An Honest Discussion of White Privilege, by Two White Guys

[Nutz]

What debate? I'm a part of the irish minority, my ancestors were treated unfairly. I want my AA. Why should I not be able to benefit from the harms done to my Irish ancestors? If those harms had not been done my irish ancestors would be rich like the whiter than white community of non irish whites.

Perhaps you should move to North Africa and ask for reparations.

Why should I, I thought I was talking to "African Americans" no?

Nevermind...carry on. I had a better impression of you yesterday...I was wrong.

Carry on, tell all black people how they think and what they call themselves.

Carry on, link to an article about whites being slaves in Africa and demand reparations from the US...acting as if you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Swagger]

Most white people simply cannot acknowledge white privilege because it would damage their ego or they cannot comprehend it. There is one white guy on this board that does acknowledge it because he believes it is rightly a privilege due to white people since he believes whites are superior. Its got to be embarrassing for those who cant or wont admit it.

Assuming you're referring to a post you quoted me on some weeks back, I never claimed that Whites are in any way superiour to other races, just that they benefit from the culture that was transplanted from Europe that, by virtue of its original purpose, is more advantageous to its creators' ancestors: White people. Furthermore, ethnocentric privilege isn't exclusive to White people. The ancestors of White people just happened to gain a competitive edge over other races due to their homeland, Europe, being in a near constant state of warfare, thus accelerating technological innovation, not forgetting the sharing of knowledge with other cultures on the Eurasian landmass, and combining that knowledge with their own i.e. - gunpowder came from the Far East, but European steel was more advanced, and could cope with the expansive pressure exerted by the explosive force of gunpowder. Coincidentally, harnessing the power of gunpowder in the form of firearms is what gave European their greatest edge over the races they encountered. They could kill or maim from greater distances than others, thus exposing themselves to less risk. Superior engineering techniques and disciplines also helped.

The other point I made was that White people should be thankful for the endeavours and achievements their ancestors made that afford them a more advantageous position over others in the West, and shouldn't be ashamed of it. Indeed, to strengthen their supremacy (not superiority) they should make a conscious effort to favour their own over others whenever the opportunity arrises.

Whoever doesn't acknowledge the existence of White Privilege is either retarded, tragically ignorant or plain dishonest. It exists, White people. And alongside embracing it, you should take steps to ensure that it continues to exist after you're gone.

 

[Nutz]

The inevitable collapse of this experimental republic.

How do you imagine (or let's be honest, 'hope') this will happen, and when?

Like every other collapse of every other nation/empire in history. Bloodshed and revolution is how they all end eventually.
Think of the romans...the french revolution....the british empire...the russian revolution in 1917...the collapse of the soviet union in the 80's...read some history. I can't recite a thousand of years of revolutions to you.
History is littered with the wreckage of nations that were born, prospered a while and died.

The average lifespan of a nation is a couple hundred years before they collapse..some sooner....and they all thought "Oh, it can't happen HERE..we're MUCH too sophisticated and advanced for that"..LMAO....

This country was born in bloodshed and revolution and history shows it will die in bloodshed and revolution.

There is a revolution every 4 years. A mini-revolution every 2 years.

Your side losing doesn't mean the world is ending...it means you are a minority. Wishing for revolution and an armed insurrection makes you even more of a minority as very few people, besides the radicals on a discussion forum, agree with you.

In fact, it makes you a crybaby ***** who can't handle opposing opinion. Sucks to be a minority, doesn't it. It is a shame you can't handle it like other minorities. You should suck it up. Pull up your boot straps, work harder and be a man for christ sakes....no one is holding you down!

 

[RKMBrown]

Perhaps you should move to North Africa and ask for reparations.

Why should I, I thought I was talking to "African Americans" no?

Nevermind...carry on. I had a better impression of you yesterday...I was wrong.

Carry on, tell all black people how they think and what they call themselves.

Carry on, link to an article about whites being slaves in Africa and demand reparations from the US...acting as if you are comparing apples to oranges.

Wait... are you actually saying that EVERY SINGLE BLACK MAN IN AMERICA was born as a child of an American Slave?

Are you so sure I'm talking apples to oranges? If I'm talking apples to oranges, then I put it to you that your so called bunch of apples are really apples of various types having disparate origins. Further, many of your so called apples are from North Africa, the Caribbean, South America, Europe, Asia. Yet, AA is applied purely by skin color, correct? Not ancestry, correct? Many black people in America are not great grandchildren of slaves, correct?

