CDZ American Exceptionalism?

[dblack]

I argue that in my lifetime, the U.S. has done nothing that could or should inspire pride in anybody.

OK. But "pride" has nothing to do with "American Exceptionalism".

 

[MarathonMike]

The ends of our political spectrum.

Yes, but do you mean the people or the leaders?

 

[Mac1958]

Yes, but do you mean the people or the leaders?

The people, the most active in the parties. They intimidate the "leaders". The "leaders" then act accordingly.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

Sometimes I wonder if your sentiment isn't just a cycle that happens over and over. Has it always been like this where we all hate each other? I mean there was a literal civil war here once. We decided at least once before in history that we should all kill each other. Are current times actually that bad or is it a normal period of the U.S. state of existence?

Different things happen to different people at different times in their lives. Which means different opinions from different people, at any given stage of their lives.

If we were back in the 70's, I'd have a different opinion on everything. Of course, I wasn't out on my own, having to work and pay my own way at that time either.

The 80's were pretty much great, until all the corrupt, despicable corporations from up north started moving down here, ruining everything, corrupting other businesses and companies. And then it all went to hell.

People who were born into money, means, and status of course, do NOT have the same opinions as I do......since they can afford to exist in a decent state of being, without having to be stressed and anxiety ridden from working 2 jobs just to make rent. Everything is fine to them. They only worries they have is what new model Benz or Beemer to get, or what new designer has the most popular fashion line.

 

[Correll]

Not at all. I remember well the late 70s going to college and meeting all sorts of people from every walk of life. You could talk about anything, disagree violently but then it was "So where's the keg party tonight?" That is gone and probably never will return.

Ditto in the 80s. Though the warning signs were there.

 

[MarathonMike]

The people, the most active in the parties.

I assume when you use 'people' in this context, you mean powerful people such as corporate leaders and extremely wealthy people.

 

[Mac1958]

I assume when you use 'people' in this context, you mean powerful people such as corporate leaders and extremely wealthy people.

No, rank & file, and it goes from the street up.

 

[MarathonMike]

No, rank & file, and it goes from the street up.

I disagree. I believe that America is now basically run by the leaders of large corporations such as social media and drug companies for example (but not limited to). Along with that, extremely wealthy individuals, Bill Gates for example also use their money to buy political influence. Political leaders of both parties do their bidding and do not represent the interests of ordinary citizens. In fact all they do is lie to get re-elected and fill their pockets.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

I argue that in my lifetime, the U.S. has done nothing that could or should inspire pride in anybody.


Millennials reached an age where they became politically aware around the turn of the century. 9/11 was a big kick-starter of that awareness for a lot of us. Since that event we have:


- sent soldiers to die for nothing for 20 years in Middle Eastern wastelands

- created a surveillance state

- made it legal for monopolies to funnel unlimited amounts of money towards installing politicians

- allowed the economy to crash and held nobody to account for it (in fact the ones responsible were bailed out and grew their wealth)

- massively enriched the ruling class

- grown to absolutely despise each other

- succumbed to a pandemic where the poor were labelled as "essential workers" so they could be forced to risk their lives to keep providing wealthy and educated remote workers with McNuggets

- learned that billionaires do not pay taxes

- learned that corporations do not pay taxes

- learned that we're about to have ANOTHER recession


There's a lot more that could be added to that list, of course. Can anybody argue that this country has lived up to its reputation during any of the last 3 decades? For extra credit, would you tell us what it was like to live in a country that accomplished amazing things?

Pride in America is certainly about the foundational values and morals, and the strain to keep them alive so people can be free of tyranny.

As long as they are allowed to exist, there is hope. Obviously there is a party in America that wishes to vanquish these founding ideals.. that basic, obvious rights cannot be taken away for example.

America is a massive success with multiple blemishes.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Working together sounds good. Working to destroy each other bad idea.

Define "working together"

Because, our current president is all about "unity", but then bashes and attacks anyone who disagrees with him.

So, it's not about "coming together", its about using your power to get your opposition to "get in line", and attack their livelihoods and/or censor them until they are removed from the public domain. That's not unifying, that's authoritarian strong-arming.

 

[rupol2000]

I'm sure America is truly exceptional. It is the only country that has resisted both the Islamists and the leftist plague. It is the only real republic in the world, the only country with a professional army, the only country that has preserved the right-wing ideals of superman and cowboy against the background of the femenist degradation of the world, and so on. It is clear that the United States is unique and has its own unique American spirit of freedom and courage.

 

[rupol2000]

Because, our current president is all about "unity", but then bashes and attacks anyone who disagrees with him.

