And the Chutzpah of the Year Award goes to...

[NewGuy]

They are crazy sometimes, but Cheyney admitted in the 1 year anniversary episode of 20/20 that he was informed he should shoot it down. He then said he didn't do it.

People saw it get shot down.

You don't hear it talked about anymore.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by NewGuy
They are crazy sometimes, but Cheyney admitted in the 1 year anniversary episode of 20/20 that he was informed he should shoot it down. He then said he didn't do it.

People saw it get shot down.

You don't hear it talked about anymore.

Say what! Who saw it get shot down? Is there any proof of that?

 

[OCA]

You know we will probably never know the definitive truth anyway. I believe to this day that the Pentagon plane was meant for the White House.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by OCA
Say what! Who saw it get shot down? Is there any proof of that?

They had interviews and stories within the first few hours and continuing for a few days. I doubt, like you, that we will ever know the whole story. Like the Kennedy thing, it takes putting all the real and logical pieces together of what we KNOW occurred and asking if it makes sense.

Between the phones and the wreckage, something isn't right in Kansas.

 

[NewGuy]

My thought on the whole thing is that we LET it happen so we could pass the patriot act.

I don't think it was a BUSH thing, I think it was a simple power grab over the freedom loving liberty advocates -more than half of which were more than happy to pick up a flag and camo in exchange for burning their Constitution.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by NewGuy
My thought on the whole thing is that we LET it happen so we could pass the patriot act.

Am I reading this correctly?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Am I reading this correctly?

Yep.

The patriot act takes freedom from people and gives it to government.

The socialists want government power through social programs. Nobody can deny that.

The EXTREME of the Republicans want more power through large military/corporate channels. We all know that.

What is left are a few people in the middle half of which make deals with liberals. We all know that.

The only ones left are outnumbered and insignificant.

IF this sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory, well, it is. Not only that, it is historical fact.

Government cannot grow by any other means. Power cannot be kept, nor grown any other way. Do we have more or less freedom today? Who made money off of the patriot act?

It certainly IS NOT Constitutional.

Why is it not being repealled or ignored in masse?

-Oh, also it WAS part of a document created a few years in advance of the event. That much was publicised by both parties as well.

 

[jimnyc]

I'm not going to debate you on the issues of the Patriot Act, I've done enough of that in the past. But are you seriously saying you believe our government purposely allowed 3,000 of it's own citizens to get killed just so they can push through this act?

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by jimnyc
I'm not going to debate you on the issues of the Patriot Act, I've done enough of that in the past. But are you seriously saying you believe our government purposely allowed 3,000 of it's own citizens to get killed just so they can push through this act?

Thats what i'm saying! Thats a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory if I ever heard one!

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by jimnyc
I'm not going to debate you on the issues of the Patriot Act, I've done enough of that in the past. But are you seriously saying you believe our government purposely allowed 3,000 of it's own citizens to get killed just so they can push through this act?

Absolutely. Have we not done the same thing in wars to move dollars around?

I think if you neutrally, seriously, look at human nature and how we conduct ourselves involving wars and/or large power grabs inside and outside the US, you can come to no other conclusion.

No matter how wacky it may sound, I would submit to you to look at history and follow power and money trails. Examine our society and how our government takes away freedoms, and never grants any.

They erode the constitution with nobody overturning a gun law or any other freedom infringing law on the basis of being Constitutionally illegal.

Don't you find anything odd in these facts individually?

Can one come to any other conclustion based track record?

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by NewGuy
They had interviews and stories within the first few hours and continuing for a few days. I doubt, like you, that we will ever know the whole story. Like the Kennedy thing, it takes putting all the real and logical pieces together of what we KNOW occurred and asking if it makes sense.

Between the phones and the wreckage, something isn't right in Kansas.

And what did these interviews and stories say? I never heard 1 credible thing about the plane being shot down. If you look at the video it doesn't look like its in a nose dive or anything other than a jet coming in for a landing.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Absolutely. Have we not done the same thing in wars to move dollars around?

Purposely allowed thousands of our citizens to get killed? That's conspiracy to commit murder, and I don't recall that ever happening before.

I think if you neutrally, seriously, look at human nature and how we conduct ourselves involving wars and/or large power grabs inside and outside the US, you can come to no other conclusion.

How about if I come to the conclusion that some radical muslims committed a terrorist act?

