An Honest Discussion of White Privilege, by Two White Guys

[Andylusion]

I'm sorry, I don't prejudge people. It is a waste of time because you never know who or what is facing you.

Well, you do. You just don't know it yet. Hopefully you'll know yourself better in the future.

Well I didn't judge you as being an idiot until right now! Hopefully you will realize that in the future.

And yet you just did.... You just proved me right, while saying I was wrong. Ironic that.

 

[Nutz]

Well, you do. You just don't know it yet. Hopefully you'll know yourself better in the future.

Well I didn't judge you as being an idiot until right now! Hopefully you will realize that in the future.

And yet you just did.... You just proved me right, while saying I was wrong. Ironic that.

Nope...we had a discussion. After you said what you needed to say, I decided you were an idiot. YOU defined yourself.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

These two guys get it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etg0ghv3Ieg

Particularly the guest, who helped the host, David Pakman, to articulate the situation more effectively.

To those who wish to respond, please watch the video first, it's about 8 minutes and change long.

Obviously most on the partisan right didn’t bother to watch the video.

That white Americans enjoy many advantages as a consequence of their race in education, employment, and many other aspects of life is beyond dispute.

And there’s nothing wrong with that.

Moreover, it in no way ‘discounts’ the talents and abilities of white Americans with regard to their abilities, success, and accomplishments; indeed, the white experience should be the experience of all Americans growing up our Nation, regardless of race, ethnicity, or gender.

White Americans realized their goals and success as a consequence of hard work, perseverance, and determination, along with innate talents, skills, and abilities. They were also successful as a result of help and guidance from family, friends, teachers, and mentors.

White Americans also did not experience having undue burdens, unwarranted obstacles, and capricious barriers placed in their path of life, as did many minorities.

Consequently, the issue has nothing to do with ‘white privilege,’ where white Americans are ‘undeserving’ of their success, or that their success was somehow mitigated by the advantages they enjoyed in life as a result of race, but the fact that unlike most white Americans, minorities were subject to various discriminatory elements that prevented them from achieving their full potential in life.

 

[Andylusion]

Well I didn't judge you as being an idiot until right now! Hopefully you will realize that in the future.

And yet you just did.... You just proved me right, while saying I was wrong. Ironic that.

Nope...we had a discussion. After you said what you needed to say, I decided you were an idiot. YOU defined yourself.

Yes, rationalize it all you want. Gotta save face somehow, right?

 

[Nutz]

These two guys get it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etg0ghv3Ieg

Particularly the guest, who helped the host, David Pakman, to articulate the situation more effectively.

To those who wish to respond, please watch the video first, it's about 8 minutes and change long.

Obviously most on the partisan right didn’t bother to watch the video.

That white Americans enjoy many advantages as a consequence of their race in education, employment, and many other aspects of life is beyond dispute.

And there’s nothing wrong with that.

Moreover, it in no way ‘discounts’ the talents and abilities of white Americans with regard to their abilities, success, and accomplishments; indeed, the white experience should be the experience of all Americans growing up our Nation, regardless of race, ethnicity, or gender.

White Americans realized their goals and success as a consequence of hard work, perseverance, and determination, along with innate talents, skills, and abilities. They were also successful as a result of help and guidance from family, friends, teachers, and mentors.

White Americans also did not experience having undue burdens, unwarranted obstacles, and capricious barriers placed in their path of life, as did many minorities.

Consequently, the issue has nothing to do with ‘white privilege,’ where white Americans are ‘undeserving’ of their success, or that their success was somehow mitigated by the advantages they enjoyed in life as a result of race, but the fact that unlike most white Americans, minorities were subject to various discriminatory elements that prevented them from achieving their full potential in life.

Well said.

And I don't think liberals and blacks actually discount white 'success' when white privilege is brought up. I think the notion of WP is the counter argument to racist nonsense when whites accuse blacks of being lazy and so on.

 

[Nutz]

And yet you just did.... You just proved me right, while saying I was wrong. Ironic that.

Nope...we had a discussion. After you said what you needed to say, I decided you were an idiot. YOU defined yourself.

