An Op Ed for the two party supporters

[Mac1958]

Your insistence that I am Democrat, or a leftist, or whatever boogieman you're jerking off to at the moment, tells me all I need to know about your judgement and reasoning skills. They've been consumed by your screeching fear and cowardice. And everyone who doesn't join you in your defeat is reminder of what you've sacrificed. No wonder you hate us so much.

The rule has applied since Escalator Day: You're either an obedient Trumpster or you're an Evil Hitler Deep State Swamp Commie.

They simply don't recognize or understand anything else.

False dichotomy. I'm not even a loyal Trumpster, moron. I agree with him only when he's right. Really the only things I agree with him on are fighting back against Democrat tyranny, protecting the border and streamlining business regulations.

But challenge accepted.

I'm not with Trump on that he didn't pull out of Afghanistan, he got us deeper in Syria, he spends too much money, he didn't finish the wall at all costs, he didn't do enough to deregulate business, his trade policies were not based on free trade but warping markets.

Your turn, how are you not a Biden Bigot? You claim you aren't a Democrat, what are they fucking nuts about?

Please try to calm down.

I disagree with Biden and the Democrats on many issues, so I could never be a Democrat.

You are free, however, to continue with the personal attacks, name-calling and Trump defense.

I'm just not required to participate.

You disagree with Biden on many issues, but you can't think of any examples, LOL. Well, that's not convincing. You are a funny sheep though

I can think of many. You didn't ask, because you don't have the balls to.

Pick any issue, and I'll be happy to tell you where and how I disagree with the Dems.

Do you have the balls to do that?

kaz: "Your turn, how are you not a Biden Bigot?"

Mac1958: "You didn't ask, because you don't have the balls to."

I did ask, jackass

Yeah, I didn't think so.

You just want to BITCH.

Man up, Trumpster.

So no, you can't think of any of your positions that show you're not a Democrat. At least you admitted that, well done. And thanks again for the support with dblack

You're a liar and a coward. A solid Trumpster.

I asked you to list any issue you wanted, and I'd tell you exactly how I disagree with the Dems.

But you've run. That's low, even for you.

You are dismissed, wimp.

 

[kaz]

You disagree with Biden on many issues, but you can't think of any examples, LOL. Well, that's not convincing. You are a funny sheep though

I can think of plenty - and I've posted about them plenty. But I'm not playing your childish game. For you, it's all about identity, us against them, pick a side and fight, fight, fight! That's exactly what I'm rejecting. That's what's tearing our country apart.

This is a message board, you're perfectly free to respond to any post.

But please stop responding to what I said to Mac as if I said it to you.

Please accept my sincere apologies. I misread.

I am NOT saying you're a Democrat.

Ahh.. ok. It sure seems like that's what you've been saying. Over and over again. I guess I misread all those other times too.

Mac is a Democrat. I'm asking about your messaging. You've written 40K posts over a decade on this board. Why do totalitarian leftists think you're one of them? I'm asking why YOU think they do that. Don't you ever think about it?

Not much, no. I don't tailor my opinions and values to conform to a specific group.

Part I - accepted.

Part II - I have said that over and over, I'm asking you about the messaging. How do you possibly not undersatnd that at this point.

Part III - if you don't tailor your messages to respond to a specific group, then why is one and only one specific group responding to your messages? And that group is the OPPOSITE of what you claim to believe. They are totalitarian leftists, the opposite of libertarian. Not one conservative or libertarian ever defends you. Democrats do all the time.

I'm asking you about what you are saying. Why does that particular group who are the opposite of what you believe the ONLY group that responds to you? That is an important question since that means you are clearly not effective in your communications.

I am pressing you on this because I am interested in the answer. I don't know how a libertarian can appeal to authoritarian leftists. It makes no sense to me

 

[kaz]

Your insistence that I am Democrat, or a leftist, or whatever boogieman you're jerking off to at the moment, tells me all I need to know about your judgement and reasoning skills. They've been consumed by your screeching fear and cowardice. And everyone who doesn't join you in your defeat is reminder of what you've sacrificed. No wonder you hate us so much.

The rule has applied since Escalator Day: You're either an obedient Trumpster or you're an Evil Hitler Deep State Swamp Commie.

They simply don't recognize or understand anything else.

False dichotomy. I'm not even a loyal Trumpster, moron. I agree with him only when he's right. Really the only things I agree with him on are fighting back against Democrat tyranny, protecting the border and streamlining business regulations.

But challenge accepted.

