An Informal Debate on Race Relations in the United States Including Its History

[freyasman]

Her mind is not closed but yours is. The same attitude of white racial superiority exists now as it did in the beginning.

You are a dishonest, manipulative race-pimp.
You are not asking for equality, you want to be in charge.

The answer is "No."

So fuck off.

 

[IM2]

On July 28, 1967, President Lyndon Johnson established the National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders. The more common name for this commission is The Kerner Commission. This commission was tasked to answer three basic questions pertaining to the racial unrest in American cities: What happened? Why did it happen? What can be done to prevent it from happening again? It is common knowledge how the commission deemed that two separate Americas existed, one for whites, the other for blacks.

“What white Americans have never fully understood but what the Negro can never forget--is that white society is deeply implicated in the ghetto. White institutions created it, white institutions maintain it, and white society condones it. It is time now to turn with all the purpose at our command to the major unfinished business of this nation. It is time to adopt strategies for action that will produce quick and visible progress. It is time to make good the promises of American democracy to all citizens-urban and rural, white and black, Spanish-surname, American Indian, and every minority group.”

Kerner Commission Report​

On February 26, 2018, 50 years after the Kerner Commission findings, the Economic Policy Institute published a report evaluating the progress of the black community since the Kerner Report was released. It was based on a study done by the Economic Policy Institute that compared the progress of the black community with the condition of the black community at the time of the Kerner Commission. Titled “50 years after the Kerner Commission,” the study’s central premise was that there had been some improvements in the situation blacks faced but there were still disadvantages blacks faced that were based on race.

Here are some of the findings.

African Americans today are much better educated than they were in 1968 but still lag behind whites in overall educational attainment. More than 90 percent of younger African Americans (ages 25 to 29) have graduated from high school, compared with just over half in 1968—which means they’ve nearly closed the gap with white high school graduation rates. They are also more than twice as likely to have a college degree as in 1968 but are still half as likely as young whites to have a college degree.

The substantial progress in educational attainment of African Americans has been accompanied by significant absolute improvements in wages, incomes, wealth, and health since 1968. But black workers still make only 82.5 cents on every dollar earned by white workers, African Americans are 2.5 times as likely to be in poverty as whites, and the median white family has almost 10 times as much wealth as the median black family.

With respect to homeownership, unemployment, and incarceration, America has failed to deliver any progress for African Americans over the last five decades. In these areas, their situation has either failed to improve relative to whites or has worsened. In 2017 the black unemployment rate was 7.5 percent, up from 6.7 percent in 1968, and is still roughly twice the white unemployment rate. In 2015, the black homeownership rate was just over 40 percent, virtually unchanged since 1968, and trailing a full 30 points behind the white homeownership rate, which saw modest gains over the same period. And the share of African Americans in prison or jail almost tripled between 1968 and 2016 and is currently more than six times the white incarceration rate.

Following up on this, Richard Rothstein of the Economic Policy Institute, wrote an op ed published in the February 28th edition of the New York Daily News entitled, “50 years after the Kerner Commission, minimal racial progress.” It had been 50 years since the commission made those recommendations at that point, yet Rothstein makes this statement: “So little has changed since 1968 that the report remains worth reading as a near-contemporary description of racial inequality.” There is a reason little has changed.

The commission recommended solutions based on the following 3 principles: “To mount programs on a scale equal to the dimension of the problems. To aim these programs for high impact in the immediate future in order to close the gap between promise and performance. To undertake new initiatives and experiments that can change the system of failure and frustration that now dominates the ghetto and weakens our society.” With all due respect, I do not believe the members of the commission truly understood the real size of the problem. As of today, principle number 1 has yet to be met.

In order for a societal problem to be solved there must be a will consensual among all to solve the problem by any means necessary. Not by a half measure here and a half measure there. Principle number 1 was to create programs equal to the dimension of the problem. That’s a laudable goal, but the dimension of the problem in 1967 was 191 years of denied income, education, housing and wages. What series of programs could be proposed to a nation where half the people believed that “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice?”

“These programs will require unprecedented levels of funding and performance, but they neither probe deeper nor demand more than the problems which called them forth. There can be no higher priority for national action and no higher claim on the nation's conscience.”

Kerner Commission Report​

And so here you have it. Suddenly a nation that had felt it unnecessary to provide equal funding, facilities, housing or income even as the supreme court in 1897 determined it was fine to be separate if everything else was equal, a nation still fighting against the Brown decision by using state laws, a nation that had just decided to allow blacks the free access to the ballot and public accommodations, was going to appropriate billions of dollars to fix an almost 200 year old problem. It has yet to be done.