More to my point the Irish were a group of people that America exhibited prejudice against, not unlike the prejudice currently being exhibited against Hispanics and gays.

 

[RKMBrown]

Thus.. IMO slavery is not the point of AA. The point is to address the prejudices, ... thus my comparison to the Irish is not apples to oranges but rather prejudice to prejudice. I'm doing my best to "feel" the pain of being black, and Irish (and American Indian) are as close as I can get given that my ancestry is to Irish, English, and part American Indian.

 

[Nutz]

Why should I, I thought I was talking to "African Americans" no?

Nevermind...carry on. I had a better impression of you yesterday...I was wrong.

Carry on, tell all black people how they think and what they call themselves.

Carry on, link to an article about whites being slaves in Africa and demand reparations from the US...acting as if you are comparing apples to oranges.

Wait... are you actually saying that EVERY SINGLE BLACK MAN IN AMERICA was born as a child of an American Slave?

Are you so sure I'm talking apples to oranges? If I'm talking apples to oranges, then I put it to you that your so called bunch of apples are really apples of various types having disparate origins. Further, many of your so called apples are from North Africa, the Caribbean, South America, Europe, Asia. Yet, AA is applied purely by skin color, correct? Not ancestry, correct? Many black people in America are not great grandchildren of slaves, correct?

No, women get AA too! And where did I say every single black man in the US was born to a slave. Hell, show me where I have even said I support AA. (Here is a hint, if you look hard enough, you will find where I have been very vocal against the practice). Regardless, I don't think AA has as much of a negative impact on your ilk as you claim. As I asked earlier, please show me where I can get some AA...no one has been able to give me any leads.

 

[Unkotare]

I always look at Brazil when I think about this topic, because the vast majority of Brazilians refuse to identify themselves as any particular race, but rather, as Brazilians.

You are greatly mistaken if you think there is no racism in Brazil. Greatly.

 

[RKMBrown]

Nevermind...carry on. I had a better impression of you yesterday...I was wrong.

Carry on, tell all black people how they think and what they call themselves.

Carry on, link to an article about whites being slaves in Africa and demand reparations from the US...acting as if you are comparing apples to oranges.

Wait... are you actually saying that EVERY SINGLE BLACK MAN IN AMERICA was born as a child of an American Slave?

Are you so sure I'm talking apples to oranges? If I'm talking apples to oranges, then I put it to you that your so called bunch of apples are really apples of various types having disparate origins. Further, many of your so called apples are from North Africa, the Caribbean, South America, Europe, Asia. Yet, AA is applied purely by skin color, correct? Not ancestry, correct? Many black people in America are not great grandchildren of slaves, correct?

No, women get AA too! And where did I say every single black man in the US was born to a slave. Hell, show me where I have even said I support AA. (Here is a hint, if you look hard enough, you will find where I have been very vocal against the practice). Regardless, I don't think AA has as much of a negative impact on your ilk as you claim. As I asked earlier, please show me where I can get some AA...no one has been able to give me any leads.

I thought I already explained where. Nearly every single corporate and / or government entity has racial and gender quota targets set by upper management for hires and for promotions. If their ratios are off for any one particular minority segment, instructions are passed down to hiring managers to fix it. That translates, directly, to people of said race and/or gender getting "sorted" to the top of the list whether or not those people are the best candidate for hire / promotion.

I've personally seen this done in every single large company that have I worked for. Not only is it done explicitly, it's even advertised thought the company that they are doing it in annual progress charts and briefings to stock holders, executives, politicians, community leaders etc..

 

[Unkotare]

The inevitable collapse of this experimental republic.

How do you imagine (or let's be honest, 'hope') this will happen, and when?

Like every other collapse of every other nation/empire in history. Bloodshed and revolution is how they all end eventually.
Think of the romans...the french revolution....the british empire...the russian revolution in 1917...the collapse of the soviet union in the 80's...read some history. I can't recite a thousand of years of revolutions to you.
History is littered with the wreckage of nations that were born, prospered a while and died.

The average lifespan of a nation is a couple hundred years before they collapse..some sooner....and they all thought "Oh, it can't happen HERE..we're MUCH too sophisticated and advanced for that"

This country was born in bloodshed and revolution and history shows it will die in bloodshed and revolution.

You reference the Roman Empire and then cite a time frame of "a couple hundred years"?

