America's loss in Afghanistan, is the End of America as the sole Super Power.

[Correll]

Not from my point of view.



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We trade with "Russia" since decades of thousands of years.

There is "trade" and then there is putting them in charge of your winter heating.


That's stupid.


Especially if your leaders supported NATO expansion.

 

[Correll]

Intentionally obtuse or naturally a dullard?
After refusing to take the Afghan government up on their offer, Shrub and the gang initiated the 20 year disaster.

So, stripped of your spin, my words were correct. When the Taliban, instead of coming back with a "yes sir, here he is", effectively asked for and got WAR. And a lot of it. Funny how you lefties never have anything negative to say about THEIR choices or their responsibilities.


So, what is your whine about anyways?

 

[JWBooth]

So, stripped of your spin, my words were correct. When the Taliban, instead of coming back with a "yes sir, here he is", effectively asked for and got WAR. And a lot of it. Funny how you lefties never have anything negative to say about THEIR choices or their responsibilities.


So, what is your whine about anyways?

So, dullard it is.

 

[ESay]

We entered Afghanistan 20 years ago "to get the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 and to deliver justice to Osama Bin Laden, and to degrade the terrorist threat to keep Afghanistan from becoming a base from which attacks could be continued against the United States." We were successful in fulfilling our goals. We got Bin Laden, we got the terrorists, and we did keep Afghanistan from becoming a base for terrorism for 20 years. However, once we entered the war we created other goals that were not realistic such as creating a lasting democratic form of government, equal rights for women, and bringing the country into the 21st century through education and commerce. Although we did make some progress, these goals can only be accomplished by the Afghan people.

IMHO, getting out of Afghanistan is long over due. What we have to gain by staying simply does not justify the cost in lives and dollars. We had significant accomplishments and we accomplished our goals and now it's time to get out. We also created an environment that will make it difficult for the Talban to rule as it did in the 1990's assuming it gains full control of the nation.

I agree with all that. The withdrawal from Afghanistan is a logical and needed step. I can't see it the other way around. Let Afghanistan be Russia and China's headache.

 

[Flopper]

I agree with all that. The withdrawal from Afghanistan is a logical and needed step. I can't see it the other way around. Let Afghanistan be Russia and China's headache.

Why would Afghanistan be Russia and China's headache? Russia spent 10 bloody years fighting in Afghanistan and accomplished nothing. What interest does China have in Afghanistan? Most of the Afghan GDP depends on financial aid from the US and UN which will evaporate if the Taliban gains power. Their primary export is rugs and illegal drugs. Possibility China is interested in their mineral resources, however that would take a substantial investment by China which seems unlikely in a country as unstable as Afghanistan. My Guess China is just looking for a way they could fill the power vacuum as the US leaves without any significant commitment. For over hundred years, ever foreign power that has become involve with Afghanistan has regretted it.

 

[easyt65]

So...America being unable to stay in Afghanistan forever, unable to turn Afghanistan's government into a US mini-me Democracy, and our over-due departure proves we are no longer a super-power. I though Joe Biden's sell-out to the CCP and Russia was doing that.

 

[bendog]

We stopped being the "superpower" in Iraq. We couldn't even "win" in Afghan.

W pretty much whiffed. We had a short window after 9-11 to kill al queda at tora bora, and to use the soon to be decommissioned Kittyhawk that no longer had its air wing, to stage parts of the 101st, and the 82nd too. It would have been risky because Rwanda showed the difficulty of supply with no port. But we still had at the time the air power and missile to make hell on earth.

We were never going to get rid of the Taliban's view of Islam

Maybe its not a bad thing for the US to not have the capability of destroying any govt that doesn't have a nuclear deterrent.

 

[ESay]

Why would Afghanistan be Russia and China's headache? Russia spent 10 bloody years fighting in Afghanistan and accomplished nothing. What interest does China have in Afghanistan? Most of the Afghan GDP depends on financial aid from the US and UN which will evaporate if the Taliban gains power. Their primary export is rugs and illegal drugs. Possibility China is interested in their mineral resources, however that would take a substantial investment by China which seems unlikely in a country as unstable as Afghanistan. My Guess China is just looking for a way they could fill the power vacuum as the US leaves without any significant commitment. For over hundred years, ever foreign power that has become involve with Afghanistan has regretted it.