As a result of this study the commission identified 12 `grievances common in the communities they visited: “1. Police practices 2. Unemployment and underemployment 3. Inadequate housing. 4. Inadequate education 5. Poor recreation facilities and programs 6. Ineffectiveness of the political structure and grievance mechanisms. 7. Disrespectful white attitudes 8. Discriminatory administration of justice 9. Inadequacy of federal programs 10. Inadequacy of municipal services 11. Discriminatory consumer and credit practices 12. Inadequate welfare programs. “

You would be hard pressed to say these grievances do not still exist. The Kerner Commission was tasked to find out why the racial unrest happened. Instead of blaming blacks for being angry about the way they were treated, instead of inventing terms like victim mentality, the commission took a long hard look at American societal issues. The bottom line is that the Kerner Commission determined in 1968 what blacks already knew and what whites refused to hear. This quote from Nathaniel Jones Assistant General Counsel for the Commission says it all, “One of the conclusions of the Kerner Report was that white racism was at work, was the cause of the upsets and the uprisings that we had. In fact, the report stated that white society created it, perpetuates it, and sustains it.” In other words, “The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism.” It was that conclusion that made it possible for white America to ignore the findings. Once whites felt as if they were to blame for the conditions of black people in America, they resisted the findings in this study. President Johnson called for the study and never implemented the suggested actions. He wasted government money by increasing spending on the Vietnam war and claimed he did not have the money to implement the types of programs suggested in the report.

Had that not been done many of the issues blacks face today would be reduced or eliminated. The Kerner Commission report is perhaps the finest study done on race in the history of this nation. As I wrote earlier, there is a reason why Rothstein came to his conclusion. We are now 52 years past the Kerner Commission findings. There has been little progress because at no level of government or society has America met even the first principle of the Kerner Commission.

“To mount programs on a scale equal to the dimension of the problems.”​

 

[IM2]

You are a dishonest, manipulative race-pimp.
You are not asking for equality, you want to be in charge.

The answer is "No."

So fuck off.

I am retired. I don't want to be in charge of anything. I've already done that. 30 years worth. You are a sad, pathetic white man suffering from white fragility. Until you turn black, it's time you shut up and listen. You don't have any black relatives so stop lying.

 

[OldLady]

Can I invite him in?

And telling me I must "shut my mouth and listen" is a blatant attempt to silence others...... fuck that, fuck you, fuck the horse you rode in on, and fuck everybody in the Yellow Pages with the same last name as you.

Nobody tells me to shut up unless they are willing to kill or die over it.
That's how strongly I feel about that.


If that "community" wants to better itself they can, right now and today, with no help from anyone else, stop having kids out of wedlock...... fatherless kids do worse by every metric there is.
You want shit to be better? Then fucking make it better.

And telling me I must "shut my mouth and listen" is a blatant attempt to silence others...... fuck that, fuck you, fuck the horse you rode in on, and fuck everybody in the Yellow Pages with the same last name as you.

Nobody tells me to shut up unless they are willing to kill or die over it.
That's how strongly I feel about that.


If that "community" wants to better itself they can, right now and today, with no help from anyone else, stop having kids out of wedlock...... fatherless kids do worse by every metric there is.
You want shit to be better? Then fucking make it better.

Can I invite him in?

I think only Mariyam can do that. You're doing fine without him.

 

[freyasman]

On July 28, 1967, President Lyndon Johnson established the National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders. The more common name for this commission is The Kerner Commission. This commission was tasked to answer three basic questions pertaining to the racial unrest in American cities: What happened? Why did it happen? What can be done to prevent it from happening again? It is common knowledge how the commission deemed that two separate Americas existed, one for whites, the other for blacks.

“What white Americans have never fully understood but what the Negro can never forget--is that white society is deeply implicated in the ghetto. White institutions created it, white institutions maintain it, and white society condones it. It is time now to turn with all the purpose at our command to the major unfinished business of this nation. It is time to adopt strategies for action that will produce quick and visible progress. It is time to make good the promises of American democracy to all citizens-urban and rural, white and black, Spanish-surname, American Indian, and every minority group.”

Kerner Commission Report​

On February 26, 2018, 50 years after the Kerner Commission findings, the Economic Policy Institute published a report evaluating the progress of the black community since the Kerner Report was released. It was based on a study done by the Economic Policy Institute that compared the progress of the black community with the condition of the black community at the time of the Kerner Commission. Titled “50 years after the Kerner Commission,” the study’s central premise was that there had been some improvements in the situation blacks faced but there were still disadvantages blacks faced that were based on race.

Here are some of the findings.

African Americans today are much better educated than they were in 1968 but still lag behind whites in overall educational attainment. More than 90 percent of younger African Americans (ages 25 to 29) have graduated from high school, compared with just over half in 1968—which means they’ve nearly closed the gap with white high school graduation rates. They are also more than twice as likely to have a college degree as in 1968 but are still half as likely as young whites to have a college degree.

The substantial progress in educational attainment of African Americans has been accompanied by significant absolute improvements in wages, incomes, wealth, and health since 1968. But black workers still make only 82.5 cents on every dollar earned by white workers, African Americans are 2.5 times as likely to be in poverty as whites, and the median white family has almost 10 times as much wealth as the median black family.