Hey, guess what? France - still here, Britain - still here, Russia - still here. You are just another shallow fool who wants to wallow in nihilism because you mistakenly believe it makes you look "intellectual." It doesn't.

 

[Nutz]

Wait... are you actually saying that EVERY SINGLE BLACK MAN IN AMERICA was born as a child of an American Slave?

Are you so sure I'm talking apples to oranges? If I'm talking apples to oranges, then I put it to you that your so called bunch of apples are really apples of various types having disparate origins. Further, many of your so called apples are from North Africa, the Caribbean, South America, Europe, Asia. Yet, AA is applied purely by skin color, correct? Not ancestry, correct? Many black people in America are not great grandchildren of slaves, correct?

No, women get AA too! And where did I say every single black man in the US was born to a slave. Hell, show me where I have even said I support AA. (Here is a hint, if you look hard enough, you will find where I have been very vocal against the practice). Regardless, I don't think AA has as much of a negative impact on your ilk as you claim. As I asked earlier, please show me where I can get some AA...no one has been able to give me any leads.

I thought I already explained where. Nearly every single corporate and / or government entity has racial and gender quota targets set by upper management for hires and for promotions. If their ratios are off for any one particular minority segment, instructions are passed down to hiring managers to fix it. That translates, directly, to people of said race and/or gender getting "sorted" to the top of the list whether or not those people are the best candidate for hire / promotion.

I've personally seen this done in every single large company that have I worked for. Not only is it done explicitly, it's even advertised thought the company that they are doing it in annual progress charts and briefings to stock holders, executives, politicians, community leaders etc..

I haven't seen it or experienced it, so it must not be true! But is that government mandated AA or policies set forth by the private company?

 

[RKMBrown]

The damage to me personally? I did ok in spite of the AA actions, but the harms of AA are real. To many times the wrong people got hired and/or promoted in groups that I've been a part of. But yeah when that happened I just left the morass to find better pastures. I have no tolerance for idiotic behavior such as hiring and promoting based solely on race & gender.

 

[Rotagilla]

There is a revolution every 4 years. A mini-revolution every 2 years.

Ok..you go with that.

Your side losing doesn't mean the world is ending...it means you are a minority.

My side?
I see through both sides.

Wishing for revolution and an armed insurrection makes you even more of a minority as very few people, besides the radicals on a discussion forum agree with you.

You're making up a strawman to beat up so you look "smart"..I never "wished" for anything.

In fact, it makes you a crybaby ***** who can't handle opposing opinion.

Ahh..now we get to the point of your post. name calling and childish ad homs
How clever!
It's obvious you're projecting your own insecurities and shortcomings, though.

Sucks to be a minority, doesn't it.

More projecting.

It is a shame you can't handle it like other minorities. You should suck it up. Pull up your boot straps, work harder and be a man for christ sakes....no one is holding you down!

right...whatever.
Read some history and study the average lifespan of nations.

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

‘A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.’

‘A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.’

‘From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.’

‘The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years.’

‘During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. from bondage to spiritual faith;
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
3. from courage to liberty;
4. from liberty to abundance;
5. from abundance to complacency;
6. from complacency to apathy;
7. from apathy to dependence;
8. from dependence back into bondage.

 

[Nutz]

The damage to me personally? I did ok in spite of the AA actions, but the harms of AA are real. To many times the wrong people got hired and/or promoted in groups that I've been a part of. But yeah when that happened I just left the morass to find better pastures. I have no tolerance for idiotic behavior such as hiring and promoting based solely on race & gender.

So you are against the hiring of a white person over a black or a male over a female too? If, of course, the black or female is more qualified.

 

[RKMBrown]

The damage to me personally? I did ok in spite of the AA actions, but the harms of AA are real. To many times the wrong people got hired and/or promoted in groups that I've been a part of. But yeah when that happened I just left the morass to find better pastures. I have no tolerance for idiotic behavior such as hiring and promoting based solely on race & gender.

So you are against the hiring of a white person over a black or a male over a female too? If, of course, the black or female is more qualified.

Of course.

 

[RKMBrown]

No, women get AA too! And where did I say every single black man in the US was born to a slave. Hell, show me where I have even said I support AA. (Here is a hint, if you look hard enough, you will find where I have been very vocal against the practice). Regardless, I don't think AA has as much of a negative impact on your ilk as you claim. As I asked earlier, please show me where I can get some AA...no one has been able to give me any leads.