I'm not with Trump on that he didn't pull out of Afghanistan, he got us deeper in Syria, he spends too much money, he didn't finish the wall at all costs, he didn't do enough to deregulate business, his trade policies were not based on free trade but warping markets.

Your turn, how are you not a Biden Bigot? You claim you aren't a Democrat, what are they fucking nuts about?

Please try to calm down.

I disagree with Biden and the Democrats on many issues, so I could never be a Democrat.

You are free, however, to continue with the personal attacks, name-calling and Trump defense.

I'm just not required to participate.

You disagree with Biden on many issues, but you can't think of any examples, LOL. Well, that's not convincing. You are a funny sheep though

I can think of many. You didn't ask, because you don't have the balls to.

Pick any issue, and I'll be happy to tell you where and how I disagree with the Dems.

Do you have the balls to do that?

kaz: "Your turn, how are you not a Biden Bigot?"

Mac1958: "You didn't ask, because you don't have the balls to."

I did ask, jackass

Yeah, I didn't think so.

You just want to BITCH.

Man up, Trumpster.

So no, you can't think of any of your positions that show you're not a Democrat. At least you admitted that, well done. And thanks again for the support with dblack

You're a liar and a coward. A solid Trumpster.

I asked you to list any issue you wanted, and I'd tell you exactly how I disagree with the Dems.

But you've run. That's low, even for you.

You are dismissed, wimp.

LOL, you figured out I support Trump when I told you I support Trump. Your mom keeps telling you how clever you are, doesn't she? LOL, what a stupid racist douche

 

[kaz]

Your insistence that I am Democrat, or a leftist, or whatever boogieman you're jerking off to at the moment, tells me all I need to know about your judgement and reasoning skills. They've been consumed by your screeching fear and cowardice. And everyone who doesn't join you in your defeat is reminder of what you've sacrificed. No wonder you hate us so much.

The rule has applied since Escalator Day: You're either an obedient Trumpster or you're an Evil Hitler Deep State Swamp Commie.

They simply don't recognize or understand anything else.

False dichotomy. I'm not even a loyal Trumpster, moron. I agree with him only when he's right. Really the only things I agree with him on are fighting back against Democrat tyranny, protecting the border and streamlining business regulations.

But challenge accepted.

I'm not with Trump on that he didn't pull out of Afghanistan, he got us deeper in Syria, he spends too much money, he didn't finish the wall at all costs, he didn't do enough to deregulate business, his trade policies were not based on free trade but warping markets.

Your turn, how are you not a Biden Bigot? You claim you aren't a Democrat, what are they fucking nuts about?

Please try to calm down.

I disagree with Biden and the Democrats on many issues, so I could never be a Democrat.

You are free, however, to continue with the personal attacks, name-calling and Trump defense.

I'm just not required to participate.

Check out the leftist PROG who takes a step-back on his own because he's too big a coward to admit he's a Democrat devoted turd. First he does it, then he doesn't own it. You and White should hang out.

Everyone knows you're a Demonicrat Mac.

Bam! Nicely put. pknopp is another one. They do what they do then deny it

 

[Donald H]

Your insistence that I am Democrat, or a leftist, or whatever boogieman you're jerking off to at the moment, tells me all I need to know about your judgement and reasoning skills. They've been consumed by your screeching fear and cowardice. And everyone who doesn't join you in your defeat is reminder of what you've sacrificed. No wonder you hate us so much.

The rule has applied since Escalator Day: You're either an obedient Trumpster or you're an Evil Hitler Deep State Swamp Commie.

They simply don't recognize or understand anything else.

False dichotomy. I'm not even a loyal Trumpster, moron. I agree with him only when he's right. Really the only things I agree with him on are fighting back against Democrat tyranny, protecting the border and streamlining business regulations.

But challenge accepted.

I'm not with Trump on that he didn't pull out of Afghanistan, he got us deeper in Syria, he spends too much money, he didn't finish the wall at all costs, he didn't do enough to deregulate business, his trade policies were not based on free trade but warping markets.

Your turn, how are you not a Biden Bigot? You claim you aren't a Democrat, what are they fucking nuts about?

Please try to calm down.

I disagree with Biden and the Democrats on many issues, so I could never be a Democrat.

You are free, however, to continue with the personal attacks, name-calling and Trump defense.

I'm just not required to participate.

The OP initiated a worthwhile topic for discussion. Maybe you should just try to ignore all the ignorant spammers on this board that make discussions impossible.

It's worth rescuing even though he got the basic premise, but then went way too far with his own biased politics.