With respect to homeownership, unemployment, and incarceration, America has failed to deliver any progress for African Americans over the last five decades. In these areas, their situation has either failed to improve relative to whites or has worsened. In 2017 the black unemployment rate was 7.5 percent, up from 6.7 percent in 1968, and is still roughly twice the white unemployment rate. In 2015, the black homeownership rate was just over 40 percent, virtually unchanged since 1968, and trailing a full 30 points behind the white homeownership rate, which saw modest gains over the same period. And the share of African Americans in prison or jail almost tripled between 1968 and 2016 and is currently more than six times the white incarceration rate.

Following up on this, Richard Rothstein of the Economic Policy Institute, wrote an op ed published in the February 28th edition of the New York Daily News entitled, “50 years after the Kerner Commission, minimal racial progress.” It had been 50 years since the commission made those recommendations at that point, yet Rothstein makes this statement: “So little has changed since 1968 that the report remains worth reading as a near-contemporary description of racial inequality.” There is a reason little has changed.

The commission recommended solutions based on the following 3 principles: “To mount programs on a scale equal to the dimension of the problems. To aim these programs for high impact in the immediate future in order to close the gap between promise and performance. To undertake new initiatives and experiments that can change the system of failure and frustration that now dominates the ghetto and weakens our society.” With all due respect, I do not believe the members of the commission truly understood the real size of the problem. As of today, principle number 1 has yet to be met.

In order for a societal problem to be solved there must be a will consensual among all to solve the problem by any means necessary. Not by a half measure here and a half measure there. Principle number 1 was to create programs equal to the dimension of the problem. That’s a laudable goal, but the dimension of the problem in 1967 was 191 years of denied income, education, housing and wages. What series of programs could be proposed to a nation where half the people believed that “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice?”

“These programs will require unprecedented levels of funding and performance, but they neither probe deeper nor demand more than the problems which called them forth. There can be no higher priority for national action and no higher claim on the nation's conscience.”

Kerner Commission Report​

And so here you have it. Suddenly a nation that had felt it unnecessary to provide equal funding, facilities, housing or income even as the supreme court in 1897 determined it was fine to be separate if everything else was equal, a nation still fighting against the Brown decision by using state laws, a nation that had just decided to allow blacks the free access to the ballot and public accommodations, was going to appropriate billions of dollars to fix an almost 200 year old problem. It has yet to be done.

As a result of this study the commission identified 12 `grievances common in the communities they visited: “1. Police practices 2. Unemployment and underemployment 3. Inadequate housing. 4. Inadequate education 5. Poor recreation facilities and programs 6. Ineffectiveness of the political structure and grievance mechanisms. 7. Disrespectful white attitudes 8. Discriminatory administration of justice 9. Inadequacy of federal programs 10. Inadequacy of municipal services 11. Discriminatory consumer and credit practices 12. Inadequate welfare programs. “

You would be hard pressed to say these grievances do not still exist. The Kerner Commission was tasked to find out why the racial unrest happened. Instead of blaming blacks for being angry about the way they were treated, instead of inventing terms like victim mentality, the commission took a long hard look at American societal issues. The bottom line is that the Kerner Commission determined in 1968 what blacks already knew and what whites refused to hear. This quote from Nathaniel Jones Assistant General Counsel for the Commission says it all, “One of the conclusions of the Kerner Report was that white racism was at work, was the cause of the upsets and the uprisings that we had. In fact, the report stated that white society created it, perpetuates it, and sustains it.” In other words, “The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism.” It was that conclusion that made it possible for white America to ignore the findings. Once whites felt as if they were to blame for the conditions of black people in America, they resisted the findings in this study. President Johnson called for the study and never implemented the suggested actions. He wasted government money by increasing spending on the Vietnam war and claimed he did not have the money to implement the types of programs suggested in the report.

Had that not been done many of the issues blacks face today would be reduced or eliminated. The Kerner Commission report is perhaps the finest study done on race in the history of this nation. As I wrote earlier, there is a reason why Rothstein came to his conclusion. We are now 52 years past the Kerner Commission findings. There has been little progress because at no level of government or society has America met even the first principle of the Kerner Commission.

“To mount programs on a scale equal to the dimension of the problems.”​

Blah, blah, blah.....

So get off your ass and get to work already.

 

[OldLady]

And telling me I must "shut my mouth and listen" is a blatant attempt to silence others.

Yammering away in your angry fashion is silencing the people who are trying to get whites to listen. You aren't going to silence me with your insults, but it sure is hard to listen to anyone when you're running your mouth, isn't it?

I think Mariyam wanted this to be a discussion without insults. At least in the callout thread where she invited you, that's one of the rules she set. If she wanted this to be a typical discussion in the race forum, she would have just had it there. She would probably appreciate it if everyone would put their tempers in check and stick to the argument. That is why God made the delete key. I use it a lot. Try it.

 

[freyasman]

I am retired. I don't want to be in charge of anything. I've already done that. 30 years worth. You are a sad, pathetic white man suffering from white fragility. Until you turn black, it's time you shut up and listen. You don't have any black relatives so stop lying.

I been married to a black woman for over 30 years, and half my family is black, lol.

Side note about that, I have noticed that black women treat the white and hispanic men they date or marry, much better than they do black men..... do you know why that is?
I been wondering about that.

 

[IM2]

Let's go back to the origin of the idea of white supremacy.