I thought I already explained where. Nearly every single corporate and / or government entity has racial and gender quota targets set by upper management for hires and for promotions. If their ratios are off for any one particular minority segment, instructions are passed down to hiring managers to fix it. That translates, directly, to people of said race and/or gender getting "sorted" to the top of the list whether or not those people are the best candidate for hire / promotion.

I've personally seen this done in every single large company that have I worked for. Not only is it done explicitly, it's even advertised thought the company that they are doing it in annual progress charts and briefings to stock holders, executives, politicians, community leaders etc..

I haven't seen it or experienced it, so it must not be true! But is that government mandated AA or policies set forth by the private company?

What happens is over time most large corporations end up doing a bucket load of government contracts. Many of the government contracts have stipulations that the submitting firms meet certain quotas or at least be showing progress toward meeting the quotas. So you are left with a choice... meet the quotas by implementing plans to address shortfalls, or don't submit bids for government contracts.

FYI: many times when a layoff is performed the corporation will use the layoff to address shortfalls in quotas as well. IOW layoff the old white males to reduce payroll and address quotas.

 

[Rotagilla]

You reference the Roman Empire and then cite a time frame of "a couple hundred years"?

Go read it again if you can't grasp the context.

Hey, guess what? France - still here, Britain - still here, Russia - still here.

Hey, guess what?...No one said these nations disappeared from the face of the earth...what a stupid position to even pretend that I said that. I guess you think you're "funny" or "clever".

anyway...
France? Major revolutions in 1749 and 1848...A few others, too.

Britain? They used to say the sun never set on the british empire..it did eventually. Numerous revolutions in their history.

Russia? 1917 bolshevik revolution and the breakup of the soviet union in the 80's were the 2 I was mainly referring to, but there have been many...

You are just another shallow fool who wants to wallow in nihilism because you mistakenly believe it makes you look "intellectual." It doesn't.

In fact, son..here..educate yourself a little bit...even wiki can be trusted to be accurate with this info

List of revolutions and rebellions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Asclepias]

Most white people simply cannot acknowledge white privilege because it would damage their ego or they cannot comprehend it. There is one white guy on this board that does acknowledge it because he believes it is rightly a privilege due to white people since he believes whites are superior. Its got to be embarrassing for those who cant or wont admit it.

Assuming you're referring to a post you quoted me on some weeks back, I never claimed that Whites are in any way superiour to other races, just that they benefit from the culture that was transplanted from Europe that, by virtue of its original purpose, is more advantageous to its creators' ancestors: White people. Furthermore, ethnocentric privilege isn't exclusive to White people. The ancestors of White people just happened to gain a competitive edge over other races due to their homeland, Europe, being in a near constant state of warfare, thus accelerating technological innovation, not forgetting the sharing of knowledge with other cultures on the Eurasian landmass, and combining that knowledge with their own i.e. - gunpowder came from the Far East, but European steel was more advanced, and could cope with the expansive pressure exerted by the explosive force of gunpowder. Coincidentally, harnessing the power of gunpowder in the form of firearms is what gave European their greatest edge over the races they encountered. They could kill or maim from greater distances than others, thus exposing themselves to less risk. Superior engineering techniques and disciplines also helped.

The other point I made was that White people should be thankful for the endeavours and achievements their ancestors made that afford them a more advantageous position over others in the West, and shouldn't be ashamed of it. Indeed, to strengthen their supremacy (not superiority) they should make a conscious effort to favour their own over others whenever the opportunity arrises.

Whoever doesn't acknowledge the existence of White Privilege is either retarded, tragically ignorant or plain dishonest. It exists, White people. And alongside embracing it, you should take steps to ensure that it continues to exist after you're gone.

BUMP!!! ^^^^^

My mistake if that is not what you meant. However supremacy is a subset of superiority.

 

[MarcATL]

These two guys get it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etg0ghv3Ieg

Particularly the guest, who helped the host, David Pakman, to articulate the situation more effectively.

To those who wish to respond, please watch the video first, it's about 8 minutes and change long.

Obviously most on the partisan right didn’t bother to watch the video.

That white Americans enjoy many advantages as a consequence of their race in education, employment, and many other aspects of life is beyond dispute.

And there’s nothing wrong with that.