Worth mentioning though, that so many Americans are looking for some real answers. They must be visualizing some of the worst consequences.

Keep up the good work, you represent the best of this forum.

Much appreciated.

I look at this as a cultural issue. We should be furious at this two party system, but we're more concerned about who won on Dancing with the Stars™.

Yes, dancing with the stars is right in that it's symbolically correct.

America is coming close to a crisis situation in which both sides could open fire on each other at any time. That makes it a difficult time to tackle what is at the heart of the madness.

Trump? How could so many Americans have come to take him seriously?

The answer is, working class Americans in very large numbers were feeling the hurt and in desperation turned to a madman for relief.

The problems haven't been addressed and acted upon. It's probably 90% likely that Biden is going to fail.

 

[kaz]

Americans need to come to the understanding that they've been taken in by a sick psychopath who still believes in his heart that he was cheated out of his presidency.

There's great danger ahead for America if they don't break free of that fantasy.

The last two losers believe that. Many (or at least far too many) of their supporters still believe that, hence my first post.

The last two losers? Are you trying to say something?

From an outsider's POV, I can only see Biden and his party being defeated and becoming irrelevant.

That makes the establishment status quo safe for the foreseeable future.

And that ensures that the working class in America will have its concerns ignored.

Am I trying to say something? Yes, both are losers and that is who the parties decided to offer.

And yet in discussion after discussion you can't come up with any reason Biden is a loser when you clearly voted for him.

Don't say it's the same the other way, I said I voted for Trump. It's your denial of the obvious that you voted for Biden that's so lame

 

[Rigby5]

I would have been zero for seven if the Libertarian Party hadn't stopped nominating actual libertarians.

It's been infiltrated by lefties and has become a sept of the Dem party to siphon votes from the dog-shit GOP.

Excuses for selling out and supporting Trump. Sad.

We're not like you. We don't support radical totalitarian leftists.

Yeah, yeah, I know. You aren't a Democrat even though you spend almost all your time on the site parroting their talking points.

Trump's policies weren't very good and the ones that were didn't go far enough. But he did one thing with radical leftist fascism and racism and stealing elections that you keep making excuses for. Trump fought back.

At this point the best thing we can do for our liberty is fight the left. And you still struggle to figure out how you are different from them. Leftists on the board don't know how you're different from them either

So you don't like the democratic party line.
Fine, I don't either.
But that is because I am a far left, progressive, liberal, and the democratic party has been pro war, pro banks, pro private health insurance, etc.
Left, progressive, and liberal means anti-war, regulating banks, regulating corporations, and public financed joint social obligations like health care, education, transportation, etc.

You used "totalitarian" and "fascist", but those terms only refer to right wing policies of an oligarchy. They do not apply to left wing political beliefs. Left wing means low level, local, populist government that emphasizes individual rights and liberties.
Right wing by definition means Laissez fair capitalism, with unregulated banks, and corporations, and the wealthy elite in control of everything. Left is decentralized and popular, while right is centralized by the wealthy.

 

[Mac1958]

Your insistence that I am Democrat, or a leftist, or whatever boogieman you're jerking off to at the moment, tells me all I need to know about your judgement and reasoning skills. They've been consumed by your screeching fear and cowardice. And everyone who doesn't join you in your defeat is reminder of what you've sacrificed. No wonder you hate us so much.

The rule has applied since Escalator Day: You're either an obedient Trumpster or you're an Evil Hitler Deep State Swamp Commie.

They simply don't recognize or understand anything else.

False dichotomy. I'm not even a loyal Trumpster, moron. I agree with him only when he's right. Really the only things I agree with him on are fighting back against Democrat tyranny, protecting the border and streamlining business regulations.

But challenge accepted.

I'm not with Trump on that he didn't pull out of Afghanistan, he got us deeper in Syria, he spends too much money, he didn't finish the wall at all costs, he didn't do enough to deregulate business, his trade policies were not based on free trade but warping markets.

Your turn, how are you not a Biden Bigot? You claim you aren't a Democrat, what are they fucking nuts about?

Please try to calm down.

I disagree with Biden and the Democrats on many issues, so I could never be a Democrat.

You are free, however, to continue with the personal attacks, name-calling and Trump defense.

I'm just not required to participate.

The OP initiated a worthwhile topic for discussion. Maybe you should just try to ignore all the ignorant spammers on this board that make discussions impossible.

It's worth rescuing even though he got the basic premise, but then went way too far with his own biased politics.

Worth mentioning though, that so many Americans are looking for some real answers. They must be visualizing some of the worst consequences.