Generally when we talk about entitlement, it is usually with disdain because as a country we have informed ourselves that no one is entitled to anything but the right to work hard and to earn your place on the merits. Yet there are plenty of examples that show us this is just simply not the truth and maybe now that we have reached the 21st century and are well into it, that we start being truthful. Sub groups within the white community want to blame minority groups for having an entitlement mentality because of laws that eliminated segregation and racist policies, or at least reduced them in practice to such a level that nonwhites can at least try competing in the system.

These are not entitlements. They are policies and laws put in place to guarantee equal protection under the law for nonwhites who were not getting those protections before the laws were made. Entitlement is a little different from that. Per Merriam Webster, the full definition of entitlement is:

State or condition of being entitled. A right to benefits specified by law or contract. A government program providing benefits to a specific group. Belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges.

Let us start with the first part of the definition: State or condition of being entitled. The system in America is built upon white racial superiority. What made whites believe they were superior therefore entitled to things that others were not? What made the whites from Europe decide they had the right to invade this continent and create a government when governments were already here?

After doing a lot of reading, it appears that we must take ourselves back to the era of what was called the Age of Enlightenment. Now I don’t know just exactly who was enlightened by these ideas, because to people who weren’t of European descent the era had nothing to do with being “enlightened.” In fact, Europeans were not enlightened either. This era was also called the Age of Reason, but what came out of this age were some of the most unreasoned and crazed ideas in the history of mankind. This era supposedly advanced ideals like liberty, progress, tolerance, fraternity, constitutional government, along with separation of church and state. But it also fostered the ideals of scientific racism. That “reason and enlightenment” came equipped with philosophies steeped in racism. As usual half of the story is not told to promote some great ideal of superiority of thought and reason based on the European or white ideal. However, the top thinkers of the time held ideas or beliefs such as this:

“I am apt to suspect the negroes and in general all other species of men (for there are four or five different kinds) to be naturally inferior to the whites. There never was a civilized nation of any other complexion than white, nor even any individual eminent either in action or speculation. No ingenious manufactures amongst them, no arts, no sciences. On the other hand, the most rude and barbarous of the whites, such as the ancient GERMANS, the present TARTARS, have still something eminent about them in their valour, form of government, or some other particular. Such a uniform and constant differences could not happen in so many countries and ages, if nature had not made an original distinction betwixt these breeds of men. Not to mention our colonies, there are Negroe slaves dispersed all over Europe, of which none ever discovered any symptoms of ingenuity, tho' low people, without education, will start up amonst us, and distinguish themselves in every profession. In JAMAICA indeed they talk of one negroe as a man of parts and learning; but 'tis likely he is admired for very slender accomplishments like a parrot, who speaks a few words plainly. “

David Hume, “Of National Characters”​

Manu Musa might have disagreed with this assessment. So would have multiple leaders in Asia and Indigenous leaders in what is North and South America. Hume was not the only one with this flawed belief. Immanuel Kant was one of the earliest advocates of scientific racism and considered the greatest thinker of the times. This is how misguided we have been relative to our educations in this and other western societies. The excuse of that’s how they thought at the time has been used as defense for his racism.

In three separate works Kant claimed that the Negro is, in most respects, the lowest of all races. He also referred to blacks as the “bad race” and whites as “the good race,” argued that the white race contains “all incentives and talents,” and felt that whites were the “only ones who always progress toward perfection.”

To my knowledge, Kant never repudiated any of these explicitly racist claims.

Ryan Very, Kant’s Racism, www.academia.edu, 2012​

Murder was wrong in those days but no one will excuse people who murdered others during the so called age of enlightenment because that’s just how they did things then. As you read what was believed, if this was enlightenment then just how dark were the dark ages? This must be asked after you read about racial classifications that include dwarfs, giants and troglodytes. Whites really need to quit making excuses for this because it is from these ideas that the very problems we face today relative to racism or ethnocentrism come from.

Kants ideas, that the European white was the only race capable of self-improvement and highest level of civilization, were widely accepted. These ideas created the belief in European superiority that we still see today couched under a newer descriptive term called western civilization. Kant and Hume were not alone in this belief. My goal here is not to go into a deep discussion of enlightenment philosophy or scientific racism. However the term scientific racism itself explains the prevailing thoughts in Europe during this time. Therefore it’s basic premise should be exposed and understood as to how it created a belief of entitlement and privilege among whites that continues until the present.

Simply put, scientific racism is the use of scientific theories to justify racial superiority or inferiority. It creates a belief in the natural or genetic superiority of a race. Scientific racism as a belief or ideology has been a problem from the 1600’s and lasted as a respected scientific belief until just after World War 2. One can argue that such beliefs still exist today among specific segments of the world wide white community. Scientific racism is more bluntly put, racist propaganda.

A long line of European thinkers supported this and expanded it. Voltaire is given credit as an advocate for civil liberties, yet Voltaire had a racial hierarchy where blacks were lower than whites and ranked just above oysters. Benjamin Rush, a founding father of this country, believed that being black meant you had a skin disease. He even had a name for it, Negroidism. He believed that people born black had a form of leprosy that could be cured. In every instance of trying to provide this “scientific” understanding of cultural differences and skin complexion whites always gave themselves top billing as being more advanced.

