Annexing West Bank

[P F Tinmore]

Nationality is hereditary.

Absolutely untrue. Nationality is determined by the laws of the nation offering nationality and citizenship and governed solely by that nation.

Not so. Nationality is determined by international law. citizenship is determined by domestic law but must conform with international law.

Show me the international law which says that nationality is hereditary. As opposed to determined by the domestic laws of each individual State.

In international law the people are "married" to the land. The people cannot be removed from their land, i.e. ethnic cleansing. The land cannot be removed from the people, i.e. conquest.

Both are illegal.

In that case Shusha has a valid point, what about the Jews expelled and displaced by Arabs in 1948?

Which Arabs?

 

[Foxfyre]

Absolutely untrue. Nationality is determined by the laws of the nation offering nationality and citizenship and governed solely by that nation.

Not so. Nationality is determined by international law. citizenship is determined by domestic law but must conform with international law.

Show me the international law which says that nationality is hereditary. As opposed to determined by the domestic laws of each individual State.

In international law the people are "married" to the land. The people cannot be removed from their land, i.e. ethnic cleansing. The land cannot be removed from the people, i.e. conquest.

Both are illegal.

In that case Shusha has a valid point, what about the Jews expelled and displaced by Arabs in 1948?

Which Arabs?

Between 1920 and 1970, 900,000 Jews were expelled from Arab and other Muslim countries: from Morocco to Iran, from Turkey to Yemen, including places where they had lived for twenty centuries.

 

[Coyote]

Absolutely untrue. Nationality is determined by the laws of the nation offering nationality and citizenship and governed solely by that nation.

Not so. Nationality is determined by international law. citizenship is determined by domestic law but must conform with international law.

Show me the international law which says that nationality is hereditary. As opposed to determined by the domestic laws of each individual State.

In international law the people are "married" to the land. The people cannot be removed from their land, i.e. ethnic cleansing. The land cannot be removed from the people, i.e. conquest.

Both are illegal.

In that case Shusha has a valid point, what about the Jews expelled and displaced by Arabs in 1948?

Which Arabs?

The ones that drove out the Jews.

 

[Coyote]

Not so. Nationality is determined by international law. citizenship is determined by domestic law but must conform with international law.

Show me the international law which says that nationality is hereditary. As opposed to determined by the domestic laws of each individual State.

In international law the people are "married" to the land. The people cannot be removed from their land, i.e. ethnic cleansing. The land cannot be removed from the people, i.e. conquest.

Both are illegal.

In that case Shusha has a valid point, what about the Jews expelled and displaced by Arabs in 1948?

Which Arabs?

Between 1920 and 1970, 900,000 Jews were expelled from Arab and other Muslim countries: from Morocco to Iran, from Turkey to Yemen, including places where they had lived for twenty centuries.

And over 711,000 Palestinians were expelled and another 40,000 internally discplaced in refugee camps.

 

[Shusha]

Your bias precedes your understanding. There are no arab Israeli settlements because only Jews are allowed to build there.

There are no Arab settlements because when Arabs do build there, they are not called settlements. But we've solved that definition problem now.

 

[Coyote]

Your bias precedes your understanding. There are no arab Israeli settlements because only Jews are allowed to build there.

There are no Arab settlements because when Arabs do build there, they are not called settlements. But we've solved that definition problem now.

No we have not. How many Israeli Arabs have been allowed to build in Area C?

Are you going to keep dodging?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Not so. Nationality is determined by international law. citizenship is determined by domestic law but must conform with international law.

Show me the international law which says that nationality is hereditary. As opposed to determined by the domestic laws of each individual State.

In international law the people are "married" to the land. The people cannot be removed from their land, i.e. ethnic cleansing. The land cannot be removed from the people, i.e. conquest.

Both are illegal.

In that case Shusha has a valid point, what about the Jews expelled and displaced by Arabs in 1948?

Which Arabs?

The ones that drove out the Jews.

Do you mean Jordan not the Palestinians?

 

[Foxfyre]

.

When did Jordan get back right to it’s West Bank that it lost in war?

When did Jordan EVER have rights to the West Bank? Oh, yeah. Never.

I guess not. It was supposed be an Arab state from the partition.


West Bank - Wikipedia
In 1947, it was subsequently designated as part of a proposed Arab state by the United Nations (UN) partition plan for Palestine. The resolution recommended partition of the British Mandate into a Jewish State, an Arab State, and an internationally administered enclave of Jerusalem;[16] a broader region of the modern-day West Bank was assigned to the Arab State. The resolution designated the territory described as "the hill country of Samaria and Judea" (including what is now also known as the "West Bank") as part of the proposed Arab state, but following the 1948 Arab–Israeli War this area was captured by Transjordan (renamed Jordan two years after independence in 1946).

