American Heroine,...Unsung

[PoliticalChic]

I am assuming that America had spies in the USSR, and in England, and many places in the world during WWII, and I also assume that we still have spies or agents spread around the world and even in the United States itself. Seems I read about conservatives being upset because of some monitoring in the US.
I also assume that the USSR had spies and agents in most European nations during its time and today Russia continues the practice.
Because there aren't a lot of books exposing the American or British espionage system does not mean we were not engaged. It is the books exposing the USSR's spy system that are selling and that largely because of the American political system. Spying is a world wide occupation and most nations are engaged.

Your post reeks of the insane moral equivalency that was inserted in you during the invasion of the body snatchers....i.e., the public school system.


Just what was it that we stole from the USSR via spying?

Do you think that FDR needed a tutorial to institute totalitarianism?

 

[PoliticalChic]

I am assuming that America had spies in the USSR, and in England, and many places in the world during WWII, and I also assume that we still have spies or agents spread around the world and even in the United States itself. Seems I read about conservatives being upset because of some monitoring in the US.
I also assume that the USSR had spies and agents in most European nations during its time and today Russia continues the practice.
Because there aren't a lot of books exposing the American or British espionage system does not mean we were not engaged. It is the books exposing the USSR's spy system that are selling and that largely because of the American political system. Spying is a world wide occupation and most nations are engaged.

Again you raise a strawman argument. No one here is claiming America does not spy on other nations TODAY. We are debating Soviet spying before, during, and just after WWII.

You will find, if you do your research, that America did little to no spying on the Soviets before and during WWII. Stalin's Stooge was warned about Soviet spying repeatedly and purposely chose to ignore those warnings. In fact, at the Tehran Conference he famously said to aides that he did not care if Uncle Joe was listening in on his private conversations. The guy was an amazing dupe and a diseased weakened dope...

I believe it may be time to post and OP on Rexford Tugwell, the FDR 'Brain Trust....'

 

[regent]

I am assuming that America had spies in the USSR, and in England, and many places in the world during WWII, and I also assume that we still have spies or agents spread around the world and even in the United States itself. Seems I read about conservatives being upset because of some monitoring in the US.
I also assume that the USSR had spies and agents in most European nations during its time and today Russia continues the practice.
Because there aren't a lot of books exposing the American or British espionage system does not mean we were not engaged. It is the books exposing the USSR's spy system that are selling and that largely because of the American political system. Spying is a world wide occupation and most nations are engaged.

Again you raise a strawman argument. No one here is claiming America does not spy on other nations TODAY. We are debating Soviet spying before, during, and just after WWII.

You will find, if you do your research, that America did little to no spying on the Soviets before and during WWII. Stalin's Stooge was warned about Soviet spying repeatedly and purposely chose to ignore those warnings. In fact, at the Tehran Conference he famously said to aides that he did not care if Uncle Joe was listening in on his private conversations. The guy was an amazing dupe and a diseased weakened dope...

I believe it may be time to post and OP on Rexford Tugwell, the FDR 'Brain Trust....'

When it was suggested to FDR that his room was bugged, he said he didn't care. In short, he was implying that he had nothing to hide. What should have been the correct response when FDR was told his room was bugged?

 

[gipper]

Again you raise a strawman argument. No one here is claiming America does not spy on other nations TODAY. We are debating Soviet spying before, during, and just after WWII.

You will find, if you do your research, that America did little to no spying on the Soviets before and during WWII. Stalin's Stooge was warned about Soviet spying repeatedly and purposely chose to ignore those warnings. In fact, at the Tehran Conference he famously said to aides that he did not care if Uncle Joe was listening in on his private conversations. The guy was an amazing dupe and a diseased weakened dope...

I believe it may be time to post and OP on Rexford Tugwell, the FDR 'Brain Trust....'

When it was suggested to FDR that his room was bugged, he said he didn't care. In short, he was implying that he had nothing to hide. What should have been the correct response when FDR was told his room was bugged?

Oh my my....you really are a dupe.

Apparently allowing histories most tyrannical murderous dictator access to all your private conversations, while you are the leader of the world's most powerful nation and negotiating with that tyrant about the future of Europe, is just fine with you.

 

[regent]

I believe it may be time to post and OP on Rexford Tugwell, the FDR 'Brain Trust....'

When it was suggested to FDR that his room was bugged, he said he didn't care. In short, he was implying that he had nothing to hide. What should have been the correct response when FDR was told his room was bugged?

Oh my my....you really are a dupe.

Apparently allowing histories most tyrannical murderous dictator access to all your private conversations, while you are the leader of the world's most powerful nation and negotiating with that tyrant about the future of Europe, is just fine with you.