I almost forgot this one, Madison Grant. While some in the area of environment may see Grant as a great man, had he stuck to his work in that field, perhaps I could agree. But he didn’t. Grant is hailed as one of the great progressives of his time. Such praise creates concern about progressives as Grant is also praised by the founder of American Renaissance as a tireless advocate for racialism.

Madison Grant promoted scientific racism for his entire adult life. He was active in the eugenics movement of that time. So was eventual British Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill and David Starr Jordan, founder of Stanford University. But it is Grants work contained in a book, “The Passing of the Great Race: Or, The Racial Basis of European History,” written in 1916 that influences us even until today.

In this book Grant promotes the Nordic Theory of racial supremacy also used by Hitler in his “final solution.” Grants work was instrumental in the formulation of various intelligence tests to include the SAT. Scientific racism still impacts us today on most Saturday mornings from 8 am until noon at various testing sites.

The problem here lies in the fact this propaganda was believed for over 300 years and put into practice in ways that created damage which are part of world problems today. Influential Europeans during this time put it into practice by colonizing nations based upon their supposed inherent racial superiority. Europeans felt they were entitled to this based upon their being the only people who could create and appreciate what ‘civilization’ was supposed to be.

 

[freyasman]

I think only Mariyam can do that. You're doing fine without him.

Okay.

 

[IM2]

I been married to a black woman for over 30 years, and half my family is black, lol.

Side note about that, I have noticed that black women treat the white and hispanic men they date or marry, much better than they do black men..... do you know why that is?
I been wondering about that.

I haven't seen that and your personal life is your business. We are talking about the American system here and you seem to have a problem with black people.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Well this thread went to shit fast.
Here is my surprise look.......

 

[freyasman]

Yammering away in your angry fashion is silencing the people who are trying to get whites to listen. You aren't going to silence me with your insults, but it sure is hard to listen to anyone when you're running your mouth, isn't it?

I think Mariyam wanted this to be a discussion without insults. At least in the callout thread where she invited you, that's one of the rules she set. If she wanted this to be a typical discussion in the race forum, she would have just had it there. She would probably appreciate it if everyone would put their tempers in check and stick to the argument. That is why God made the delete key. I use it a lot. Try it.

I am not trying to silence anyone, you go ahead and say what you want but I damn well can reply. I do not have to "shut up", and how fucking dare you ask me to?
I hope my response illustrates just how offensive I found your attitude to be.

 

[OldLady]

Okay, that was a bunch of sniveling bullshit.

Show me this "black community" that is doing all this whining, would you?
Because my uncles and cousins don't ever complain about this, and after 30 years of drinking with them, even if they were holding back, I would think something would have slipped out..... in vino veritas, and all.

I think this comes from a minority within a minority, some of whom are simply worthless, and others who are trying to guilt, shame, and manipulate others into letting them into a position of advantage...... fuck those race-pimping losers. Who elected them as spokesmen for the "black community"?

Some people are real uninterested in politics. But a lot of other people are. Is politics always a game of King of the Hill? Maybe. If the person at the top refuses to share, for sure.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I am fascinated

Whites have been given free land, free education, guaranteed home loans, and every opportunity

can someone DEFINE "whites" . My skin is so white that it's color is dependent on the blood beneath----ie I AM PINK I never got free land------and did not finish paying my school loans until I was 50. Long ago---when I was in college, I had a friend whose had a FULL SCHOLARSHIP-----because she was an african american. I spent more than two years in court trying to remove two squatters living on my property----they never paid the rental fee and and BY LAW I had to supply them with all utilities. They were not "white". Can someone DEFINE "white"

there are many "colleges" that specialize in flunking students and taking government grants to do just that.
Let's see a raise of hands in how many of you know there are colleges that have over 90% fail rate? Anyone?
You would think this would be identified and those schools examined as to why they have such extraordinary fail rates.
But instead of doing that - the government keeps INCREASING the funds - so the schools just keep right on taking the money and failing students. NO ONE IS INTERESTED IN SOLVING THE PROBLEM.

 

[IM2]

I am fascinated

Whites have been given free land, free education, guaranteed home loans, and every opportunity

can someone DEFINE "whites" . My skin is so white that it's color is dependent on the blood beneath----ie I AM PINK I never got free land------and did not finish paying my school loans until I was 50. Long ago---when I was in college, I had a friend whose had a FULL SCHOLARSHIP-----because she was an african american. I spent more than two years in court trying to remove two squatters living on my property----they never paid the rental fee and and BY LAW I had to supply them with all utilities. They were not "white". Can someone DEFINE "white"

Sorry but we won't be playing silly games today..

RACE - The Power of an Illusion
BACKGROUND:

A Long History of Affirmative Action - For Whites

Many middle-class white people, especially those of us from the suburbs, like to think that we got to where we are today by virtue of our merit - hard work, intelligence, pluck, and maybe a little luck. And while we may be sympathetic to the plight of others, we close down when we hear the words "affirmative action" or "racial preferences." We worked hard, we made it on our own, the thinking goes, why don't 'they'? After all, the Civil Rights Act was enacted almost 40 years ago.