You seem to have a total lack of understanding that the Arabs, were not interested in a Arab State and a Jewish State. They were and still are, ONLY interested in ONE Arab State, where there are or (as they would prefer) there are no Jews at all, as we have with Jordan and Gaza right now.

The PA has made it very clear, that there will be no Jews living in the State of Palestine, showing a map which includes ALL of Israel.

Now, if there are NO new Arab settlements in Area C, can you understand why?

Your bias precedes your understanding. There are no arab Israeli settlements because only Jews are allowed to build there.

There have been Arab-Israelis there all along. And two years ago the green light was given for additional Arab construction.

https://www.israpundit.org/israel-agrees-to-arab-construction-in-area-c/

 

[Foxfyre]

Show me the international law which says that nationality is hereditary. As opposed to determined by the domestic laws of each individual State.

In international law the people are "married" to the land. The people cannot be removed from their land, i.e. ethnic cleansing. The land cannot be removed from the people, i.e. conquest.

Both are illegal.

In that case Shusha has a valid point, what about the Jews expelled and displaced by Arabs in 1948?

Which Arabs?

Between 1920 and 1970, 900,000 Jews were expelled from Arab and other Muslim countries: from Morocco to Iran, from Turkey to Yemen, including places where they had lived for twenty centuries.

And over 711,000 Palestinians were expelled and another 40,000 internally discplaced in refugee camps.

Only after the Arab attempt to exterminate Israel which Israel has successfully fought off several times now. Those Palestinians who stood with Israel and their progeny remain in Israel with full citizenship status even now and they make up roughly 21% of the Israeli population and enjoy representation on the Knesset. There could be an exception, but I don't think you can find an Arab country or Islamic majority country anywhere in the world that allows Jews into their leadership.

Among those who wanted the Israelis exterminated and/or driven from the land, most fled expecting to return to a Jew free Palestine. The rest got the boot. And they haven't been allowed to return.

I simply can't find a problem with Israel's position on that.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Foxfyre
Palestinians who stood with Israel and their progeny remain in Israel.

Among those who wanted the Israelis exterminated and/or driven from the land, most fled expecting to return to a Jew free Palestine. The rest got the boot.

The 150.000 Palestinians who escaped ethnic cleasing by the IDF, Irgun and other jewish paramilitary groups were the ones who longed to be pratriotic israeli citizens.

The 750.000 who got the boot were the ones who wanted to carry out a second Holocaust.

You can clearly see in Foxfyre's words the idealization of the jewish people tipical among westerners who like Rocco, Dogmaphobe, Coyote had their formative years in the second half of the last century.

It's impossible to conceive that the benevolent, angelical creatures who were always harmed by Gentiles and never harmed anyone...

It's inconceivable that these beings of light could even for a moment abandon their historical role of dehumanized and become dehumanizers.

If the "good" Palestinians were allowed to stay and the "bad" ones were driven out, no one can "find a problem with Israel's position on that."

"Justice" was served and the moral status of the "super victims of human history" was not tarnished.

 

[José]

The most frightening thing of all is the fact that the lady is not trolling anyone.

She's dead serious, expressing what she really thinks.

She really believes everything she said.

 

[admonit]

Show me the international law which says that nationality is hereditary. As opposed to determined by the domestic laws of each individual State.

In international law the people are "married" to the land. The people cannot be removed from their land, i.e. ethnic cleansing. The land cannot be removed from the people, i.e. conquest.

Both are illegal.

In that case Shusha has a valid point, what about the Jews expelled and displaced by Arabs in 1948?

Which Arabs?

Between 1920 and 1970, 900,000 Jews were expelled from Arab and other Muslim countries: from Morocco to Iran, from Turkey to Yemen, including places where they had lived for twenty centuries.

And over 711,000 Palestinians were expelled and another 40,000 internally discplaced in refugee camps.

The Palestinian Arabs were expelled as an enemy population, that took active part in the war against Israel.
Arab countries forced the Jews to leave only because they were Jews.

 

[admonit]

Your bias precedes your understanding. There are no arab Israeli settlements because only Jews are allowed to build there.

There are no Arab settlements because when Arabs do build there, they are not called settlements. But we've solved that definition problem now.

How many Israeli Arabs have been allowed to build in Area C?

Did the Israeli Arabs ever wanted to settle there? Did they ever complain over such "discrimination"?

 

[admonit]

.

When did Jordan get back right to it’s West Bank that it lost in war?

When did Jordan EVER have rights to the West Bank? Oh, yeah. Never.

I guess not. It was supposed be an Arab state from the partition.


West Bank - Wikipedia
In 1947, it was subsequently designated as part of a proposed Arab state by the United Nations (UN) partition plan for Palestine. The resolution recommended partition of the British Mandate into a Jewish State, an Arab State, and an internationally administered enclave of Jerusalem;[16] a broader region of the modern-day West Bank was assigned to the Arab State. The resolution designated the territory described as "the hill country of Samaria and Judea" (including what is now also known as the "West Bank") as part of the proposed Arab state, but following the 1948 Arab–Israeli War this area was captured by Transjordan (renamed Jordan two years after independence in 1946).