The importance of Afghanistan is in its location. It lies on a crossroad between India, Iran, Russia (through the Central Asia region) and China.

Central Asia is the sphere of influence of Russia and this region borders with Xinjiang autonomous region of China (whose main population is Muslim).

China and Russia (especially) are interested in stable autocratic governments there that will maintain their allegiance to these powers. The Taliban and other Muslim groups in Afghanistan can destabilise this region. That can result in regional autocrat regimes losing their power and Beijing and especially Moscow providing their help (both economically and militarily) to prop these regimes.

 

[Correll]

.....
Wow. Turn the tables and you would be screaming bloody murder. I guess the entire planet should just prostrate themselves before the US.

You think it was wrong of President Bush to demand that the people that murdered thousands of our citizens be turned over to us for trial and execution?

Well, President Bush and America, and most of the rest of the world disagreed.

 

[Correll]

So, dullard it is.

Your inability to be serious is noted. My point stands. The Taliban hosted a terrorist organization that killed 2,000 American citizens, and when faced with a demand to turn them over to face Justice,

instead of taking that obvious route, choose to defend the mass murderers.


That was them choosing war. That was on them. That you want to make this about AMERICA, or ME, is just you being an anti-American piece of shit.

 

[Flopper]

We stopped being the "superpower" in Iraq. We couldn't even "win" in Afghan.

W pretty much whiffed. We had a short window after 9-11 to kill al queda at tora bora, and to use the soon to be decommissioned Kittyhawk that no longer had its air wing, to stage parts of the 101st, and the 82nd too. It would have been risky because Rwanda showed the difficulty of supply with no port. But we still had at the time the air power and missile to make hell on earth.

We were never going to get rid of the Taliban's view of Islam

Maybe its not a bad thing for the US to not have the capability of destroying any govt that doesn't have a nuclear deterrent.

It's not just the nuclear determent. The US has resources to put troops on the ground and/or missiles in almost every place on the globe in a matter a few hours if not a few days. The US is the only country on earth that fights wars thousands of miles from it's border. This is a significant determent for our enemies no matter how far away they may be; they are within reach of the US forces.

 

[basquebromance]

just the like the Soviets before them, unfortunately, America is retreating from Afghanistan...in defeat!

 

[basquebromance]

the Pakistani intelligence (ISI) would delay planned strikes in order to tell Taliban fighters to disperse

"working with the ISI would break your heart if you do it long enough", Senator John McCain once quipped

these sons of bitches kill Americans...enough is enough!

 

[basquebromance]

you can't kill your way out of a war

you need to win over the local folks, folks!

 

[Coyote]

No has ever “won” in Afghanistan except Afghanistan. The Brits tried. The Soviet’s tried. The US tried. No one ever,
learns....

 

[basquebromance]

No has ever “won” in Afghanistan except Afghanistan. The Brits tried. The Soviet’s tried. The US tried. No one ever,
learns....

they don't even have a stock market...or beauty pageants! there is no Mr Afghanistan!

 

[basquebromance]

you can't win wars through piecemeal drone attacks either, as Obama learned

the lesson from Vietnam was that aerial strikes, even a full bombardment, can accomplish litte

 

[Flopper]

you can't kill your way out of a war

you need to win over the local folks, folks!

As the both the Russians and the US learned that is no possible in Afghanistan because 90% of Afghans live in rural areas in tribal and kinship groups who are hardline Sunni and who support the Talban. They oppose just about everything aspect of American life.

 

[Correll]

As the both the Russians and the US learned that is no possible in Afghanistan because 90% of Afghans live in rural areas in tribal and kinship groups who are hardline Sunni and who support the Talban. They oppose just about everything aspect of American life.

Until Reagan started giving the Mujaheen Stingers, it was looking like the Russians were going to prove that you COULD kill your way out of a war, even in Afghanistan.


Their campaigns against the civilian population were going pretty well. Until those armored helicopters started blowing up.

 

[FA_Q2]

You think it was wrong of President Bush to demand that the people that murdered thousands of our citizens be turned over to us for trial and execution?

Well, President Bush and America, and most of the rest of the world disagreed.

No, I think it is wrong for you to state that they should bend over and say can I have another please without any proof or diplomacy involved. If you think pushing back because they doubt the veracity of US claims constitutes a right for us to vaporize your nation then you are nuts. I expect no less from the US, we should not be turning anyone over that is within our control if we do not think the claims are solid.