What we don't readily acknowledge is that racial preferences have a long, institutional history in this country - a white history. Here are a few ways in which government programs and practices have channeled wealth and opportunities to white people at the expense of others.

Early Racial Preferences

We all know the old history, but it's still worth reminding ourselves of its scale and scope. Affirmative action in the American "workplace" first began in the late 17th century when European indentured servants - the original source of unfree labor on the new tobacco plantations of Virginia and Maryland - were replaced by African slaves. In exchange for their support and their policing of the growing slave population, lower-class Europeans won new rights, entitlements, and opportunities from the planter elite.

White Americans were also given a head start with the help of the U.S. Army. The 1830 Indian Removal Act, for example, forcibly relocated Cherokee, Creeks and other eastern Indians to west of the Mississippi River to make room for white settlers. The 1862 Homestead Act followed suit, giving away millions of acres of what had been Indian Territory west of the Mississippi. Ultimately, 270 million acres, or 10% of the total land area of the United States, was converted to private hands, overwhelmingly white, under Homestead Act provisions.

The 1790 Naturalization Act permitted only "free white persons" to become naturalized citizens, thus opening the doors to European immigrants but not others. Only citizens could vote, serve on juries, hold office, and in some cases, even hold property. In this century, Alien Land Laws passed in California and other states, reserved farm land for white growers by preventing Asian immigrants, ineligible to become citizens, from owning or leasing land. Immigration restrictions further limited opportunities for nonwhite groups. Racial barriers to naturalized U.S. citizenship weren't removed until the McCarran-Walter Act in 1952, and white racial preferences in immigration remained until 1965.

In the South, the federal government never followed through on General Sherman's Civil War plan to divide up plantations and give each freed slave "40 acres and a mule" as reparations. Only once was monetary compensation made for slavery, in Washington, D.C. There, government officials paid up to $300 per slave upon emancipation - not to the slaves, but to local slaveholders as compensation for loss of property.

When slavery ended, its legacy lived on not only in the impoverished condition of Black people but in the wealth and prosperity that accrued to white slaveowners and their descendents. Economists who try to place a dollar value on how much white Americans have profited from 200 years of unpaid slave labor, including interest, begin their estimates at $1 trillion.

Jim Crow laws, instituted in the late 19th and early 20th century and not overturned in many states until the 1960s, reserved the best jobs, neighborhoods, schools and hospitals for white people.

The Advantages Grow, Generation to Generation

Less known are more recent government racial preferences, first enacted during the New Deal, that directed wealth to white families and continue to shape life opportunities and chances.

The landmark Social Security Act of 1935 provided a safety net for millions of workers, guaranteeing them an income after retirement. But the act specifically excluded two occupations: agricultural workers and domestic servants, who were predominately African American, Mexican, and Asian. As low-income workers, they also had the least opportunity to save for their retirement. They couldn't pass wealth on to their children. Just the opposite. Their children had to support them.

Like Social Security, the 1935 Wagner Act helped establish an important new right for white people. By granting unions the power of collective bargaining, it helped millions of white workers gain entry into the middle class over the next 30 years. But the Wagner Act permitted unions to exclude non-whites and deny them access to better paid jobs and union protections and benefits such as health care, job security, and pensions. Many craft unions remained nearly all-white well into the 1970s. In 1972, for example, every single one of the 3,000 members of Los Angeles Steam Fitters Local #250 was still white.

But it was another racialized New Deal program, the Federal Housing Administration, that helped generate much of the wealth that so many white families enjoy today. These revolutionary programs made it possible for millions of average white Americans - but not others - to own a home for the first time. The government set up a national neighborhood appraisal system, explicitly tying mortgage eligibility to race. Integrated communities were ipso facto deemed a financial risk and made ineligible for home loans, a policy known today as "redlining." Between 1934 and 1962, the federal government backed $120 billion of home loans. More than 98% went to whites. Of the 350,000 new homes built with federal support in northern California between 1946 and 1960, fewer than 100 went to African Americans.

These government programs made possible the new segregated white suburbs that sprang up around the country after World War II. Government subsidies for municipal services helped develop and enhance these suburbs further, in turn fueling commercial investments. Freeways tied the new suburbs to central business districts, but they often cut through and destroyed the vitality of non-white neighborhoods in the central city.

Today, Black and Latino mortgage applicants are still 60% more likely than whites to be turned down for a loan, even after controlling for employment, financial, and neighborhood factors. According to the Census, whites are more likely to be segregated than any other group. As recently as 1993, 86% of suburban whites still lived in neighborhoods with a black population of less than 1%.

Reaping the Rewards of Racial Preference

One result of the generations of preferential treatment for whites is that a typical white family today has on average eight times the assets, or net worth, of a typical African American family, according to economist Edward Wolff. Even when families of the same income are compared, white families have more than twice the wealth of Black families. Much of that wealth difference can be attributed to the value of one's home, and how much one inherited from parents.

