Anger at Israeli brutality grows

Well we face a terminology difficulty here, the phrase "dismantling of the state entirely" is pretty vague. So are you asking if the entity the state of Israel should vanish, its borders be erased etc then that's certainly an option, it is what could have been but for the British.

But less dramatic is the impostion of sanctions as the enforcement of UN resolutions regarding the occupation. Israel could start with that but it will not nor will most Israelis support that either.

Israeli society itself is broken, Hajo Meyer has talked about this as have other notable Jews. Meyer said that Israeli society is brainwashed and see Palestinians as second class citizens, they approve of treating them differently, Palestinians are perceived as a potential existential threat to Jews and as long as that attitude persists nothing can improve.

Then call them false statement not an emotive term intended to suggest that claims are antisemtic.

Not at all, it is something that can be justified, I'll take this opportunity to do that here:

1a. Nazis believed Aryans were in some way superior to Jews.
1b. Many Israels believe Jews are in some way superior to Arabs.
2a. Zionism is predicated on Jews having a divine right to territory in Palestine.
2b. Nazis believed that Germany had a right to expand its borders for its people.
3a. Nazis used a national tragedy to justify their policies - the Versaiiles treaty.
3b. Zionists use a national tragedy to justify their policies - the Holocaust.
4a. Nazis believed that Jews were a dire threat to Germans, an enemy waiting to take over.
4b. Zionists believe that Arabs are a dire threat to Jews, an enemy seeking to take over.

I could go on, you get the picture, these are defensible claims and the similarity justifies my comparison I think.


It's a label, a term describing the state of Israel, a term defining it by the nature of the ideology that formed it. Zionism was a nationalist political movement even before WW1. We had the World Zionist Organization, Workers of Zion, Revisionist Zionsim and more.

So the primary political forces that produced the eventual state of Israel all used the term "Zion" it is indelibly stamped on the political forces that gave rise to the state and which still heavily influence the state.

But there's more to my use of the term, the meaning that you deny exists is simple, it is what has that political ideology, the various factions and forces over the past 100 years, what effects has it produced? Zionist Israel is a label that represents the nature of the political and societal system, the effects it has had on non-Jews, these effects are part of the "meaning" of the term Zionist Israel.

It's disingenuous to attempt to deny the term has validity, again it strikes me as an effort to distort reality.

No, I don't think I can agree to that. Would it be wrong to have referred to Germany as Nazi Germany in the 1930s? or Communist USSR in the 1920s? Why do you seek to airbrush out the fact that ideological beliefs called "Zionism" BY JEWS 100 years ago are so named? Why drop the term?

Calling the Nazis Nazis wasn't demonizing Germans was it? Calling apartheid apartheid in South Africa wasn't demonizing people was it?

Well that may be but the UN is the authority that defines international law, that's a fact and we either defined and respect that effort or we ignore it and watch the world descend into self destruction.
  • Hamas Covenant (1988): The preamble of this founding charter explicitly states: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it". It identifies Hamas as one of the "wings of Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine" and declares that all of Palestine is an Islamic waqf (holy trust) that can never be surrendered.

What Is Hamas? | Council on Foreign Relations
 
Well we face a terminology difficulty here, the phrase "dismantling of the state entirely" is pretty vague. So are you asking if the entity the state of Israel should vanish, its borders be erased etc then that's certainly an option, it is what could have been but for the British.

But less dramatic is the impostion of sanctions as the enforcement of UN resolutions regarding the occupation. Israel could start with that but it will not nor will most Israelis support that either.

Israeli society itself is broken, Hajo Meyer has talked about this as have other notable Jews. Meyer said that Israeli society is brainwashed and see Palestinians as second class citizens, they approve of treating them differently, Palestinians are perceived as a potential existential threat to Jews and as long as that attitude persists nothing can improve.

Then call them false statement not an emotive term intended to suggest that claims are antisemtic.

Not at all, it is something that can be justified, I'll take this opportunity to do that here:

1a. Nazis believed Aryans were in some way superior to Jews.
1b. Many Israels believe Jews are in some way superior to Arabs.
2a. Zionism is predicated on Jews having a divine right to territory in Palestine.
2b. Nazis believed that Germany had a right to expand its borders for its people.
3a. Nazis used a national tragedy to justify their policies - the Versaiiles treaty.
3b. Zionists use a national tragedy to justify their policies - the Holocaust.
4a. Nazis believed that Jews were a dire threat to Germans, an enemy waiting to take over.
4b. Zionists believe that Arabs are a dire threat to Jews, an enemy seeking to take over.

I could go on, you get the picture, these are defensible claims and the similarity justifies my comparison I think.


It's a label, a term describing the state of Israel, a term defining it by the nature of the ideology that formed it. Zionism was a nationalist political movement even before WW1. We had the World Zionist Organization, Workers of Zion, Revisionist Zionsim and more.

So the primary political forces that produced the eventual state of Israel all used the term "Zion" it is indelibly stamped on the political forces that gave rise to the state and which still heavily influence the state.

