America First. R U Sure?

[SavannahMann]

Trump has put into words the belief we have exhibited for decades. US military personnel do not fall under the World Court that we regularly use as an excuse to denounce others. Worse we claim justification through international law and demand adherence to that law while ignoring it ourselves.

What Krauthammer is upset about is that our words now match our actions. Assange has placed a condition on going to Sweden. He wants an assurance that he won't be turned over to the Americans. Sweden can't and won't guarantee that because they have a treaty with America. Italy has a treaty with us. Yet we won't extradite Robert Lady and twenty two others who have been convicted of crimes in Italy.

We have been the bully's in action for decades. Now our rhetoric matches our actions. Call it truth in advertising if you like.

Take NATO. It was created to stop the Soviet Union. I know that this is probably the first anyone has heard of it. But the Soviets were stopped and defeated. NATO ties us to Turkey that is trading with terrorists in Syria. We can't even protest it aloud for fear that it might cause a break in NATO. We are sworn to defend a nation that is funding terrorists.

If America First means we no longer are tied to Terrorist supporting regimes than I am all in favor. Our allies like Germany have stopped training their army. They can't afford to pay the troops overtime. German army forced to lay down weapons due to 'overtime limits'

I guess if we need NATO then the Germans will be there, at least from 9-5 Monday through Friday excluding holidays.

Tell me again the value to us of stretching our troops to the breaking point so the Germans can get through the week without burning up the overtime hours?

 

[miketx]

If conservative has any meaning, which seems as unlikely as ever, then Charles Krauthammer doesn't qualify. He's a textbook neoconservative, which means there's not a war on the planet he doesn't want the U.S. in the middle of, even if it has to start them. Regardless, "America First" was a non-interventionist organization that did want the U.S. to remain neutral in WWII, which is what most of the country wanted at that time as well. Unfortunately for everyone FDR had no interest in neutrality and favored the Allies all along and always intended to enter the war. Lindbergh was a member of the America First Committee, yes, but so were JFK and Gerald Ford and other notable people as well. Neocons love to bring up the dreaded specter of "isolationism," but the U.S. has been hyper-interventionist since the Spanish-American War. They also love to bring up Nazism and compare anyone not fuming for war to Neville Chamberlain. Forgive me if that's not a convincing argument.

Furthermore, it's clear that Trump is using the slogan America First without any of the principles that guided the America First Committee. If he actually shared their values he wouldn't be continuing Obama's drone war or having commandos do raids into Yemen.

This has nothing to do with WW2 or isolationism. You are as ignorant as possible. Making fair trade agreements for foreign countries is not the definition of isolationism. All you know how do is ejaculate leftist talking points.

You have no grasp of history or reading comprehension. Try again.

I love when idiot libs play the reading comprehension game. It's based on the libstain game of pretend, however.

 

[NCC1701]

Trump has put into words the belief we have exhibited for decades. US military personnel do not fall under the World Court that we regularly use as an excuse to denounce others. Worse we claim justification through international law and demand adherence to that law while ignoring it ourselves.

What Krauthammer is upset about is that our words now match our actions. Assange has placed a condition on going to Sweden. He wants an assurance that he won't be turned over to the Americans. Sweden can't and won't guarantee that because they have a treaty with America. Italy has a treaty with us. Yet we won't extradite Robert Lady and twenty two others who have been convicted of crimes in Italy.

We have been the bully's in action for decades. Now our rhetoric matches our actions. Call it truth in advertising if you like.

Take NATO. It was created to stop the Soviet Union. I know that this is probably the first anyone has heard of it. But the Soviets were stopped and defeated. NATO ties us to Turkey that is trading with terrorists in Syria. We can't even protest it aloud for fear that it might cause a break in NATO. We are sworn to defend a nation that is funding terrorists.

If America First means we no longer are tied to Terrorist supporting regimes than I am all in favor. Our allies like Germany have stopped training their army. They can't afford to pay the troops overtime. German army forced to lay down weapons due to 'overtime limits'

I guess if we need NATO then the Germans will be there, at least from 9-5 Monday through Friday excluding holidays.

Tell me again the value to us of stretching our troops to the breaking point so the Germans can get through the week without burning up the overtime hours?

exactly, it simply isn't fair that Canada spends 2% GDP while we spent 4% GDP on defense and supposedly we both get the same benefit. It is complete bullshit that I have to pay more for the west alliance than some canuck only a few hundred miles away. Then that same guy will smugly brag about how superior Canada is.