You seem to have a total lack of understanding that the Arabs, were not interested in a Arab State and a Jewish State. They were and still are, ONLY interested in ONE Arab State, where there are or (as they would prefer) there are no Jews at all, as we have with Jordan and Gaza right now.

The PA has made it very clear, that there will be no Jews living in the State of Palestine, showing a map which includes ALL of Israel.

Now, if there are NO new Arab settlements in Area C, can you understand why?

Your bias precedes your understanding.

It is natural and understandable that some Jewish posters are partial to Israel. The question is why you are obsessive about the Jewish state and biased toward it..

 

[José]

Originally posted by admonit
The Palestinian Arabs were expelled as an enemy population, that took active part in the war against Israel.

Now, with admonit's contribution, we have real progress here.

There was only one way Foxfyre's idea could be correct:

Let's imagine...

In february, 1948, the IDF, after encircling and occupying an arab village, conducted detailed, lengthy interrogations with each and every inhabitant of the village to find out if they wanted to harm Jews or not, expelled the ones who did and left the rest alone.

There's no way in hell Foxfyre's idea could be correct without this kind of screening by the IDF, aka, Haganah, Irgun, Lehi, etc...

So admonit thought to himself:

"Foxfyre's idea is too absurd, too crazy even for a commited israeli zionist such as myself."

So he put forth a new theory that regardless of being right or wrong, at least does not rape basic common sense:

Israeli politicians labelled the arab population of Israel "an enemy population, that took active part in the war against Israel" and expelled part of the 750.000 refugees, frightening the rest into leaving their homes and forbid them all to return.

 

[José]

Right or wrong, no one can deny the fact that admonit presented a version that at least resembles real History, compared to Foxfyre's zionist fairy tale.

 

[admonit]

Originally posted by admonit
The Palestinian Arabs were expelled as an enemy population, that took active part in the war against Israel.

Let's imagine...

So admonit thought to himself:

Do you really think, that your conversation with yourself is interesting to anybody?

Israeli politicians labelled the arab population of Israel "an enemy population, that took active part in the war against Israel" and expelled part of the 750.000 refugees, frightening the rest into leaving their homes and forbid them all to return.

The Palestinian Arabs labeled themselves an enemy population, starting a civil war against Jews in Mandatory Palestine.
There were expelled Arabs and there were refugees, fleeing the war. Nobody knows exact numbers. It was a war, started by Arabs, including the Palestinian Arabs, and they and only they are responsible for the consequences of the war.

 

[Foxfyre]

Your bias precedes your understanding. There are no arab Israeli settlements because only Jews are allowed to build there.

There are no Arab settlements because when Arabs do build there, they are not called settlements. But we've solved that definition problem now.

How many Israeli Arabs have been allowed to build in Area C?

Did the Israeli Arabs ever wanted to settle there? Did they ever complain over such "discrimination"?

Israeli Arabs are already there. And there are no restrictions for other Israeli Arabs to do so. It is true that the Israelis do not allow non Israeli people to establish settlements on their land any more than pretty much any country would allow non-citizens to just move in and establish settlements.

 

[José]

Originally posted by admonit
Do you really think, that your conversation with yourself is interesting to anybody?

If the words I put in your mouth are not true, you missed an excellent opportunity to support Foxfyre's point of view in your two previous posts.

The most probable reason you still haven't said a word in defence of the idea according to which arabs who were hostile to Israel became refugees and the ones who accepted the state became israeli citizens is that you consider this "explanation" to be what it really is:

Sheer lunacy... nothing more than drug-induced zionist hallucination.

 

[José]

Originally posted by admonit
The Palestinian Arabs labeled themselves an enemy population, starting a civil war against Jews in Mandatory Palestine.
There were expelled Arabs and there were refugees, fleeing the war. Nobody knows exact numbers. It was a war, started by Arabs, including the Palestinian Arabs, and they and only they are responsible for the consequences of the war.

Glad to see you agree with me that personal opinions about Jews and Israel had nothing to do with who became israeli citizen or palestinian refugee.

No more than 5000 palestinians took active part in the war against Israel, so you have 745.000 palestinians directly expelled or frightened to flee who never raised a finger against the state.

The common denominator of all palestinian refugees was not their personal opinion on Jews and Israel, which was never researched by Israel or the IDF, and it wasn't any "active part in the war against Israel" either since less than 1% of them fought the jewish state.

The common denominator of all palestinian refugees was their ethnicity...

It was the fact they were arabs... the "unofficial", "undesired" ethnic group of the state.

It was the fact that their mere existence posed a demographic threat to Israel...

The fact that they stood in the way of a "comfortable" jewish majority.