But there's more to my use of the term, the meaning that you deny exists is simple, it is what has that political ideology, the various factions and forces over the past 100 years, what effects has it produced? Zionist Israel is a label that represents the nature of the political and societal system, the effects it has had on non-Jews, these effects are part of the "meaning" of the term Zionist Israel.

It's disingenuous to attempt to deny the term has validity, again it strikes me as an effort to distort reality.

No, I don't think I can agree to that. Would it be wrong to have referred to Germany as Nazi Germany in the 1930s? or Communist USSR in the 1920s? Why do you seek to airbrush out the fact that ideological beliefs called "Zionism" BY JEWS 100 years ago are so named? Why drop the term?

Calling the Nazis Nazis wasn't demonizing people was it? Calling apartheid apartheid in South Africa wasn't demonizing people was it?

Well that may be but the UN is the authority that defines international law, that's a fact and we either defined and respect that effort or we ignore it and watch the world descend into self destruction.
Those are all things Muslims have believed about non Muslims for the last 1400 years as they invaded, raped, looted and murdered peoples and lands to spread Islam by force. You have it ass backwards.
 
They’re Arab invaders and squatters from neighboring Arab lands who started calling themselves Palestinian circa 1967. There has never been a country called Palestine or a Palestinian people. Deal with it or not, nobody gives a Shiite.
Israel fucked up in the Wars with Arabs.

They gave back Gaza and should have never done so.



President Jimmy Carter, throughout 1977 and during the 1978 Camp David negotiations, heavily pressured Israel to withdraw from occupied Arab territories (West Bank, Gaza, Sinai) based on U.N. Resolution 242. He sought a "land for peace" settlement, pushing for a Palestinian homeland and halting settlements.

PEANUT HEAD was a miserable failure. He pressured Israel into handing it back and the Muslim Brotherhood had been attacking from these places ever since.
 

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Peanut Head.

You were the 1st Dem to get on your knees to Iran. You left our people as Hostages for 444 days.

You helped Create the Iran we fight today.

You pressured Israel to give up Strategic land and created NO MAN'S LANDS that the Arab world has used to Attack Israel from for over 4 decades

Peanut Head. One of the worst Presudents in the History of the United States
 
They’re Arab invaders and squatters from neighboring Arab lands who started calling themselves Palestinian circa 1967. There has never been a country called Palestine or a Palestinian people. Deal with it or not, nobody gives a Shiite.
Why are you so bent out of shape over the name? Calling the inhabitants of a region by the name of the region isn't exactly a new idea.
 
Those are all things Muslims have believed about non Muslims for the last 1400 years as they invaded, raped, looted and murdered peoples and lands to spread Islam by force. You have it ass backwards.
Are you disagreeing with a claim I made or just throwing another hissy fit because you don't like what someone says?
 
Its pretty much the Truth. The Arab League, Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Iran, have Used Gaza as a proxy base to wage continual War on Israel.

Egypt has built walls and destroyed tunnels to Gaza. They dont want them.

Same for the West Bank and Jordan.

In Gaza for a half century they have been given money and help by the world. They choose to build tunnels and buy weapons and rockets instead. They choose War.

GAZA is Martydom by design.

Rockets fured at Israel by history.

Rocket & Mortar Attacks Against Israel by Date
You condone the premeditated murder of children?
 
Yup.

Hamas lives to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth.

Hey. BTW.

Who ran the Govt in GAZA?
Why are you raising this, do you want to change the subject to what some Arabs have said about Israel? well we can do that and we can see similar statements by some Israelis about Palestinians, is that what you want to do? if you want to do that then fine but it must be done without bias, would you agree?
 
Why are you raising this, do you want to change the subject to what some Arabs have said about Israel? well we can do that and we can see similar statements by some Israelis about Palestinians, is that what you want to do? if you want to do that then fine but it must be done without bias, would you agree?
Well. This thread is about Anger at ISRAEL and HAMAS is ANGRY at Israel so it matches the Op.

So now Hamas is so angry they kill Israel twice????
 
Well. This thread is about Anger at ISRAEL and HAMAS is ANGRY at Israel so it matches the Op.

So now Hamas is so angry they kill Israel twice????
Fine, so you want to talk about genocidal statements made by Arabs against Israel but not about genocidal statements made by Israel against Arabs.

You'll need to find someone else to talk to I'm afraid.
 
Fine, so you want to talk about genocidal statements made by Arabs against Israel but not about genocidal statements made by Israel against Arabs.

You'll need to find someone else to talk to I'm afraid.
Okie dokie

Which Nations has Israel vowed to wipe off the face of the earth?
 
15th post
That’s sick

Lap it up, squidward.

Gaza will not be rebuilt. It will be much more practical and cost-effective to build new cities on non-urbanized land than to clear the rubble and deal with all the tunneled land that would have to be demolished.
The ruins will remain for many years and will serve as a harsh warning to future terrorists and their supporters.
 
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