 

[miketx]

An American is having breakfast one morning; coffee, croissants, bread, butter & jam when a Canadian man, chewing gum, sits down next to him.

The American ignores the Canadian who, nevertheless, starts a conversation:

Canadian: "You American folk eat the whole bread??" American (in a bad mood): "Of course."

Canadian: (after blowing a huge bubble) "We don't. In Canada, we only eat what's inside. The crusts we collect in a container, recycle it, transform them into croissants and sell them to the states." The Canadian has a smirk on his face.

The American listens in silence.

The Canadian persists: "Do you eat jelly with the bread??"

American: "Of Course."

Canadian: (cracking his gum between his teeth and chuckling). "We don't. In Canada we eat fresh fruit for breakfast, then we put all the peels, seeds, and leftovers in containers, recycle them, transform them into jam and sell the jam to the states."

The American then asks: "Do you have sex in Canada?"

Canadian: "Why of course we do", the Canadian says with a big smirk.

American: And what do you do with the condoms once you've used them?"

Canadian: "We throw them away, of course."

American: "We don't. In America, we put them in a container, recycle them, melt them down into chewing gum and sell them to Canada.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If conservative has any meaning, which seems as unlikely as ever, then Charles Krauthammer doesn't qualify. He's a textbook neoconservative, which means there's not a war on the planet he doesn't want the U.S. in the middle of, even if it has to start them. Regardless, "America First" was a non-interventionist organization that did want the U.S. to remain neutral in WWII, which is what most of the country wanted at that time as well. Unfortunately for everyone FDR had no interest in neutrality and favored the Allies all along and always intended to enter the war. Lindbergh was a member of the America First Committee, yes, but so were JFK and Gerald Ford and other notable people as well. Neocons love to bring up the dreaded specter of "isolationism," but the U.S. has been hyper-interventionist since the Spanish-American War. They also love to bring up Nazism and compare anyone not fuming for war to Neville Chamberlain. Forgive me if that's not a convincing argument.

Furthermore, it's clear that Trump is using the slogan America First without any of the principles that guided the America First Committee. If he actually shared their values he wouldn't be continuing Obama's drone war or having commandos do raids into Yemen.

This has nothing to do with WW2 or isolationism. You are as ignorant as possible. Making fair trade agreements for foreign countries is not the definition of isolationism. All you know how do is ejaculate leftist talking points.

You have no grasp of history or reading comprehension. Try again.

I love when idiot libs play the reading comprehension game. It's based on the libstain game of pretend, however.

Are you doing your best imitation of that other historical group, the Know-Nothings?

 

[OldLady]

“The wealth of our middle class has been ripped from their homes and then redistributed all across the world.”
Damn right! We got less rich, so poor countries could get less poor. Fuck exceptionalism.

And why did we do that, TN? What does Krauthammer say is behind it? Is the reason for that now gone? I guess we'll find out.
I don't agree with Krauthammer much of the time, but I respect his smarts. He's been studying this stuff a long, long time and he doesn't form his opinion based on the latest fad from the Republican party.

I said fuck exceptionalism. And if you think what we have now is "free trade", you are mistaken. Our trade deals are corporate whores.
Our rich get richer and our middle class gets poorer. No thanks.

I'm more concerned about the foreign relations piece and how it effects us if there is a serious military threat. Of course trade deals enter into that, I realize they do. But I don't think Krauthammer is primarily talking about trade, is he?

I'm more concerned about the foreign relations piece and how it effects us if there is a serious military threat.
Who comes to the aid of the top dog?
Also, even if we pissed off the entire EU and we got invaded by Russia AND China (only way we would get messed up) they would STILL come to us. If we fell like that, they would be next.
The entire OP is a biased hack job.
But I will give the hack credit.. the markets crashed just like he said they woul.....
oh wait, nevermind
Boom: Dow hits 20,000 for first time ever

I don't get it. You think if we stop extending financial and military aid to our allies, that they won't go somewhere else (fill in the blank) for it? You think they'll follow us anyway? If we were invaded by Russia it would be AFTER all the EU had fallen, TN. After we were no longer interested in helping them. That's how I see it.

 

[TNHarley]

“The wealth of our middle class has been ripped from their homes and then redistributed all across the world.”
Damn right! We got less rich, so poor countries could get less poor. Fuck exceptionalism.