Keep up the good work, you represent the best of this forum.

Much appreciated.

I look at this as a cultural issue. We should be furious at this two party system, but we're more concerned about who won on Dancing with the Stars™.

Yes, dancing with the stars is right in that it's symbolically correct.

America is coming close to a crisis situation in which both sides could open fire on each other at any time. That makes it a difficult time to tackle what is at the heart of the madness.

Trump? How could so many Americans have come to take him seriously?

The answer is, working class Americans in very large numbers were feeling the hurt and in desperation turned to a madman for relief.

The problems haven't been addressed and acted upon. It's probably 90% likely that Biden is going to fail.

Agree completely. His win, and his incredible popularity, have been the result of a frustration and paranoia that have been building (with plenty of help) for about three decades.

I don't think anyone outside of that universe saw this coming, including the Republican establishment.

 

[dblack]

if you don't tailor your messages to respond to a specific group, then why is one and only one specific group responding to your messages? And that group is the OPPOSITE of what you claim to believe. They are totalitarian leftists, the opposite of libertarian. Not one conservative or libertarian ever defends you. Democrats do all the time.

Well, that's demonstrably untrue. But to placate you with examples completely misses the point of the thread. You're so steeped in the partisan mindset, with the idea that you must pick a side, and then fight everything the "other" side does, and defend everything yours does - that's the poison the thread is highlighting.

I'm asking you about what you are saying. Why does that particular group who are the opposite of what you believe the ONLY group that responds to you? That is an important question since that means you are clearly not effective in your communications.

I am pressing you on this because I am interested in the answer. I don't know how a libertarian can appeal to authoritarian leftists. It makes no sense to me

Sorry. I'm just not fixated on group identity in the way you are. Near as I can tell, Democrats only agree with me when it comes to Trump. But, and I can't emphasize this enough, I don't really care. If Democrats suddenly happen to agree with me on everything - great! Likewise, if Trump sees the light and changes his tune - great. And if both sides disagree with me on most issues (much closer to the actual truth of the matter), then that's the way it is. I'm not going to change my values based on which parties I'll get invited to.

 

[kaz]

I would have been zero for seven if the Libertarian Party hadn't stopped nominating actual libertarians.

It's been infiltrated by lefties and has become a sept of the Dem party to siphon votes from the dog-shit GOP.

Excuses for selling out and supporting Trump. Sad.

We're not like you. We don't support radical totalitarian leftists.

Yeah, yeah, I know. You aren't a Democrat even though you spend almost all your time on the site parroting their talking points.

Trump's policies weren't very good and the ones that were didn't go far enough. But he did one thing with radical leftist fascism and racism and stealing elections that you keep making excuses for. Trump fought back.

At this point the best thing we can do for our liberty is fight the left. And you still struggle to figure out how you are different from them. Leftists on the board don't know how you're different from them either

So you don't like the democratic party line.
Fine, I don't either.
But that is because I am a far left, progressive, liberal, and the democratic party has been pro war, pro banks, pro private health insurance, etc.
Left, progressive, and liberal means anti-war, regulating banks, regulating corporations, and public financed joint social obligations like health care, education, transportation, etc.

You used "totalitarian" and "fascist", but those terms only refer to right wing policies of an oligarchy. They do not apply to left wing political beliefs. Left wing means low level, local, populist government that emphasizes individual rights and liberties.
Right wing by definition means Laissez fair capitalism, with unregulated banks, and corporations, and the wealthy elite in control of everything. Left is decentralized and popular, while right is centralized by the wealthy.

How can you breathe while you drown in Marxist propaganda, Karl?

 

[bendog]

Your insistence that I am Democrat, or a leftist, or whatever boogieman you're jerking off to at the moment, tells me all I need to know about your judgement and reasoning skills. They've been consumed by your screeching fear and cowardice. And everyone who doesn't join you in your defeat is reminder of what you've sacrificed. No wonder you hate us so much.

The rule has applied since Escalator Day: You're either an obedient Trumpster or you're an Evil Hitler Deep State Swamp Commie.

They simply don't recognize or understand anything else.

False dichotomy. I'm not even a loyal Trumpster, moron. I agree with him only when he's right. Really the only things I agree with him on are fighting back against Democrat tyranny, protecting the border and streamlining business regulations.

But challenge accepted.

I'm not with Trump on that he didn't pull out of Afghanistan, he got us deeper in Syria, he spends too much money, he didn't finish the wall at all costs, he didn't do enough to deregulate business, his trade policies were not based on free trade but warping markets.