Yes, rationalize it all you want. Gotta save face somehow, right?

Yeah, lets be rational about it. We had a discussion...right?

At the end of that discussion, which you choose to continue, I determined you are an idiot. I didn't form the belief you were an idiot (IMO) until you defined yourself with your own words. That is not prejudging...that is giving you a chance to show me what you are. In this case, an idiot.

So tell me, where did I prejudge you? I determined you are an idiot (and an asshole to boot) after you showed your ass.

 

[Andylusion]

Nope...we had a discussion. After you said what you needed to say, I decided you were an idiot. YOU defined yourself.

Yes, rationalize it all you want. Gotta save face somehow, right?

Yeah, lets be rational about it. We had a discussion...right?

At the end of that discussion, which you choose to continue, I determined you are an idiot. I didn't form the belief you were an idiot (IMO) until you defined yourself with your own words. That is not prejudging...that is giving you a chance to show me what you are. In this case, an idiot.

So tell me, where did I prejudge you? I determined you are an idiot (and an asshole to boot) after you showed your ass.

Right, I'm being an asshole. Whatever floats your boat dude lol.

 

[Nutz]

Yes, rationalize it all you want. Gotta save face somehow, right?

Yeah, lets be rational about it. We had a discussion...right?

At the end of that discussion, which you choose to continue, I determined you are an idiot. I didn't form the belief you were an idiot (IMO) until you defined yourself with your own words. That is not prejudging...that is giving you a chance to show me what you are. In this case, an idiot.

So tell me, where did I prejudge you? I determined you are an idiot (and an asshole to boot) after you showed your ass.

Right, I'm being an asshole. Whatever floats your boat dude lol.

Didn't say you were being an asshole. I said you ARE an asshole. Sheesh, you have some SERIOUS comprehension issues.)

 

[Asclepias]

Oh my goodness yes. I have worked at several places where being a minority gained you a free pass. Several.

There was a place called Sarcom, that I worked for back in the 90s, as a computer technician. There was a guy there that showed up late every day, barely knew what he was doing, and didn't try to figure out, and left early. Everyone knew why he was there, including him. He was the token minority black guy, and his job was absolutely secure.

When he quit, mysteriously another token guy showed up, but thank Heaven above, he was a great guy who tried his best, and worked as hard as the rest of us. But that first guy... there was only one reason he was on the pay roll, and it was pigment. And he reveled in it. He never worked a full day his entire time there, and had no problem rubbing it in everyone's face.

Ironically we had an Asian, and a Mexican who worked there as well, and they worked circles around him. He didn't care. He was safe. Asians always outperform the other races in America, which puts the whole 'racism' crap in the trash can. And those who say Mexicans don't work are full of crap too. Mexicans might not have the education to work in some cases, but those that do, work their butts off.

If every single black person in America worked as hard as the average Mexican, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I can think of several other examples, and additionally, I worked at a place that only had 2 white guys (including myself) in the whole company, and I found out that I was the lowest paid person on in the entire company. People in shipping were earning a higher pay than me. Oddly, it never occurred to me to start a thread on discrimination, or complaining, or starting a political movement. I simply found another job.

I worked at a place as a network engineer and there was a white guy that did the exact same thing. Why he was allowed to continue working there was simply white privilege. He was always screwing things up and actually ended up getting me promoted because I usually fixed his mess ups. If all white guys worked as hard as Blacks do then we wouldnt be having this discussion because white privilege would not be needed.

Um... you just said you got yourself promoted, by fixing his mistakes. Apparently he didn't have the white privilege?

And actually I know of exactly those examples too. I know just a couple of engineers who screwed everything up, and minority engineers were promoted over them, and they were eventually fired.

Doesn't that also disprove the myth of white privilege?

No it doesnt disprove the concept of white privilege. It actually validates it. There was no way this guy should have been an engineer. Turns out he knew someone higher up in the company that got him the job. Thats why I said it was white privilege.

 

[Andylusion]

Yeah, lets be rational about it. We had a discussion...right?

At the end of that discussion, which you choose to continue, I determined you are an idiot. I didn't form the belief you were an idiot (IMO) until you defined yourself with your own words. That is not prejudging...that is giving you a chance to show me what you are. In this case, an idiot.