But a family's net worth is not simply the finish line, it's also the starting point for the next generation. Those with wealth pass their assets on to their children - by financing a college education, lending a hand during hard times, or assisting with the down payment for a home. Some economists estimate that up to 80 percent of lifetime wealth accumulation depends on these intergenerational transfers. White advantage is passed down, from parent to child to grand-child. As a result, the racial wealth gap - and the head start enjoyed by whites - appears to have grown since the civil rights days.

In 1865, just after Emancipation, it is not surprising that African Americans owned 0.5 percent of the total worth of the United States. But by 1990, a full 135 years after the abolition of slavery, Black Americans still possessed only a meager 1 percent of national wealth.

Rather than recognize how "racial preferences" have tilted the playing field and given us a head start in life, many whites continue to believe that race does not affect our lives. Instead, we chastise others for not achieving what we have; we even invert the situation and accuse non-whites of using "the race card" to advance themselves.

Or we suggest that differential outcomes may simply result from differences in "natural" ability or motivation. However, sociologist Dalton Conley's research shows that when we compare the performance of families across racial lines who make not just the same income, but also hold similar net worth, a very interesting thing happens: many of the racial disparities in education, graduation rates, welfare usage and other outcomes disappear. The "performance gap" between whites and nonwhites is a product not of nature, but unequal circumstances.

Colorblind policies that treat everyone the same, no exceptions for minorities, are often counter-posed against affirmative action. But colorblindness today merely bolsters the unfair advantages that color-coded practices have enabled white Americans to long accumulate.

It's a little late in the game to say that race shouldn't matter.

RACE - The Power of an Illusion | White Advantage

 

[freyasman]

I haven't seen that and your personal life is your business. We are talking about the American system here and you seem to have a problem with black people.

No, I have a problem with people like you who clearly hate people based on skin color and want power over others.
People like you aren't to be trusted..... ever. You are always scheming to take advantage over others.

 

[freyasman]

Sorry but we won't be playing silly games today..

RACE - The Power of an Illusion
BACKGROUND:

A Long History of Affirmative Action - For Whites

Many middle-class white people, especially those of us from the suburbs, like to think that we got to where we are today by virtue of our merit - hard work, intelligence, pluck, and maybe a little luck. And while we may be sympathetic to the plight of others, we close down when we hear the words "affirmative action" or "racial preferences." We worked hard, we made it on our own, the thinking goes, why don't 'they'? After all, the Civil Rights Act was enacted almost 40 years ago.

What we don't readily acknowledge is that racial preferences have a long, institutional history in this country - a white history. Here are a few ways in which government programs and practices have channeled wealth and opportunities to white people at the expense of others.

Early Racial Preferences

We all know the old history, but it's still worth reminding ourselves of its scale and scope. Affirmative action in the American "workplace" first began in the late 17th century when European indentured servants - the original source of unfree labor on the new tobacco plantations of Virginia and Maryland - were replaced by African slaves. In exchange for their support and their policing of the growing slave population, lower-class Europeans won new rights, entitlements, and opportunities from the planter elite.

White Americans were also given a head start with the help of the U.S. Army. The 1830 Indian Removal Act, for example, forcibly relocated Cherokee, Creeks and other eastern Indians to west of the Mississippi River to make room for white settlers. The 1862 Homestead Act followed suit, giving away millions of acres of what had been Indian Territory west of the Mississippi. Ultimately, 270 million acres, or 10% of the total land area of the United States, was converted to private hands, overwhelmingly white, under Homestead Act provisions.

The 1790 Naturalization Act permitted only "free white persons" to become naturalized citizens, thus opening the doors to European immigrants but not others. Only citizens could vote, serve on juries, hold office, and in some cases, even hold property. In this century, Alien Land Laws passed in California and other states, reserved farm land for white growers by preventing Asian immigrants, ineligible to become citizens, from owning or leasing land. Immigration restrictions further limited opportunities for nonwhite groups. Racial barriers to naturalized U.S. citizenship weren't removed until the McCarran-Walter Act in 1952, and white racial preferences in immigration remained until 1965.

In the South, the federal government never followed through on General Sherman's Civil War plan to divide up plantations and give each freed slave "40 acres and a mule" as reparations. Only once was monetary compensation made for slavery, in Washington, D.C. There, government officials paid up to $300 per slave upon emancipation - not to the slaves, but to local slaveholders as compensation for loss of property.

When slavery ended, its legacy lived on not only in the impoverished condition of Black people but in the wealth and prosperity that accrued to white slaveowners and their descendents. Economists who try to place a dollar value on how much white Americans have profited from 200 years of unpaid slave labor, including interest, begin their estimates at $1 trillion.

Jim Crow laws, instituted in the late 19th and early 20th century and not overturned in many states until the 1960s, reserved the best jobs, neighborhoods, schools and hospitals for white people.

The Advantages Grow, Generation to Generation

Less known are more recent government racial preferences, first enacted during the New Deal, that directed wealth to white families and continue to shape life opportunities and chances.