And why did we do that, TN? What does Krauthammer say is behind it? Is the reason for that now gone? I guess we'll find out.
I don't agree with Krauthammer much of the time, but I respect his smarts. He's been studying this stuff a long, long time and he doesn't form his opinion based on the latest fad from the Republican party.

I said fuck exceptionalism. And if you think what we have now is "free trade", you are mistaken. Our trade deals are corporate whores.
Our rich get richer and our middle class gets poorer. No thanks.

I'm more concerned about the foreign relations piece and how it effects us if there is a serious military threat. Of course trade deals enter into that, I realize they do. But I don't think Krauthammer is primarily talking about trade, is he?

I'm more concerned about the foreign relations piece and how it effects us if there is a serious military threat.
Who comes to the aid of the top dog?
Also, even if we pissed off the entire EU and we got invaded by Russia AND China (only way we would get messed up) they would STILL come to us. If we fell like that, they would be next.
The entire OP is a biased hack job.
But I will give the hack credit.. the markets crashed just like he said they woul.....
oh wait, nevermind
Boom: Dow hits 20,000 for first time ever

I don't get it. You think if we stop extending financial and military aid to our allies, that they won't go somewhere else (fill in the blank) for it? You think they'll follow us anyway? If we were invaded by Russia it would be AFTER all the EU had fallen, TN. After we were no longer interested in helping them. That's how I see it.

You think trump would let the EU fall?
And no, the rest of the world couldn't afford for us to be wiped out if Russia and china are tag teaming us. They would be next.

 

[sealybobo]

I quit listening to that asshole months ago. He was wrong about everything during the race. He's a waste of time these days. Provocative cabinet picks? Why, because they aren't RINOs? Globalism is what's killing us, I guess Charlie is sitting pretty but many Americans are not.

So you put global robber barons in charge? LOL. Holy cow how dumb r u?

Remember you guys said Obama was embarrassing us around the world? Yea, we miss Obama already. LOL. Trump is embarrassing and dangerous. I love it! Told you so. na na na

 

[TNHarley]

I quit listening to that asshole months ago. He was wrong about everything during the race. He's a waste of time these days. Provocative cabinet picks? Why, because they aren't RINOs? Globalism is what's killing us, I guess Charlie is sitting pretty but many Americans are not.

So you put global robber barons in charge? LOL. Holy cow how dumb r u?

Remember you guys said Obama was embarrassing us around the world? Yea, we miss Obama already. LOL. Trump is embarrassing and dangerous. I love it! Told you so. na na na

lol wtf

 

[sealybobo]

I quit listening to that asshole months ago. He was wrong about everything during the race. He's a waste of time these days. Provocative cabinet picks? Why, because they aren't RINOs? Globalism is what's killing us, I guess Charlie is sitting pretty but many Americans are not.

So you put global robber barons in charge? LOL. Holy cow how dumb r u?

Remember you guys said Obama was embarrassing us around the world? Yea, we miss Obama already. LOL. Trump is embarrassing and dangerous. I love it! Told you so. na na na

lol wtf

The Chaos Candidate Becomes The Chaos President | The Huffington Post

Donald Trump’s White House starts off with a first week that alarms even Republicans.

 

[sealybobo]

 

[Correll]

“The wealth of our middle class has been ripped from their homes and then redistributed all across the world.”
Damn right! We got less rich, so poor countries could get less poor. Fuck exceptionalism.

And why did we do that, TN? What does Krauthammer say is behind it? Is the reason for that now gone? I guess we'll find out.
I don't agree with Krauthammer much of the time, but I respect his smarts. He's been studying this stuff a long, long time and he doesn't form his opinion based on the latest fad from the Republican party.

I said fuck exceptionalism. And if you think what we have now is "free trade", you are mistaken. Our trade deals are corporate whores.
Our rich get richer and our middle class gets poorer. No thanks.

I'm more concerned about the foreign relations piece and how it effects us if there is a serious military threat. Of course trade deals enter into that, I realize they do. But I don't think Krauthammer is primarily talking about trade, is he?