 

[Aquarian]

c'mon jim, you can't be surprised at hearing this theory. You must have heard all of the various bush let it happen, pnac needed a new pearl harbour excuse to go to war theories there are out there. Tho admittedly, the idea that the soul purpose would be to push thru the patriot act is kinda odd when there are so many other good motives to assign to it...

just in case here's a sample of what's out there:

ask why gw had anti-aircraft artillery in place on the roof of his hotel in florida the morning of sept 11th. Is artillery installation normal for presidential visits? Not sure on that

why did he continue to sit in the classroom for 20 minutes after andy card told him about the second plane, including the words 'we're under attack'?

ask why ashcroft stopped flying commercial airlines:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/07/26/national/main303601.shtml

ask why fighter jets weren't scrambled faster and from more appropriate bases:
http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1022&mode=&order=0&thold=0

ask who was pushing profitable financial transactions thru just as the planes struck:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/011218reuters

Who are the Investors and individual stockbrokers that placed abnormally high bets just before 911 on American Airlines and United Airlines Stock to take a sudden fall in value?

ask what is in those hidden 28 pages from the congressional report on saudi arabia's in role in 9/11
http://www.alternet.org/print.html?StoryID=16513

ask why the administration said the use of airliners to crash into buildings was a surprise that had never been discussed before when the olympics have had security precautions in place for such an attack since 1973, indeed even the cia and the fbi both were aware that alqueda specifically was interested in that very scenario as of at least 1998:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/020919nytimes

overview:
http://www.911timeline.net/

the last link there is a good timeline, but filled with conspiracy crap so weed it out if ya can. Like all things internet, the conspiracy theories are probably 70% crap, 20% things the powers that be can't answer due to national security but that last 10% of unanswered questions are kinda interesting...

 

[jimnyc]

Wow, a whole smorgasbord of conspiracies! Probably some interesting reading material but I don't put too much stock into conspiracy theories.

 

[NewGuy]

Well, there is no need for me to push MY thoughts on the subject.

I have brought up valid points and issues of documented fact.

To have to prove my case already shows I am wasting my breath. I would think we could all agree digging up docs from a couple years ago on the subject would be pretty difficult.

The reason you find my viewpoint to be so shocking and wacky is because you have not chosen to throw out what you know and research the unanswered questions to let the facts dictate what truly happened.

You don't need to recall Kennedy, Nixon, or any other grand scandal of lies to know this stuff is possible and also probable.

You may choose to believe what you wish. Just remember that if you aren't supposed to know something, it will be ridiculed heavily and you will not find much evidence to support it.

Since I am the only one willing to look neutrally at it, then that is fine. I will stop.

 

[jimnyc]

NewGuy, I am not ridiculing you and I apologize if I came off that way. I disagree with you more than you can imagine, but you're entitled to your viewpoint. I'm just a 'show me the facts' kind of guy. I don't think our government is beyond reproach but I find it extremely hard to believe they had a part in 9/11 or purposely allowed it to happen in any way - at least not without any factual evidence to speak of.

 

[Aquarian]

don't give up newguy Sure, they'll accuse us of wearing tinfoil hats from time to time but that's the price those who question authority pay. If the questions have merit it will be recognized eventually. For instance, there was indeed questions at the time as to whether the plane in pa was shot down or crashed. the debris issues were noted as well:

http://www.flight93crash.com/flight93_secondary_debris_field.html

also see the comments on flight 93 in the last timeline link in my previous post.

there are a bunch of good folks here, tho some are ornery as heck

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Aquarian
there are a bunch of good folks here, tho some are ornery as heck

Not me, I'm as nice as they come.

 

[winston churchi]

Originally posted by Zhukov
I think the ones that hit the WTC came from Logan in Boston, and the other two came from the two airports in NYC.

Yes they did. American Airlines and United.

 

[winston churchi]

Originally posted by NewGuy
They are crazy sometimes, but Cheyney admitted in the 1 year anniversary episode of 20/20 that he was informed he should shoot it down. He then said he didn't do it.

People saw it get shot down.

You don't hear it talked about anymore.

That wouldn't something for public information. BUT should it have occured..what choice was there? Think about the consequence should that have happened.

Many stories. The truth is, it hit the ground and sadly those killed were the ones on board and not ground citizens.