So tell me, where did I prejudge you? I determined you are an idiot (and an asshole to boot) after you showed your ass.

Right, I'm being an asshole. Whatever floats your boat dude lol.

Didn't say you were being an asshole. I said you ARE an asshole. Sheesh, you have some SERIOUS comprehension issues.)

I'm sorry, but you have gotten rather childish. And honestly, as far as I'm concerned, you have successfully over the last dozen posts, proven my point. It's sad that you can't see that in your own posts.

 

[Andylusion]

I worked at a place as a network engineer and there was a white guy that did the exact same thing. Why he was allowed to continue working there was simply white privilege. He was always screwing things up and actually ended up getting me promoted because I usually fixed his mess ups. If all white guys worked as hard as Blacks do then we wouldnt be having this discussion because white privilege would not be needed.

Um... you just said you got yourself promoted, by fixing his mistakes. Apparently he didn't have the white privilege?

And actually I know of exactly those examples too. I know just a couple of engineers who screwed everything up, and minority engineers were promoted over them, and they were eventually fired.

Doesn't that also disprove the myth of white privilege?

No it doesnt disprove the concept of white privilege. It actually validates it. There was no way this guy should have been an engineer. Turns out he knew someone higher up in the company that got him the job. Thats why I said it was white privilege.

That's not white privilege. I know black business owners, and they have black people they know, that they gave positions too.

That's more along the lines of nepotism. In fact, I know a couple of Asian owners, who gave jobs to Asian friends they knew.

So is there now black privilege, and asian privilege?

You are talking about a different topic. The fundamental concept of "white privilege" is that it's between people that are strangers, who judge based on skin color, not on "I know someone, thus I get a job". That's a different thing.

That even crosses skin color. I worked at a company where the Director of Manufacturing, hired on a guy because he grow up as a neighbor. She (the director) was white as a sheet, and he was black.

Black privilege? Well of course not. He knew someone. That's how he got hired.

Two different things.

 

[Asclepias]

Um... you just said you got yourself promoted, by fixing his mistakes. Apparently he didn't have the white privilege?

And actually I know of exactly those examples too. I know just a couple of engineers who screwed everything up, and minority engineers were promoted over them, and they were eventually fired.

Doesn't that also disprove the myth of white privilege?

No it doesnt disprove the concept of white privilege. It actually validates it. There was no way this guy should have been an engineer. Turns out he knew someone higher up in the company that got him the job. Thats why I said it was white privilege.

That's not white privilege. I know black business owners, and they have black people they know, that they gave positions too.

That's more along the lines of nepotism. In fact, I know a couple of Asian owners, who gave jobs to Asian friends they knew.

So is there now black privilege, and asian privilege?

You are talking about a different topic. The fundamental concept of "white privilege" is that it's between people that are strangers, who judge based on skin color, not on "I know someone, thus I get a job". That's a different thing.

That even crosses skin color. I worked at a company where the Director of Manufacturing, hired on a guy because he grow up as a neighbor. She (the director) was white as a sheet, and he was black.

Black privilege? Well of course not. He knew someone. That's how he got hired.

Two different things.

I should have been more specific. He knew someone higher up through family ties. He had never set eyes on the person until he came to work for the company. There is Black, Asian, etc privilege in hiring but its significantly less than white due to simple mathematics and a direct reaction to white privilege. Nepotism is just one facet of white privilege and that is not even close to being the extent of white privilege. White people set up this country unabashedly to serve white interests. Why do you think civil rights had to be included in the constitution even though it specifically states all men are created equal in the declaration? Its simply because they were laying the foundations to try and correct white privilege. How you miss that is amazing and lends credence to my theory that white people are either blind to it or liars.

 

[Andylusion]

No it doesnt disprove the concept of white privilege. It actually validates it. There was no way this guy should have been an engineer. Turns out he knew someone higher up in the company that got him the job. Thats why I said it was white privilege.

That's not white privilege. I know black business owners, and they have black people they know, that they gave positions too.