Your turn, how are you not a Biden Bigot? You claim you aren't a Democrat, what are they fucking nuts about?

Please try to calm down.

I disagree with Biden and the Democrats on many issues, so I could never be a Democrat.

You are free, however, to continue with the personal attacks, name-calling and Trump defense.

I'm just not required to participate.

The OP initiated a worthwhile topic for discussion. Maybe you should just try to ignore all the ignorant spammers on this board that make discussions impossible.

It's worth rescuing even though he got the basic premise, but then went way too far with his own biased politics.

Worth mentioning though, that so many Americans are looking for some real answers. They must be visualizing some of the worst consequences.

Keep up the good work, you represent the best of this forum.

False dichotomy. I'm not even a loyal Trumpster, moron. I agree with him only when he's right. Really the only things I agree with him on are fighting back against Democrat tyranny, protecting the border and streamlining business regulations.

But challenge accepted.

I'm not with Trump on that he didn't pull out of Afghanistan, he got us deeper in Syria, he spends too much money, he didn't finish the wall at all costs, he didn't do enough to deregulate business, his trade policies were not based on free trade but warping markets.

Your turn, how are you not a Biden Bigot? You claim you aren't a Democrat, what are they fucking nuts about?

Please try to calm down.

I disagree with Biden and the Democrats on many issues, so I could never be a Democrat.

You are free, however, to continue with the personal attacks, name-calling and Trump defense.

I'm just not required to participate.

The OP initiated a worthwhile topic for discussion. Maybe you should just try to ignore all the ignorant spammers on this board that make discussions impossible.

It's worth rescuing even though he got the basic premise, but then went way too far with his own biased politics.

Worth mentioning though, that so many Americans are looking for some real answers. They must be visualizing some of the worst consequences.

Keep up the good work, you represent the best of this forum.

So you don't think the discussion of agreeing with the parties on some issues and not others making you a blind supporter of the party has anything to do with a thread on the two party system?

I think it does

This is what I don't get about either the OP or your views. I don't see any lack of logic or inconsistency if - for example - a person considers him/her self pro life, but votes gop even though there's the death penalty and Trump's policies in Yemen and in separating children. Nor do I see any lack of logic or inconsistency if a pro-life person votes dem based upon the DP and Yemen and immigration because abortions are lessened even without finding no worst-alternative can never be an abortion.

Absolutely, the MSM and parties try to divide by cutting into the grey areas to gain votes, but they are simply exploiting differences. Imo Trump and RW media have taken it a step further in they are rewriting truth for their own financial interests. Yes the 20 election involved people not voting the way they were expected to, and voting itself was screwed up with covid. But nothing made 20 "an invalid" election anymore then 2016, 2020, 1960 ... to say nothing of 1824 or 1968

 

[Rigby5]

No one should be happy about Trump or Biden.
Trump nor Biden ever balanced the budget or ended a war.

Both are obviously and equally crooks, with Trump and Biden both clearly selling influence.

 

[kaz]

if you don't tailor your messages to respond to a specific group, then why is one and only one specific group responding to your messages? And that group is the OPPOSITE of what you claim to believe. They are totalitarian leftists, the opposite of libertarian. Not one conservative or libertarian ever defends you. Democrats do all the time.

Well, that's demonstrably untrue. But to placate you with examples completely misses the point of the thread. You're so steeped in the partisan mindset, with the idea that you must pick a side, and then fight everything the "other" side does, and defend everything yours does - that's the poison the thread is highlighting.

I'm asking you about what you are saying. Why does that particular group who are the opposite of what you believe the ONLY group that responds to you? That is an important question since that means you are clearly not effective in your communications.

I am pressing you on this because I am interested in the answer. I don't know how a libertarian can appeal to authoritarian leftists. It makes no sense to me

Sorry. I'm just not fixated on group identity in the way you are. Near as I can tell, Democrats only agree with me when it comes to Trump. But, and I can't emphasize this enough, I don't really care. If Democrats suddenly happen to agree with me on everything - great! Likewise, if Trump sees the light and changes his tune - great. And if both sides disagree with me on most issues (much closer to the actual truth of the matter), then that's the way it is. I'm not going to change my values based on which parties I'll get invited to.

OK, so you actually believe I don't see all your discussions with everyone else. I don't see your high fives with the left, even in this conversation where Mac1958 wrapped himself firmly around your balls to protect you. I don't see you having all the same conversations with other conservatives and libertarians you have with me. It's just me. I imagine it all.