You are assuming that they didn't have the good sense to realize their rooms were bugged and act accordingly. Do you suppose the Americans carried on their normal what-if conversations knowing their rooms were bugged? So what would a conservative president have said when an aid suggested their room was bugged?

 

[PoliticalChic]

When it was suggested to FDR that his room was bugged, he said he didn't care. In short, he was implying that he had nothing to hide. What should have been the correct response when FDR was told his room was bugged?

Oh my my....you really are a dupe.

Apparently allowing histories most tyrannical murderous dictator access to all your private conversations, while you are the leader of the world's most powerful nation and negotiating with that tyrant about the future of Europe, is just fine with you.

You are assuming that they didn't have the good sense to realize their rooms were bugged and act accordingly. Do you suppose the Americans carried on their normal what-if conversations knowing their rooms were bugged? So what would a conservative president have said when an aid suggested their room was bugged?

Your defense of the indefensible is diaphanous.


It wasn't that Roosevelt knew of said bugging and spoke appropriately.

Rather....he was fine with it.
And that should tell one all they need to know.


The major player in the Alger Hiss saga was fellow Communist, Whitaker Chambers. In his book, "Witness," Chambers explains is disillusionment as follows. In 1938, he determined not only to break with the Communist Party, but to inform on the Party when he could. The reason was that he was informed that Stalin was making efforts to align with Hitler, in 1939, and “from any human point of view, the pact was evil.”

As Hitler marched into Poland, Chambers arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelt’s assistant Sec’y of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelt’s administration, including Alger Hiss.

Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to go f--- himself. (Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator, p. 60)

No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss.

Almost a decade later, Chambers was called before the HUAC and named Hiss as a Soviet agent. Hiss sued Chambers, at which time Chambers presented “… four notes in Alger Hiss's handwriting, sixty-five typewritten copies of State Department documents and five strips of microfilm, some of which contained photographs of State Department documents. The press came to call these the "Pumpkin Papers"(Whittaker Chambers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) And, of course, all doubt was removed in 1995, when the Venona Soviet cables were decrypted.

 

[regent]

Oh my my....you really are a dupe.

Apparently allowing histories most tyrannical murderous dictator access to all your private conversations, while you are the leader of the world's most powerful nation and negotiating with that tyrant about the future of Europe, is just fine with you.

You are assuming that they didn't have the good sense to realize their rooms were bugged and act accordingly. Do you suppose the Americans carried on their normal what-if conversations knowing their rooms were bugged? So what would a conservative president have said when an aid suggested their room was bugged?

Your defense of the indefensible is diaphanous.


It wasn't that Roosevelt knew of said bugging and spoke appropriately.

Rather....he was fine with it.
And that should tell one all they need to know.


The major player in the Alger Hiss saga was fellow Communist, Whitaker Chambers. In his book, "Witness," Chambers explains is disillusionment as follows. In 1938, he determined not only to break with the Communist Party, but to inform on the Party when he could. The reason was that he was informed that Stalin was making efforts to align with Hitler, in 1939, and “from any human point of view, the pact was evil.”

As Hitler marched into Poland, Chambers arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelt’s assistant Sec’y of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelt’s administration, including Alger Hiss.

Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to go f--- himself. (Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator, p. 60)

No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss.

Almost a decade later, Chambers was called before the HUAC and named Hiss as a Soviet agent. Hiss sued Chambers, at which time Chambers presented “… four notes in Alger Hiss's handwriting, sixty-five typewritten copies of State Department documents and five strips of microfilm, some of which contained photographs of State Department documents. The press came to call these the "Pumpkin Papers"(Whittaker Chambers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) And, of course, all doubt was removed in 1995, when the Venona Soviet cables were decrypted.

So we go from a room being possibly bugged to Chambers, Hiss and the Venona cables. What is the evidence that the room was in fact bugged?

 

[gipper]

You are assuming that they didn't have the good sense to realize their rooms were bugged and act accordingly. Do you suppose the Americans carried on their normal what-if conversations knowing their rooms were bugged? So what would a conservative president have said when an aid suggested their room was bugged?

Your defense of the indefensible is diaphanous.


It wasn't that Roosevelt knew of said bugging and spoke appropriately.

Rather....he was fine with it.
And that should tell one all they need to know.


The major player in the Alger Hiss saga was fellow Communist, Whitaker Chambers. In his book, "Witness," Chambers explains is disillusionment as follows. In 1938, he determined not only to break with the Communist Party, but to inform on the Party when he could. The reason was that he was informed that Stalin was making efforts to align with Hitler, in 1939, and “from any human point of view, the pact was evil.”

As Hitler marched into Poland, Chambers arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelt’s assistant Sec’y of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelt’s administration, including Alger Hiss.

Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to go f--- himself. (Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator, p. 60)

No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss.

Almost a decade later, Chambers was called before the HUAC and named Hiss as a Soviet agent. Hiss sued Chambers, at which time Chambers presented “… four notes in Alger Hiss's handwriting, sixty-five typewritten copies of State Department documents and five strips of microfilm, some of which contained photographs of State Department documents. The press came to call these the "Pumpkin Papers"(Whittaker Chambers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) And, of course, all doubt was removed in 1995, when the Venona Soviet cables were decrypted.

So we go from a room being possibly bugged to Chambers, Hiss and the Venona cables. What is the evidence that the room was in fact bugged?

You miss the point. Stalin's Stooge was told the room was likely bugged and he cared not. That should be all you need to understand the fool's mindset. Why is it not?

And to believe that Stalin did not bug FDR's private quarters, is to believe in fairy tales. FDR was essentially 'bugged' by Stalin's spies before and during the war. That is a fact. Why do you persist in disputing facts?

 

[regent]

Your defense of the indefensible is diaphanous.


It wasn't that Roosevelt knew of said bugging and spoke appropriately.

Rather....he was fine with it.
And that should tell one all they need to know.


The major player in the Alger Hiss saga was fellow Communist, Whitaker Chambers. In his book, "Witness," Chambers explains is disillusionment as follows. In 1938, he determined not only to break with the Communist Party, but to inform on the Party when he could. The reason was that he was informed that Stalin was making efforts to align with Hitler, in 1939, and “from any human point of view, the pact was evil.”

As Hitler marched into Poland, Chambers arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelt’s assistant Sec’y of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelt’s administration, including Alger Hiss.

Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to go f--- himself. (Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator, p. 60)

No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss.

Almost a decade later, Chambers was called before the HUAC and named Hiss as a Soviet agent. Hiss sued Chambers, at which time Chambers presented “… four notes in Alger Hiss's handwriting, sixty-five typewritten copies of State Department documents and five strips of microfilm, some of which contained photographs of State Department documents. The press came to call these the "Pumpkin Papers"(Whittaker Chambers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) And, of course, all doubt was removed in 1995, when the Venona Soviet cables were decrypted.

So we go from a room being possibly bugged to Chambers, Hiss and the Venona cables. What is the evidence that the room was in fact bugged?

You miss the point. Stalin's Stooge was told the room was likely bugged and he cared not. That should be all you need to understand the fool's mindset. Why is it not?

And to believe that Stalin did not bug FDR's private quarters, is to believe in fairy tales. FDR was essentially 'bugged' by Stalin's spies before and during the war. That is a fact. Why do you persist in disputing facts?

I don't dispute the fact I just haven't seen the fact. So maybe tell us again about this guy coming into the room and saying, the room is bugged and that that turns into a fact?
I have this horse in the fifth at....

 

[gipper]

So we go from a room being possibly bugged to Chambers, Hiss and the Venona cables. What is the evidence that the room was in fact bugged?

You miss the point. Stalin's Stooge was told the room was likely bugged and he cared not. That should be all you need to understand the fool's mindset. Why is it not?

And to believe that Stalin did not bug FDR's private quarters, is to believe in fairy tales. FDR was essentially 'bugged' by Stalin's spies before and during the war. That is a fact. Why do you persist in disputing facts?

I don't dispute the fact I just haven't seen the fact. So maybe tell us again about this guy coming into the room and saying, the room is bugged and that that turns into a fact?
I have this horse in the fifth at....

Come on now. You are not making any sense.

If you are ignorant of history, just admit it. You are not alone.

 

[regent]

You miss the point. Stalin's Stooge was told the room was likely bugged and he cared not. That should be all you need to understand the fool's mindset. Why is it not?

And to believe that Stalin did not bug FDR's private quarters, is to believe in fairy tales. FDR was essentially 'bugged' by Stalin's spies before and during the war. That is a fact. Why do you persist in disputing facts?

I don't dispute the fact I just haven't seen the fact. So maybe tell us again about this guy coming into the room and saying, the room is bugged and that that turns into a fact?
I have this horse in the fifth at....

Come on now. You are not making any sense.

If you are ignorant of history, just admit it. You are not alone.

It has boiled down to a definition of a fact. The room may or may not have been bugged, one of the aids assumed it was, but an assumption is not a fact. FDR supposedly said he didn't care. If in fact FDR said that, was it was said, to indicate FDR had no secrets from the Russians or he really didn't care? Now we are beyond the fact.
I personally would believe the room was bugged and the FDR party knew it was bugged, but do I know this as fact? Most historians like to deal more with facts if possible, and most learn to distinguish fact and from assumptions, guesses, theories, conjectures and so on. They use all of those but hopefully they know the difference.