I'm more concerned about the foreign relations piece and how it effects us if there is a serious military threat.
Who comes to the aid of the top dog?
Also, even if we pissed off the entire EU and we got invaded by Russia AND China (only way we would get messed up) they would STILL come to us. If we fell like that, they would be next.
The entire OP is a biased hack job.
But I will give the hack credit.. the markets crashed just like he said they woul.....
oh wait, nevermind
Boom: Dow hits 20,000 for first time ever

I don't get it. You think if we stop extending financial and military aid to our allies, that they won't go somewhere else (fill in the blank) for it? You think they'll follow us anyway? If we were invaded by Russia it would be AFTER all the EU had fallen, TN. After we were no longer interested in helping them. That's how I see it.

Russia is a pale shadow of the Soviet Union.

It is not a threat to Europe, and certainly not US.

 

[NCC1701]

“The wealth of our middle class has been ripped from their homes and then redistributed all across the world.”
Damn right! We got less rich, so poor countries could get less poor. Fuck exceptionalism.

And why did we do that, TN? What does Krauthammer say is behind it? Is the reason for that now gone? I guess we'll find out.
I don't agree with Krauthammer much of the time, but I respect his smarts. He's been studying this stuff a long, long time and he doesn't form his opinion based on the latest fad from the Republican party.

I said fuck exceptionalism. And if you think what we have now is "free trade", you are mistaken. Our trade deals are corporate whores.
Our rich get richer and our middle class gets poorer. No thanks.

I'm more concerned about the foreign relations piece and how it effects us if there is a serious military threat. Of course trade deals enter into that, I realize they do. But I don't think Krauthammer is primarily talking about trade, is he?

I'm more concerned about the foreign relations piece and how it effects us if there is a serious military threat.
Who comes to the aid of the top dog?
Also, even if we pissed off the entire EU and we got invaded by Russia AND China (only way we would get messed up) they would STILL come to us. If we fell like that, they would be next.
The entire OP is a biased hack job.
But I will give the hack credit.. the markets crashed just like he said they woul.....
oh wait, nevermind
Boom: Dow hits 20,000 for first time ever

I don't get it. You think if we stop extending financial and military aid to our allies, that they won't go somewhere else (fill in the blank) for it? You think they'll follow us anyway? If we were invaded by Russia it would be AFTER all the EU had fallen, TN. After we were no longer interested in helping them. That's how I see it.

So Germany would turn to who for 'aid'? wtf, who else has the bucks or wherewithal to 'aid' a nation of very wealthy people?

 

[OldLady]

As I feared, this thread is quickly going over my head. I never professed to be an "expert," but my biggest concern about Trump has always been this isolationist policy. I don't think it will be a positive outcome, and it worries me. I don't criticize every breath Trump takes just because I didn't vote for him. And I agree with SavannahMann that Turkey should be kicked out of NATO for what it has done in the past year. But we don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. We are one of the richest countries in the world. We do pay more to keep allies free as a bulwark against totalitarian regimes that would happily take them--and then us. That is in our best interests, imo.

 

[TNHarley]

I quit listening to that asshole months ago. He was wrong about everything during the race. He's a waste of time these days. Provocative cabinet picks? Why, because they aren't RINOs? Globalism is what's killing us, I guess Charlie is sitting pretty but many Americans are not.

So you put global robber barons in charge? LOL. Holy cow how dumb r u?

Remember you guys said Obama was embarrassing us around the world? Yea, we miss Obama already. LOL. Trump is embarrassing and dangerous. I love it! Told you so. na na na

lol wtf

The Chaos Candidate Becomes The Chaos President | The Huffington Post

Donald Trump’s White House starts off with a first week that alarms even Republicans.

Another article about how Trump is an idiot? Color me shocked.

 

[Virginia Mom]

I quit listening to that asshole months ago. He was wrong about everything during the race. He's a waste of time these days. Provocative cabinet picks? Why, because they aren't RINOs? Globalism is what's killing us, I guess Charlie is sitting pretty but many Americans are not.

So you put global robber barons in charge? LOL. Holy cow how dumb r u?

Remember you guys said Obama was embarrassing us around the world? Yea, we miss Obama already. LOL. Trump is embarrassing and dangerous. I love it! Told you so. na na na

I don't miss Obama, and President Trump is not embarrassing me at all. Many are just jumping on the hate and fear mongering train, hopefully they will get all that hate out before more cars are torched, windows of businesses broken, and young women's hair set on fire. Maybe they will be satisfied when some innocent people are injured or killed. Ahh, the love trumps hate people. Sorry so many fell off their high horses. I thought they were so much better and superior to us deplorables.