You have no self reflection. I suppose that's a large part of my answer to my question.

Oddball made a great comment when you were butt slapping and high fiving a leftist. He said he supposes you think that's normal. Well, it's not normal that totalitarians think you are one of them and no conservative or libertarian thinks you are one of us. It's just not.

But for the record, I asked because I was interested in the answer. But you're clearly not going to provide one, I got it

 

[Rigby5]

I would have been zero for seven if the Libertarian Party hadn't stopped nominating actual libertarians.

It's been infiltrated by lefties and has become a sept of the Dem party to siphon votes from the dog-shit GOP.

Excuses for selling out and supporting Trump. Sad.

We're not like you. We don't support radical totalitarian leftists.

Yeah, yeah, I know. You aren't a Democrat even though you spend almost all your time on the site parroting their talking points.

Trump's policies weren't very good and the ones that were didn't go far enough. But he did one thing with radical leftist fascism and racism and stealing elections that you keep making excuses for. Trump fought back.

At this point the best thing we can do for our liberty is fight the left. And you still struggle to figure out how you are different from them. Leftists on the board don't know how you're different from them either

So you don't like the democratic party line.
Fine, I don't either.
But that is because I am a far left, progressive, liberal, and the democratic party has been pro war, pro banks, pro private health insurance, etc.
Left, progressive, and liberal means anti-war, regulating banks, regulating corporations, and public financed joint social obligations like health care, education, transportation, etc.

You used "totalitarian" and "fascist", but those terms only refer to right wing policies of an oligarchy. They do not apply to left wing political beliefs. Left wing means low level, local, populist government that emphasizes individual rights and liberties.
Right wing by definition means Laissez fair capitalism, with unregulated banks, and corporations, and the wealthy elite in control of everything. Left is decentralized and popular, while right is centralized by the wealthy.

How can you breathe while you drown in Marxist propaganda, Karl?

Do you want to actually know what Marx wrote about?
When the industrial revolution hit around 1830, he wrote about how the big corporation were taking over and making virtual slave of people who could no longer compete against steam power looms, with their failing cottage industries.
He was complaining about child labor, forced 14 hour days, no benefits, no holidays, no compensation for on the job injuries, etc.
Everyone should be a Marxist, or else they are fascist monsters.
Marx just means regulations to protect individuals from the big corporations.
It just means collective bargaining.
He identified a problem, and hardly went into solutions at all.
Those who think the Stalinist Soviet Union was Marxist, do not know what Marx wrote.

 

[kaz]

The OP initiated a worthwhile topic for discussion. Maybe you should just try to ignore all the ignorant spammers on this board that make discussions impossible.

It's worth rescuing even though he got the basic premise, but then went way too far with his own biased politics.

Worth mentioning though, that so many Americans are looking for some real answers. They must be visualizing some of the worst consequences.

Keep up the good work, you represent the best of this forum.

So you don't think the discussion of agreeing with the parties on some issues and not others making you a blind supporter of the party has anything to do with a thread on the two party system?

I think it does

This is what I don't get about either the OP or your views. I don't see any lack of logic or inconsistency if - for example - a person considers him/her self pro life, but votes gop even though there's the death penalty and Trump's policies in Yemen and in separating children. Nor do I see any lack of logic or inconsistency if a pro-life person votes dem based upon the DP and Yemen and immigration because abortions are lessened even without finding no worst-alternative can never be an abortion.

Absolutely, the MSM and parties try to divide by cutting into the grey areas to gain votes, but they are simply exploiting differences. Imo Trump and RW media have taken it a step further in they are rewriting truth for their own financial interests. Yes the 20 election involved people not voting the way they were expected to, and voting itself was screwed up with covid. But nothing made 20 "an invalid" election anymore then 2016, 2020, 1960 ... to say nothing of 1824 or 1968

Such bigotry in your points.

I'm pro-choice and anti-death penalty, but there is no logical inconsistency in believing in protecting the innocent and punishing the guilty. Someone who committed six murders made a CHOICE. A baby didn't make a choice to be conceived. That's not a contraction by Republicans, it's just propaganda by you.

Even dumber is your talking about Republicans separating children from their parents when the parents commit crimes and your silence about Democrats luring them here in the first place and all the kids that are raped, die and sold into slavery because of it.

You're a fucking propagandist, get help

 

[Rigby5]

if you don't tailor your messages to respond to a specific group, then why is one and only one specific group responding to your messages? And that group is the OPPOSITE of what you claim to believe. They are totalitarian leftists, the opposite of libertarian. Not one conservative or libertarian ever defends you. Democrats do all the time.

