Animal Rights, Yes or No

Orange_Juice · Jul 31, 2008

How would you vote on this measure?

In a world in which animal rights are gaining ground, barbecue season should make me feel guilty. My hunch is that in a century or two, our descendants will look back on our factory farms with uncomprehending revulsion. But in the meantime, I love a good burger.

This comes up because the most important election this November that youve never heard of is a referendum on animal rights in California, the vanguard state for social movements. Proposition 2 would ban factory farms from raising chickens, calves or hogs in small pens or cages.

Livestock rights are already enshrined in the law in Florida, Arizona, Colorado and here in Oregon, but Californias referendum would go further and would be a major gain for the animal rights movement. And its part of a broader trend. Burger King announced last year that it would give preference to suppliers that treat animals better, and when a hamburger empire expostulates tenderly about the living conditions of cattle, you know public attitudes are changing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/opinion/31kristof.html?th&emc=th

DiamondDave · Jul 31, 2008

Put it to a vote from the animals... oh wait... THEY HAVE NO CONSCIOUS THOUGHT..

Animals have no inherent 'rights'

As a matter of fact... I would probably like to see the animal rights nazis raised in pens or cages and turned into soylent green or livestock feed

Orange_Juice · Jul 31, 2008

DiamondDave said:
Put it to a vote from the animals... oh wait... THEY HAVE NO CONSCIOUS THOUGHT..

Animals have no inherent 'rights'

As a matter of fact... I would probably like to see the animal rights nazis raised in pens or cages and turned into soylent green or livestock feed

Fair enough

manifold · Jul 31, 2008

Animal rights, just like human rights, are whatever WE say they are. The only difference being that a herd of animals denied rights is far less likely to misbehave than a herd of people.

Orange_Juice · Jul 31, 2008

From the same op-ed:

Then there were the geese, the most admirable creatures Ive ever met. We raised Chinese white geese, a common breed, and they have distinctive personalities. They mate for life and adhere to family values that would shame most of those who dine on them.

While one of our geese was sitting on her eggs, her gander would go out foraging for food and if he found some delicacy, he would rush back to give it to his mate. Sometimes I would offer males a dish of corn to fatten them up but it was impossible, for they would take it all home to their true loves.

Once a month or so, we would slaughter the geese. When I was 10 years old, my job was to lock the geese in the barn and then rush and grab one. Then I would take it out and hold it by its wings on the chopping block while my Dad or someone else swung the ax.

The 150 geese knew that something dreadful was happening and would cower in a far corner of the barn, and run away in terror as I approached. Then I would grab one and carry it away as it screeched and struggled in my arms.

Very often, one goose would bravely step away from the panicked flock and walk tremulously toward me. It would be the mate of the one I had caught, male or female, and it would step right up to me, protesting pitifully. It would be frightened out of its wits, but still determined to stand with and comfort its lover.

RetiredGySgt · Jul 31, 2008

It is our responsibility to treat animals as kindly as is possible, within the confines of what their purpose is. They have NO rights, hell people barely have rights.

editec · Jul 31, 2008

RetiredGySgt said:
It is our responsibility to treat animals as kindly as is possible, within the confines of what their purpose is.

Yes!

Ravi · Jul 31, 2008

RetiredGySgt said:
It is our responsibility to treat animals as kindly as is possible, within the confines of what their purpose is. They have NO rights, hell people barely have rights.

Yep. I look forward to the day when they grow meat in the lab. It shouldn't be too much longer.

DiamondDave · Jul 31, 2008

Ravi said:
Yep. I look forward to the day when they grow meat in the lab. It shouldn't be too much longer.

Nah... I want the real thing

Ravi · Jul 31, 2008

DiamondDave said:
Nah... I want the real thing

Supposedly it will be the real thing. Cloned steaks, kind of...

stivex · Jul 31, 2008

RetiredGySgt said:
It is our responsibility to treat animals as kindly as is possible, within the confines of what their purpose is. They have NO rights, hell people barely have rights.

Well said. The purpose for many of these animals is, after all, food.

DiamondDave · Jul 31, 2008

Ravi said:
Supposedly it will be the real thing. Cloned steaks, kind of...

Unless it was born, ate, shit, walked, mood or clucked or whatever... it is not the real thing

I don't want a Xerox of a Xerox

Ravi · Jul 31, 2008

DiamondDave said:
Unless it was born, ate, shit, walked, mood or clucked or whatever... it is not the real thing

I don't want a Xerox of a Xerox

Well, basically what you are eating now is corn, so this might actually be an improvement.

DiamondDave · Jul 31, 2008

Ravi said:
Well, basically what you are eating now is corn, so this might actually be an improvement.

But I like it...

And as long as I have freedom (as long as uber-leftists don't take it away) I will stick with the real thing... and when I don't have the freedom, it will be time to fight to get it back

Ravi · Jul 31, 2008

DiamondDave said:
But I like it...

And as long as I have freedom (as long as uber-leftists don't take it away) I will stick with the real thing... and when I don't have the freedom, it will be time to fight to get it back

I doubt anyone will stop you from raising your own.

Bern80 · Jul 31, 2008

Ravi said:
Well, basically what you are eating now is corn, so this might actually be an improvement.

Assuming all you eat for meat is livestock.....

manifold · Jul 31, 2008

Ravi said:
I doubt anyone will stop you from raising your own.

Ain't that the truth.

But here's the irony from where I'm sitting.

This ban in no way prohibits anyone from eating fast food. You see this clearly, yet Soggy does not. On the other hand, filtering porn from library computers ALSO in no way prohibits anyone from enjoying pornography. Soggy sees this clearly, yet you do not. If only I could figure out why, I'd be a pretty smart guy. :lol:

Ravi · Jul 31, 2008

manifold said:
Ain't that the truth.

But here's the irony from where I'm sitting.

This ban in no way prohibits anyone from eating fast food. You see this clearly, yet Soggy does not. On the other hand, filtering porn from library computers ALSO in no way prohibits anyone from enjoying pornography. Soggy sees this clearly, yet you do not. If only I could figure out why, I'd be a pretty smart guy.

Methinks you posted in the wrong thread.

I actually don't care if they filter porn at the library. The problem lies in the definition of porn and the government censoring the media.

DiamondDave · Jul 31, 2008

Ravi said:
I doubt anyone will stop you from raising your own.

The animal rights nazis will continue to try

Ravi · Jul 31, 2008

DiamondDave said:
The animal rights nazis will continue to try

Well, I'll help you fight that battle.

Animal Rights, Yes or No

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So what's the point?

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