terms.

The budget deficit for 2020 is likely to be $ 8+ trillion on top of $ 3 trillion Trump previously accumulated since 2017.

This is like blaming the 2001 New York City budget deficit on the New York City director of public works for clean up of the destroyed WTC buildings.

In fact, just to show our fellow board members here just how stupid you are, your side of the aisle are the ones wanting Trump to spend even more money helping Americans through this crisis.

denizan being called stupid again?....that happens in every thread he is in.....even jitts aint that bad.....

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Running up the debt - debt ceiling increases, deficit spending - is something I fault all modern Presidents including Trump. The most obvious thing we need to do is cut spending which is the last thing Liberals want to discuss.

The most obvious thing we need to do is make the rich pay their fair share. And cut the bloated Military-Industrial complex. Problem solved.

The “rich paying their fair share” is a lame, bullshit argument from the Left when they

*can’t define “fair share”,
* ignore the fact the high income earners pay most of the tax bill to begin with,
* Middle Class is necessarily included among the “the rich” in the eyes of the Left
* don’t differentiate between “the rich” and high income earners

We've defined it many times... We should go back to the Tax Rates before Reagan. Even the Clinton Tax rates were probably fine.

So, what is the Democrats plan to get US out of Recession? More hijacking of the healthcare sector? Failed government-funded Climate Change companies? Arbitrary minimum wage increases?

So let's look at that.

Single Payer health care would be a HUGE money saver, as the US currently spends 17% of it's GDP on health care compared to 8-11% spent by the industrialized nations that have single payer or universal coverage.

Investing in energy independence would be a huge money maker, as if we develop the green technologies we will need in the future, we end our dependence on foreign oil (reducing our deficit) and funding to hostile regimes (Reducing our need for bloated military spending).

Increasing the minimum wage would really get us out of a recession. It's why FDR established a minimum wage to start with. Just you watch, when this virus subsides, the companies that laid of 10 million people aren't going to call back the same people they let go at the same wage. They'll start sorting through resumes and see who they can hire cheaper. This is why recessions are so bad for working folks... they knock us all back and it takes us years to recover.

Single Payer health care would be a HUGE money saver, as the US currently spends 17% of it's GDP on health care compared to 8-11% spent by the industrialized nations that have single payer or universal coverage.

That is an excellent idea!
How long would the waiting lists be and how severe the rationing to reduce healthcare spending by 8% of GDP?

Investing in energy independence would be a huge money maker,

I agree, fracking is awesome!

if we develop the green technologies we will need in the future

Private firms should definitely do that.

we end our dependence on foreign oil (reducing our deficit) and funding to hostile regimes

Which hostile regimes are we funding with our oil purchases? Link?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Hold on!

You are equating the 2008 Recession to what is going on now?

First off a Virus that originated in China that spread World Wide because the Chinese Government did not contain it is what threw our country into this Recession or better yet Depression we are facing!

Funny, China has done a better job at containing this virus than we have. But do go on with the racism, it's always comforting for you.

Also let be clear many have stated this is actually uncharted waters for an Election year, so as you attempt to use the deaths of thousands and China failure and them also crashing the market to believe this is a win for Democrats, well we will see but let be clear many Americans might just disagree with your asinine comparison seeing they have nothing in common except a Republican is President...

Oh, I think when this is all over, when people realized that he put his idiot son-in-law in charge of the response, when they realize he disbanded the Pandemic Response Team, when they find out he tried to withhold resources to placed that needed it to prop up states he wants to win in November, people will turn on him. In fact, they already are. When the virus is done and people are feeling the economic after effects of lost wages and lost jobs, they'll look to take it out on someone.

Bush-41 had little to do with the economic collapse in 1990 and by 1992, things were actually starting to get better. People STILL voted him out of office.

Remember Democrats controlled the Senate and House in 2008, so ummm let see the only thing the Republicans controlled then was the Oval Office.

Oh, before you scream " liar ", Nancy Pelosi was Speaker of the House in 2008 and Harry Reid was Senate Majority Leader and they took their positions in 2007, so remember that when selling your bullshit!

Okay, the problem with this was 1) The crisis didn't start in 2007, the problems probably go back to the previous recession, when the housing boom was started and then peaked and 2) Bush was in charge of all the agencies that were supposed to be watching the banks to make sure they didn't do exactly what they did.

Funny, China has done a better job at containing this virus than we have.

You're not very bright, are you?

Bush-41 had little to do with the economic collapse in 1990 and by 1992, things were actually starting to get better.

Starting?

Real Gross Domestic Product

View the annual rate of economic output, or the inflation-adjusted value of all new goods and services produced by labor and property located in the U.S.

fred.stlouisfed.org

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I am all for investing in green or alternative technologies but not at the expense of compromising the current economy because it is oil-driven and simply because the Left hates oil so much they are willing to go with immature or under developed alternative energy that scales for a smoothe transition from oil.

Okay, I'm going to try to treat you seriously on this one.

When are we going to do this "smooth transition", exactly. We've known we've had a problem with our dependence on oil since the first Oil Shock of 1974. When I was 12. I'm 58 now.

The money we have spent playing Hall Monitor in the Middle East could have funded alternative energies a hundred times over. We've ended up creating enemies over there, and funding them with our oil dollars.

So you have to ask yourself WHY we haven't made this "smooth transition". In fact, if anything, we keep backsliding. Ronald Reagan proved he was Big Oil's ***** when he tore the solar panels off the White House.

he tore the solar panels off the White House.

Carter was such a ****.