Well, that's demonstrably untrue. But to placate you with examples completely misses the point of the thread. You're so steeped in the partisan mindset, with the idea that you must pick a side, and then fight everything the "other" side does, and defend everything yours does - that's the poison the thread is highlighting.

I'm asking you about what you are saying. Why does that particular group who are the opposite of what you believe the ONLY group that responds to you? That is an important question since that means you are clearly not effective in your communications.

I am pressing you on this because I am interested in the answer. I don't know how a libertarian can appeal to authoritarian leftists. It makes no sense to me

Sorry. I'm just not fixated on group identity in the way you are. Near as I can tell, Democrats only agree with me when it comes to Trump. But, and I can't emphasize this enough, I don't really care. If Democrats suddenly happen to agree with me on everything - great! Likewise, if Trump sees the light and changes his tune - great. And if both sides disagree with me on most issues (much closer to the actual truth of the matter), then that's the way it is. I'm not going to change my values based on which parties I'll get invited to.

OK, so you actually believe I don't see all your discussions with everyone else. I don't see your high fives with the left, even in this conversation where Mac1958 wrapped himself firmly around your balls to protect you. I don't see you having all the same conversations with other conservatives and libertarians you have with me. It's just me. I imagine it all.

You have no self reflection. I suppose that's a large part of my answer to my question.

Oddball made a great comment when you were butt slapping and high fiving a leftist. He said he supposes you think that's normal. Well, it's not normal that totalitarians think you are one of them and no conservative or libertarian thinks you are one of us. It's just not.

But for the record, I asked because I was interested in the answer. But you're clearly not going to provide one, I got it

You still have it all wrong.
Totalitarianism is right wing, just as fascism is.
It is when the wealthy elite take over.
It is called an oligarchy, and is centralized so the wealthy elite can use a centralize police force to terrorize the population.
It is the right that passed all the gun control laws like 1934 and 1986, until Clinton. Clinton was the first to claim to be left and still support gun control.

Left wing is populist, which is decentralized.
Liberal means protecting individual liberties.
Progressive means removing the old harmful centralized advantages of the wealthy aristocrats.
Like ending slavery.
Like allowing the poor to own guns.

 

[bendog]

The OP initiated a worthwhile topic for discussion. Maybe you should just try to ignore all the ignorant spammers on this board that make discussions impossible.

It's worth rescuing even though he got the basic premise, but then went way too far with his own biased politics.

Worth mentioning though, that so many Americans are looking for some real answers. They must be visualizing some of the worst consequences.

Keep up the good work, you represent the best of this forum.

So you don't think the discussion of agreeing with the parties on some issues and not others making you a blind supporter of the party has anything to do with a thread on the two party system?

I think it does

This is what I don't get about either the OP or your views. I don't see any lack of logic or inconsistency if - for example - a person considers him/her self pro life, but votes gop even though there's the death penalty and Trump's policies in Yemen and in separating children. Nor do I see any lack of logic or inconsistency if a pro-life person votes dem based upon the DP and Yemen and immigration because abortions are lessened even without finding no worst-alternative can never be an abortion.

Absolutely, the MSM and parties try to divide by cutting into the grey areas to gain votes, but they are simply exploiting differences. Imo Trump and RW media have taken it a step further in they are rewriting truth for their own financial interests. Yes the 20 election involved people not voting the way they were expected to, and voting itself was screwed up with covid. But nothing made 20 "an invalid" election anymore then 2016, 2020, 1960 ... to say nothing of 1824 or 1968

Such bigotry in your points.

I'm pro-choice and anti-death penalty, but there is no logical inconsistency in believing in protecting the innocent and punishing the guilty. Someone who committed six murders made a CHOICE. A baby didn't make a choice to be conceived. That's not a contraction by Republicans, it's just propaganda by you.

Even dumber is your talking about Republicans separating children from their parents when they commit crimes and your silence about Democrats luring them here in the first place and all the kids that are raped, die and sold into slavery because of it.

You're a fucking propagandist, get help

Thank you for answering my question.

It does demonstrate the limits of the OP in that I don't think the media is influencing you.

 

[dblack]

OK, so you actually believe I don't see all your discussions with everyone else. I don't see your high fives with the left, even in this conversation where Mac1958 wrapped himself firmly around your balls to protect you. I don't see you having all the same conversations with other conservatives and libertarians you have with me. It's just me. I imagine it all.