That's more along the lines of nepotism. In fact, I know a couple of Asian owners, who gave jobs to Asian friends they knew.

So is there now black privilege, and asian privilege?

You are talking about a different topic. The fundamental concept of "white privilege" is that it's between people that are strangers, who judge based on skin color, not on "I know someone, thus I get a job". That's a different thing.

That even crosses skin color. I worked at a company where the Director of Manufacturing, hired on a guy because he grow up as a neighbor. She (the director) was white as a sheet, and he was black.

Black privilege? Well of course not. He knew someone. That's how he got hired.

Two different things.

I should have been more specific. He knew someone higher up through family ties. He had never set eyes on the person until he came to work for the company. There is Black, Asian, etc privilege in hiring but its significantly less than white due to simple mathematics and a direct reaction to white privilege. Nepotism is just one facet of white privilege and that is not even close to being the extent of white privilege. White people set up this country unabashedly to serve white interests. Why do you think civil rights had to be included in the constitution even though it specifically states all men are created equal in the declaration? Its simply because they were laying the foundations to try and correct white privilege. How you miss that is amazing and lends credence to my theory that white people are either blind to it or liars.

But you can't correct white privilege as described, without denying people's rights.

My uncle is an Engineer, that started his own company at one point. If I had decided to get hired on by him, I would automatically have an advantage no other person, white or otherwise, would have.

Again, I suggest all such things are not "white privilege", because it's not about the skin color. It's not even about race, because I would have that advantage over other 100% Germans. (I'm 100% German blood heritage).

Additionally, if it also is a 'privilege' that other races have, just as you said blacks hiring blacks, then it still isn't "white privilege" when non-whites can take advantage of the same privilege.

That doesn't make any sense.

Lastly, as I was saying at the start, the only way to deny that privilege, is to deny my rights. My Uncle isn't going to hire a minority person, simply because he can't hire me. You can't force him to hire someone he doesn't wish to hire. Nor would anyone else magically have that 'in road' to his company, simply because I didn't.

And preventing people like me from having an opportunity, would only cause people like, to hate the people who prevented my opportunity.

*YOU* are causing racial hatred. That's not going to go well for minorities.

And lastly, if you really want a history of civil rights, you should do some reading. Minorities had made far greater in roads into society before the civil rights movement, than after it. In fact, minorities declined under the civil rights laws, because of the backlash against trying to force people with government. Passing a law, and trying to force people to act a certain way by government legislation, is a great way to start a fight, and that's exactly what happened.

 

[Montrovant]

I worked at a place as a network engineer and there was a white guy that did the exact same thing. Why he was allowed to continue working there was simply white privilege. He was always screwing things up and actually ended up getting me promoted because I usually fixed his mess ups. If all white guys worked as hard as Blacks do then we wouldnt be having this discussion because white privilege would not be needed.

Troll or bigot? Hard to say for sure.....

 

[Asclepias]

That's not white privilege. I know black business owners, and they have black people they know, that they gave positions too.

That's more along the lines of nepotism. In fact, I know a couple of Asian owners, who gave jobs to Asian friends they knew.

So is there now black privilege, and asian privilege?

You are talking about a different topic. The fundamental concept of "white privilege" is that it's between people that are strangers, who judge based on skin color, not on "I know someone, thus I get a job". That's a different thing.

That even crosses skin color. I worked at a company where the Director of Manufacturing, hired on a guy because he grow up as a neighbor. She (the director) was white as a sheet, and he was black.

Black privilege? Well of course not. He knew someone. That's how he got hired.

Two different things.

I should have been more specific. He knew someone higher up through family ties. He had never set eyes on the person until he came to work for the company. There is Black, Asian, etc privilege in hiring but its significantly less than white due to simple mathematics and a direct reaction to white privilege. Nepotism is just one facet of white privilege and that is not even close to being the extent of white privilege. White people set up this country unabashedly to serve white interests. Why do you think civil rights had to be included in the constitution even though it specifically states all men are created equal in the declaration? Its simply because they were laying the foundations to try and correct white privilege. How you miss that is amazing and lends credence to my theory that white people are either blind to it or liars.

But you can't correct white privilege as described, without denying people's rights.