 

[TNHarley]

As I feared, this thread is quickly going over my head. I never professed to be an "expert," but my biggest concern about Trump has always been this isolationist policy. I don't think it will be a positive outcome, and it worries me. I don't criticize every breath Trump takes just because I didn't vote for him. And I agree with SavannahMann that Turkey should be kicked out of NATO for what it has done in the past year. But we don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. We are one of the richest countries in the world. We do pay more to keep allies free as a bulwark against totalitarian regimes that would happily take them--and then us. That is in our best interests, imo.

"isolationist" is such a strong word. I fear you don't fully understand what that actually means.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

As I feared, this thread is quickly going over my head. I never professed to be an "expert," but my biggest concern about Trump has always been this isolationist policy. I don't think it will be a positive outcome, and it worries me. I don't criticize every breath Trump takes just because I didn't vote for him. And I agree with SavannahMann that Turkey should be kicked out of NATO for what it has done in the past year. But we don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. We are one of the richest countries in the world. We do pay more to keep allies free as a bulwark against totalitarian regimes that would happily take them--and then us. That is in our best interests, imo.

What isolationist policy? What on Earth are you talking about?

 

[sealybobo]

And why did we do that, TN? What does Krauthammer say is behind it? Is the reason for that now gone? I guess we'll find out.
I don't agree with Krauthammer much of the time, but I respect his smarts. He's been studying this stuff a long, long time and he doesn't form his opinion based on the latest fad from the Republican party.

I said fuck exceptionalism. And if you think what we have now is "free trade", you are mistaken. Our trade deals are corporate whores.
Our rich get richer and our middle class gets poorer. No thanks.

I'm more concerned about the foreign relations piece and how it effects us if there is a serious military threat. Of course trade deals enter into that, I realize they do. But I don't think Krauthammer is primarily talking about trade, is he?

I'm more concerned about the foreign relations piece and how it effects us if there is a serious military threat.
Who comes to the aid of the top dog?
Also, even if we pissed off the entire EU and we got invaded by Russia AND China (only way we would get messed up) they would STILL come to us. If we fell like that, they would be next.
The entire OP is a biased hack job.
But I will give the hack credit.. the markets crashed just like he said they woul.....
oh wait, nevermind
Boom: Dow hits 20,000 for first time ever

I don't get it. You think if we stop extending financial and military aid to our allies, that they won't go somewhere else (fill in the blank) for it? You think they'll follow us anyway? If we were invaded by Russia it would be AFTER all the EU had fallen, TN. After we were no longer interested in helping them. That's how I see it.

Russia is a pale shadow of the Soviet Union.

It is not a threat to Europe, and certainly not US.

It was so important to you that they like us. They like Trump better than Hillary. That was a selling point you said. But now England, Mexico, Canada and Germany don't like Trump. Do you care?

 

[OldLady]

And why did we do that, TN? What does Krauthammer say is behind it? Is the reason for that now gone? I guess we'll find out.
I don't agree with Krauthammer much of the time, but I respect his smarts. He's been studying this stuff a long, long time and he doesn't form his opinion based on the latest fad from the Republican party.

I said fuck exceptionalism. And if you think what we have now is "free trade", you are mistaken. Our trade deals are corporate whores.
Our rich get richer and our middle class gets poorer. No thanks.

I'm more concerned about the foreign relations piece and how it effects us if there is a serious military threat. Of course trade deals enter into that, I realize they do. But I don't think Krauthammer is primarily talking about trade, is he?

I'm more concerned about the foreign relations piece and how it effects us if there is a serious military threat.
Who comes to the aid of the top dog?
Also, even if we pissed off the entire EU and we got invaded by Russia AND China (only way we would get messed up) they would STILL come to us. If we fell like that, they would be next.
The entire OP is a biased hack job.
But I will give the hack credit.. the markets crashed just like he said they woul.....
oh wait, nevermind
Boom: Dow hits 20,000 for first time ever

I don't get it. You think if we stop extending financial and military aid to our allies, that they won't go somewhere else (fill in the blank) for it? You think they'll follow us anyway? If we were invaded by Russia it would be AFTER all the EU had fallen, TN. After we were no longer interested in helping them. That's how I see it.

Russia is a pale shadow of the Soviet Union.

It is not a threat to Europe, and certainly not US.

Why don't you ask Eastern Europe about that? Or Ukraine? They live there and they are quite concerned, I hear.