Moreover, it in no way ‘discounts’ the talents and abilities of white Americans with regard to their abilities, success, and accomplishments; indeed, the white experience should be the experience of all Americans growing up our Nation, regardless of race, ethnicity, or gender.

White Americans realized their goals and success as a consequence of hard work, perseverance, and determination, along with innate talents, skills, and abilities. They were also successful as a result of help and guidance from family, friends, teachers, and mentors.

White Americans also did not experience having undue burdens, unwarranted obstacles, and capricious barriers placed in their path of life, as did many minorities.

Consequently, the issue has nothing to do with ‘white privilege,’ where white Americans are ‘undeserving’ of their success, or that their success was somehow mitigated by the advantages they enjoyed in life as a result of race, but the fact that unlike most white Americans, minorities were subject to various discriminatory elements that prevented them from achieving their full potential in life.

Post of the thread.

*one-man standing ovation*

 

[MarcATL]

I worked at a place as a network engineer and there was a white guy that did the exact same thing. Why he was allowed to continue working there was simply white privilege. He was always screwing things up and actually ended up getting me promoted because I usually fixed his mess ups. If all white guys worked as hard as Blacks do then we wouldnt be having this discussion because white privilege would not be needed.

Um... you just said you got yourself promoted, by fixing his mistakes. Apparently he didn't have the white privilege?

And actually I know of exactly those examples too. I know just a couple of engineers who screwed everything up, and minority engineers were promoted over them, and they were eventually fired.

Doesn't that also disprove the myth of white privilege?

No it doesnt disprove the concept of white privilege. It actually validates it. There was no way this guy should have been an engineer. Turns out he knew someone higher up in the company that got him the job. Thats why I said it was white privilege.

That he doesn't or won't understand this is rather telling.

No it doesnt disprove the concept of white privilege. It actually validates it. There was no way this guy should have been an engineer. Turns out he knew someone higher up in the company that got him the job. Thats why I said it was white privilege.

That's not white privilege. I know black business owners, and they have black people they know, that they gave positions too.

That's more along the lines of nepotism. In fact, I know a couple of Asian owners, who gave jobs to Asian friends they knew.

So is there now black privilege, and asian privilege?

You are talking about a different topic. The fundamental concept of "white privilege" is that it's between people that are strangers, who judge based on skin color, not on "I know someone, thus I get a job". That's a different thing.

That even crosses skin color. I worked at a company where the Director of Manufacturing, hired on a guy because he grow up as a neighbor. She (the director) was white as a sheet, and he was black.

Black privilege? Well of course not. He knew someone. That's how he got hired.

Two different things.

I should have been more specific. He knew someone higher up through family ties. He had never set eyes on the person until he came to work for the company. There is Black, Asian, etc privilege in hiring but its significantly less than white due to simple mathematics and a direct reaction to white privilege. Nepotism is just one facet of white privilege and that is not even close to being the extent of white privilege. White people set up this country unabashedly to serve white interests. Why do you think civil rights had to be included in the constitution even though it specifically states all men are created equal in the declaration? Its simply because they were laying the foundations to try and correct white privilege. How you miss that is amazing and lends credence to my theory that white people are either blind to it or liars.

Basically.

 

[MarcATL]

While appearing on CNN Wednesday night, actor Morgan Freeman spread some refreshing ideas about debating income inequality in the United States.
Freeman stood up for the middle-class, telling host Don Lemon that without the middle-class, there would be no way to continue being a great nation of consumers.
When Lemon asked the actor whether he believed that race was a major contributing factor to income inequality, Freeman sternly disagreed.
“Do you think that race plays in a part in wealth distribution?” Lemon asked.
“No, no, no, I don’t. You and I are, we’re proof. Why would race have anything to do with it. Put your mind to what you want to do and go for that. It’s kind of like religion to me, it’s a good excuse for not getting there,” Freeman answered.
When Lemon complained about how much he has been forced to cover race and income inequality, Freeman asserted that he should stop making such a big deal out of the issue.
“If you talk about it, it exists,” Freeman said. “It’s not like it exists and we refuse to talk about it. Making it a bigger issue than it needs to be is the problem we have.”

Morgan Freeman on race...and his birthday - YouTube

Here's the thing about what's going on in that clip...

Too often, those that made it despite the issues, basically, exeptions to the rule, come out and speak as if they are the rule.

A Morgan Freeman is 1-in-a-million shot, based in skill, opportunity and lots of luck.

Note: My statement does not take away from his talents.