This is a ploy of leftist scammers. It is generally accepted that American democracy is stable precisely because of federalism and decentralization. The left first calls for unity, then pursues a policy of centralization and eventually establishes totalitarianism.

 

[Pellinore]

As long as we have the Constitution, we're exceptional. It's the best system there is to provide individual liberty and oppose authoritarianism, which goes a long way to explain why such an enormous and diverse country is still together.

We don't always live up to it, of course. There are a lot of people who only pretend to, in order to advance their own needs or just because they don't understand it, but by embracing education, responsibility, hard work, and looking out for each others' interests, we still have good to give to the world.

 

[surada]

I argue that in my lifetime, the U.S. has done nothing that could or should inspire pride in anybody.


Millennials reached an age where they became politically aware around the turn of the century. 9/11 was a big kick-starter of that awareness for a lot of us. Since that event we have:


- sent soldiers to die for nothing for 20 years in Middle Eastern wastelands

- created a surveillance state

- made it legal for monopolies to funnel unlimited amounts of money towards installing politicians

- allowed the economy to crash and held nobody to account for it (in fact the ones responsible were bailed out and grew their wealth)

- massively enriched the ruling class

- grown to absolutely despise each other

- succumbed to a pandemic where the poor were labelled as "essential workers" so they could be forced to risk their lives to keep providing wealthy and educated remote workers with McNuggets

- learned that billionaires do not pay taxes

- learned that corporations do not pay taxes

- learned that we're about to have ANOTHER recession


There's a lot more that could be added to that list, of course. Can anybody argue that this country has lived up to its reputation during any of the last 3 decades? For extra credit, would you tell us what it was like to live in a country that accomplished amazing things?

No..American exceptionalism is an ignorant , arrogant position. It makes me ashamed. We are better than that.. smarter than that and braver.. That's Trump crap.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

My theory has long been this: when people are miserable and unhappy because they are falures in life and have nothing valuble to offer others, they turn bitter and hateful. Instead of improving themselves, they just turn all that bitterness into a hatred for their own country which they blame for their own miserable failure.

When people are successful and contented with their life, they look around at the country in which they live and are thankful, instead, for the opportunity given them to be productive individuals with something to offer the world.

 

[Leviticus]

America hasnt been exceptional for a long time. We have fallen far behind in most areas. And our leaders have gotten so caught up in partisan tribalism that they will refuse to do things they actually think is right just so the other side cant get credit for it.
American Exceptionalism has become the banner of fake patriots who want to use misplaced national pride to distract people from real issues. They want people too busy chanting "USA" to realize what a shitty job their doing. And they attack anyone who actually wants to fix things, because their entire gimmick is based on false national pride, and pretending the US is perfect in every way, and anyone who thinks that something needs changed or fixed wants to destroy America.



Watch the opening scene of Newsroom. He puts it perfectly.

 

[Correll]

America hasnt been exceptional for a long time. We have fallen far behind in most areas. And our leaders have gotten so caught up in partisan tribalism that they will refuse to do things they actually think is right just so the other side cant get credit for it.
American Exceptionalism has become the banner of fake patriots who want to use misplaced national pride to distract people from real issues. They want people too busy chanting "USA" to realize what a shitty job their doing. And they attack anyone who actually wants to fix things, because their entire gimmick is based on false national pride, and pretending the US is perfect in every way, and anyone who thinks that something needs changed or fixed wants to destroy America.



Watch the opening scene of Newsroom. He puts it perfectly.

There is NOTHING about expressing patriotism that is pretending that the US "is perfect in every way".



There is not conflict between having Pride or Love for your Nation and not being open to valid, constructive criticism.



The ONLY people I have heard make the case that there is, are people who just want to rain on the parade of people who are truly Patriots.

 

[surada]

As long as we have the Constitution, we're exceptional. It's the best system there is to provide individual liberty and oppose authoritarianism, which goes a long way to explain why such an enormous and diverse country is still together.

We don't always live up to it, of course. There are a lot of people who only pretend to, in order to advance their own needs or just because they don't understand it, but by embracing education, responsibility, hard work, and looking out for each others' interests, we still have good to give to the world.

Pride in country is one thing but the invasion of Iraq is to me a symptom of "exceptionalism".

 

[Correll]

Pride in country is one thing but the invasion of Iraq is to me a symptom of "exceptionalism".

No BUT.


Pride in country is a good and healthy thing.

 

[ClaireH]

No it isn't. Necessity is the driving force of humanity.

Look up. Lots of international racing going on that will continue without pause until an over-abundance of space junk (already blocking telescope views) in low orbit “interferes ” with the race. Each country needs to recoup all of its junk starting with Russia, then China and all others.