My uncle is an Engineer, that started his own company at one point. If I had decided to get hired on by him, I would automatically have an advantage no other person, white or otherwise, would have.

Again, I suggest all such things are not "white privilege", because it's not about the skin color. It's not even about race, because I would have that advantage over other 100% Germans. (I'm 100% German blood heritage).

Additionally, if it also is a 'privilege' that other races have, just as you said blacks hiring blacks, then it still isn't "white privilege" when non-whites can take advantage of the same privilege.

That doesn't make any sense.

Lastly, as I was saying at the start, the only way to deny that privilege, is to deny my rights. My Uncle isn't going to hire a minority person, simply because he can't hire me. You can't force him to hire someone he doesn't wish to hire. Nor would anyone else magically have that 'in road' to his company, simply because I didn't.

And preventing people like me from having an opportunity, would only cause people like, to hate the people who prevented my opportunity.

*YOU* are causing racial hatred. That's not going to go well for minorities.

And lastly, if you really want a history of civil rights, you should do some reading. Minorities had made far greater in roads into society before the civil rights movement, than after it. In fact, minorities declined under the civil rights laws, because of the backlash against trying to force people with government. Passing a law, and trying to force people to act a certain way by government legislation, is a great way to start a fight, and that's exactly what happened.

Sure you can but like I said thats only a facet of white privilege and a result of whites having all those years of being able to place themselves ahead of other people in the job market. Just because other races do it doesnt mean whites dont do it more than anyone else. You can pretend nepotism goes on in equal amounts but we all know the truth simply by virtue of common sense and the ability to count. There are more white people in hiring positions. You cant get anymore simple than that.

Civil rights has created far more opportunities than the system of Jim Crow and slavery. You must be out of your mind, high, or borderline retarded. My grandparents who were adults in the 60's when Civil Rights came about told me whats up. Who do you think I'm going to believe? Some white guy or Black people who have lived in both eras?

 

[Godboy]

I dont believe your grand parents were trust worthy people. I believe they were biased and they likely told you MANY lies and a fuckload of half truths. There were also certainly many PERCIEVED injustices that werent injustices at all. "Man, ****** pulled me over today!" Well no shit, you were speeding.

 

[Asclepias]

I dont believe your grand parents were trust worthy people. I believe they were biased and they likely told you MANY lies and a fuckload of half truths.

What you believe doesn't matter. Your opinion isnt worth 2 assholes touching each other.

 

[Nutz]

I dont believe your grand parents were trust worthy people. I believe they were biased and they likely told you MANY lies and a fuckload of half truths.

What you believe doesn't matter. Your opinion isnt worth 2 assholes touching each other.

I am sure he touches a lot of assholes.

 

[Vigilante]

While appearing on CNN Wednesday night, actor Morgan Freeman spread some refreshing ideas about debating income inequality in the United States.
Freeman stood up for the middle-class, telling host Don Lemon that without the middle-class, there would be no way to continue being a great nation of consumers.
When Lemon asked the actor whether he believed that race was a major contributing factor to income inequality, Freeman sternly disagreed.
“Do you think that race plays in a part in wealth distribution?” Lemon asked.
“No, no, no, I don’t. You and I are, we’re proof. Why would race have anything to do with it. Put your mind to what you want to do and go for that. It’s kind of like religion to me, it’s a good excuse for not getting there,” Freeman answered.
When Lemon complained about how much he has been forced to cover race and income inequality, Freeman asserted that he should stop making such a big deal out of the issue.
“If you talk about it, it exists,” Freeman said. “It’s not like it exists and we refuse to talk about it. Making it a bigger issue than it needs to be is the problem we have.”

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOiQgleiRtU]Morgan Freeman on race...and his birthday - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Asclepias]

I dont believe your grand parents were trust worthy people. I believe they were biased and they likely told you MANY lies and a fuckload of half truths.

What you believe doesn't matter. Your opinion isnt worth 2 assholes touching each other.

Thats funny because, I was thinking the same thing about your grand parents.

Are you a pervert that is into having sex with old people? I heard white men are into some weird stuff but I thought old people were off limits.