The landmark Social Security Act of 1935 provided a safety net for millions of workers, guaranteeing them an income after retirement. But the act specifically excluded two occupations: agricultural workers and domestic servants, who were predominately African American, Mexican, and Asian. As low-income workers, they also had the least opportunity to save for their retirement. They couldn't pass wealth on to their children. Just the opposite. Their children had to support them.

Like Social Security, the 1935 Wagner Act helped establish an important new right for white people. By granting unions the power of collective bargaining, it helped millions of white workers gain entry into the middle class over the next 30 years. But the Wagner Act permitted unions to exclude non-whites and deny them access to better paid jobs and union protections and benefits such as health care, job security, and pensions. Many craft unions remained nearly all-white well into the 1970s. In 1972, for example, every single one of the 3,000 members of Los Angeles Steam Fitters Local #250 was still white.

But it was another racialized New Deal program, the Federal Housing Administration, that helped generate much of the wealth that so many white families enjoy today. These revolutionary programs made it possible for millions of average white Americans - but not others - to own a home for the first time. The government set up a national neighborhood appraisal system, explicitly tying mortgage eligibility to race. Integrated communities were ipso facto deemed a financial risk and made ineligible for home loans, a policy known today as "redlining." Between 1934 and 1962, the federal government backed $120 billion of home loans. More than 98% went to whites. Of the 350,000 new homes built with federal support in northern California between 1946 and 1960, fewer than 100 went to African Americans.

These government programs made possible the new segregated white suburbs that sprang up around the country after World War II. Government subsidies for municipal services helped develop and enhance these suburbs further, in turn fueling commercial investments. Freeways tied the new suburbs to central business districts, but they often cut through and destroyed the vitality of non-white neighborhoods in the central city.

Today, Black and Latino mortgage applicants are still 60% more likely than whites to be turned down for a loan, even after controlling for employment, financial, and neighborhood factors. According to the Census, whites are more likely to be segregated than any other group. As recently as 1993, 86% of suburban whites still lived in neighborhoods with a black population of less than 1%.

Reaping the Rewards of Racial Preference

One result of the generations of preferential treatment for whites is that a typical white family today has on average eight times the assets, or net worth, of a typical African American family, according to economist Edward Wolff. Even when families of the same income are compared, white families have more than twice the wealth of Black families. Much of that wealth difference can be attributed to the value of one's home, and how much one inherited from parents.

But a family's net worth is not simply the finish line, it's also the starting point for the next generation. Those with wealth pass their assets on to their children - by financing a college education, lending a hand during hard times, or assisting with the down payment for a home. Some economists estimate that up to 80 percent of lifetime wealth accumulation depends on these intergenerational transfers. White advantage is passed down, from parent to child to grand-child. As a result, the racial wealth gap - and the head start enjoyed by whites - appears to have grown since the civil rights days.

In 1865, just after Emancipation, it is not surprising that African Americans owned 0.5 percent of the total worth of the United States. But by 1990, a full 135 years after the abolition of slavery, Black Americans still possessed only a meager 1 percent of national wealth.

Rather than recognize how "racial preferences" have tilted the playing field and given us a head start in life, many whites continue to believe that race does not affect our lives. Instead, we chastise others for not achieving what we have; we even invert the situation and accuse non-whites of using "the race card" to advance themselves.

Or we suggest that differential outcomes may simply result from differences in "natural" ability or motivation. However, sociologist Dalton Conley's research shows that when we compare the performance of families across racial lines who make not just the same income, but also hold similar net worth, a very interesting thing happens: many of the racial disparities in education, graduation rates, welfare usage and other outcomes disappear. The "performance gap" between whites and nonwhites is a product not of nature, but unequal circumstances.

Colorblind policies that treat everyone the same, no exceptions for minorities, are often counter-posed against affirmative action. But colorblindness today merely bolsters the unfair advantages that color-coded practices have enabled white Americans to long accumulate.

It's a little late in the game to say that race shouldn't matter.

RACE - The Power of an Illusion | White Advantage

Yawn......

 

[OldLady]

Well this thread went to shit fast.
Here is my surprise look.......

It's up to you to make it better. Choose a point and go to it!

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Rosie, this is the Bull Ring. Only invited participants can join the discussion. You can read and react, but comments would go in the call out thread, not this one. I think Mariyam posted this one in the wrong part of the forum, but the Call out thread is here:

Bull Ring - Invitiation to TemplarKormac/Porter Rockwell/Iamwhatiseem/Freyasman: An Informal Debate on Race Relations in the United States Including Its History

I'd like to start at the beginning so we all can understand the foundation this system was built on.

www.usmessageboard.com

This thread is already mostly dead anyway.
There will be no discussion of any value when you allow extremist to be a part of it. They will take over and totem post, derail any beginnings of a discussion.
The thread was doomed anyway... FFS it started with the premise that whites, by nature, are racist.
So, yeah.... it's a joke thread.

 

[OldLady]

IM-----your LONG LONG dissertation provided no answers-----it is a pile of sophist BS

I actually thought it provided quite a lot of information to back up the claims that racism is still an inherent problem in the system.