No, it's not just you. Most partisans are trapped in the same mindset, imagining the same horseshit.

 

[kaz]

I would have been zero for seven if the Libertarian Party hadn't stopped nominating actual libertarians.

It's been infiltrated by lefties and has become a sept of the Dem party to siphon votes from the dog-shit GOP.

Excuses for selling out and supporting Trump. Sad.

We're not like you. We don't support radical totalitarian leftists.

Yeah, yeah, I know. You aren't a Democrat even though you spend almost all your time on the site parroting their talking points.

Trump's policies weren't very good and the ones that were didn't go far enough. But he did one thing with radical leftist fascism and racism and stealing elections that you keep making excuses for. Trump fought back.

At this point the best thing we can do for our liberty is fight the left. And you still struggle to figure out how you are different from them. Leftists on the board don't know how you're different from them either

So you don't like the democratic party line.
Fine, I don't either.
But that is because I am a far left, progressive, liberal, and the democratic party has been pro war, pro banks, pro private health insurance, etc.
Left, progressive, and liberal means anti-war, regulating banks, regulating corporations, and public financed joint social obligations like health care, education, transportation, etc.

You used "totalitarian" and "fascist", but those terms only refer to right wing policies of an oligarchy. They do not apply to left wing political beliefs. Left wing means low level, local, populist government that emphasizes individual rights and liberties.
Right wing by definition means Laissez fair capitalism, with unregulated banks, and corporations, and the wealthy elite in control of everything. Left is decentralized and popular, while right is centralized by the wealthy.

How can you breathe while you drown in Marxist propaganda, Karl?

Do you want to actually know what Marx wrote about?
When the industrial revolution hit around 1830, he wrote about how the big corporation were taking over and making virtual slave of people who could no longer compete against steam power looms, with their failing cottage industries.
He was complaining about child labor, forced 14 hour days, no benefits, no holidays, no compensation for on the job injuries, etc.
Everyone should be a Marxist, or else they are fascist monsters.
Marx just means regulations to protect individuals from the big corporations.
It just means collective bargaining.
He identified a problem, and hardly went into solutions at all.
Those who think the Stalinist Soviet Union was Marxist, do not know what Marx wrote.

Yes, I am familiar with what Marxism was all about. No, I'm not consumed with it to the point you are. Though everything you are sharing here is just propaganda

 

[Oddball]

I would have been zero for seven if the Libertarian Party hadn't stopped nominating actual libertarians.

It's been infiltrated by lefties and has become a sept of the Dem party to siphon votes from the dog-shit GOP.

Excuses for selling out and supporting Trump. Sad.

We're not like you. We don't support radical totalitarian leftists.

Yeah, yeah, I know. You aren't a Democrat even though you spend almost all your time on the site parroting their talking points.

Trump's policies weren't very good and the ones that were didn't go far enough. But he did one thing with radical leftist fascism and racism and stealing elections that you keep making excuses for. Trump fought back.

At this point the best thing we can do for our liberty is fight the left. And you still struggle to figure out how you are different from them. Leftists on the board don't know how you're different from them either

So you don't like the democratic party line.
Fine, I don't either.
But that is because I am a far left, progressive, liberal, and the democratic party has been
Left, progressive, and liberal means anti-war, regulating banks, regulating corporations, and public financed joint social obligations like health care, education, transportation, etc.

You used "totalitarian" and "fascist", but those terms only refer to right wing policies of an oligarchy. They do not apply to left wing political beliefs. Left wing means low level, local, populist government that emphasizes individual rights and liberties.
Right wing by definition means Laissez fair capitalism, with unregulated banks, and corporations, and the wealthy elite in control of everything. Left is decentralized and popular, while right is centralized by the wealthy.

But that is because I am a far left, progressive, liberal, and the democratic party has been pro war, pro banks, pro private health insurance, etc.

Far left fascists have always been pro war, pro banks, pro private big bidness, etc....Just as long as they play ball with The State...The neoliberal "left" and neocon "right" are in the same far left fascist team.

Right wing by definition means Laissez fair (sic) capitalism, with unregulated banks, and corporations, and the wealthy elite in control of everything. Left is decentralized and popular, while right is centralized by the wealthy.

Then you don't know the definition of laissez-faire.

What we have now is the Big Corporate elite supporting the hard left....It is you who are in favor of total central control and the wealthy elite (Bezos, Gates, Buffett, Soros, Delta, Coca-Cola, Disney) in charge of damn near everything.

I suggest to you a crash course in self-awareness, dude.

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