America Doesn't Have The Moral Justification To Enter Into the Israel/Iran War!

JimofPennsylvan

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The consensus being promulgated in the media is that President Trump is going to use America's B-2 bomber to drop America's GBU-57 bunker buster bombs (30,000 pound) on Iran's Fordow Nuclear weapons facility. President Trump shouldn't do it because he doesn't have moral justification to do it. Doing such a bombing on an Iranian facility is an act of war against Iran. Assuming Iranian leaders had made the decision to build a nuclear bomb and would be weeks away from actually building one it still would not provide justification to bomb the Fordow facility to commit an act of war unless there was proof that Iran was planning to use the weapon and there is no such evidence and such a possibility seems almost a non-existent threat because if Iran was to use it the act would be against Israel and Israel has numerous nuclear weapons and the ability to deliver them on Iran at will so Israel has the ability to essentially completely destroy Iran at least five time over with nuclear weapons and Iran's leaders know this and so they are not about to do something so stupid that it is insane which is to get into a nuclear war with Israel. It is not even responsible to believe that Iran's leader who is the only person with the power to make a decision to build a nuclear bomb, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, made such a decision. In March of this year America's chief intelligence officer Tulsi Gabbard testified before Congress that America's intelligence at the time indicated that Iran was not actually pursuing building a nuclear bomb; for twenty years Iran had the "know how" to build a nuclear bomb why all of a sudden in the last three months with America's President Trump green lighting almost anything that Israel's hawkish government wants to do would Iran's government decide to build a nuclear bomb it makes no sense it is a suicidal act! Why did Iran have a huge inventory of uranium enriched to 60 percent in 2025; such a level of enrichment to 60 percent began in 2021 as a result of a sabotage incident at an Iranian facility; and offering to reduce the enriched level of its uranium offered a good concession for Iran when they negotiated such a term way back in 2015 with President Obama. Further, America has a long history of disagreeing on the intelligence assessments about Iran's nuclear program with Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu where Prime Minister Netanyahu gives ominous warnings about the danger of Iran getting a nuclear weapon contrary to U.S. intelligence and the Free World's assessments why is the U.S. government all of a sudden forsaking using scrutiny and taking Israeli's government assessments as gospel.

America has long supplied Israel with aerial bombs in its wars with its Middle Eastern enemies so giving Israel bunker busting bombs to destroy the Iran Fordow site isn't a big increase in America's involvement with Israel's military conflict. The problem is that this big bunker busting bomb the GBU-57 the Massive Ordinance Penetrator is too heavy for Israel combat planes so America can't just give this bomb to Israel and say go finish you mission about taking out this key Iran nuclear weapon site - America uses one of its big planes the B-2 to carry and drop the GBU-57 and this is why the Trump administration is planning to use U.S. B-2 pilots to bomb and destroy this Fordow site. Why aren't members of Congress offering and advocating a third option here which would be to give Israel America's second tier penetrating missiles the GBU-72 (5000 pound) bomb Israel planes could carry and drop this bomb. It would take multiple sorties by IDF pilots on the Fordow site to really destroy it but no big deal the IDF has air superiority and free reign for its pilots over Iran. The U.S. could also give the Israeli government the BLU -82 "Daisy Cutter" and GBU 43 "Mother of All Bombs" to drop them on the Fordow site to clear out the debris from the GBU-72 bombs to assess if the job is done and if more bombing is needed.

If the Trump Administration begins aerial bombing of Iran by many bad actors this will be considered as U.S. entering the Iran/Israel war on the side of Israel and what will be the consequences of this? Terrorist groups and lone wolf terrorists will attack Americans because they all see this Iran/Israel war as an extension of the fight of the Palestinian people to get their own state and stop having to live under the Israel government oppression! The fallout of this move by the Trump Administration will cost a significant number of Americans their lives at the hands of terrorists warning a tough response against terrorists by the Trump administration won't bring back or restore to health these killed and injured Americans. Everybody knows this move by President Trump to enter into the Iran war is coming down the pike why aren't members of both chambers of Congress passing a resolution saying to President Trump don't do this it is not in the best interest of the American people, it will be perceived as an act of war against Iran and the American people don't want to get into this war! Even members of Congress who are staunch allies of Israel don't want the Trump administration to send U.S. pilots to bomb Iran, Congress needs to not fail the American people here and stop this giant mistake!

Watching President Trump comment about this whole Iran/Israel war that has been unfolding over the last week President Trump seems to lack wisdom he seems to not understand who he is dealing with in the leader of Iran. Ayatollah Khamenei isn't a business leader that looks at things solely from a practical standpoint like I have suffered big practical losses how do I stop or mitigate it. Ayatollah Khamenei sees himself as a spiritual leader of a religion that cherishes jihad meaning he would be prepared to sacrifice many Iranians lives to uphold important Iranian principles. It is completely off the mark to think that the Ayatollah Khamenei is going to permanently give up the right to enrich uranium, many experts are making this assessment of don't have these completely unrealistic expectations. Moreover, the Ayatollah Khamenei will never agree to an unconditional surrender; hundreds if not thousands of Iranians giving their life in fighting Israel is not a problem for him whatsoever remember this leader is responsible for the killing and abusing hundreds if not thousands of young Iranians as a consequence of their opposition to the Iranian government over the murder of Mahsa Amini, Iran's theocracy objectives are paramount. President Trump would be smart to see things with wisdom. Prime Minister Netanyahu is not a wise leader he is not a leader that offers peace to his people he is as strong and tough as an Israeli leader comes but no Israeli leader can bring peace to his people through brutality and military force. The media as they often do promulgates the Israeli government narrative on current events which is that the Israeli government has had this spectacular victory and isn't shocking at how little the Iranian government was able to fight back; well the truth of the matter is that the Iranian government is in the drivers seat right now because Prime Minister Netanyahu doesn't have the power to stop this war and his people from being hurt. It hurts the Israeli people in being under constant threat of a missile barrage, it to a significant degree paralysis the Israeli economy, Israel has a big tourism economy tourists today don't want to travel into an active war zone. The Israel air force has destroyed a lot of Iran's missile manufacturing capacity and a lot of Iran's missile launchers but Iran is a big country and missile technology is not cutting edge the Israel government is not going to shut down the Iranian government's capacity to manufacture missiles and fire them at Israel! Prime Minister Netanyahu was not a smart leader in entering into this war with Iran where the timing of the end of the conflict is unknown and the Israeli government cannot control it and if President Trump wants to be a smart leader he will not tie his fate with Prime Minister Netanyahu who has acted unwise and reckless here!
 
Why don't you compose your thoughts before posting?

1. Is it moral for the US to oppose Iran producing nuclear weapons?
2. If yes, how should the US go about doing this?
3. If negotiation fails, should the US take direct action against Iran?
4. If yes, what action should that include?

If you can't or won't answer these questions, your opinions on this subject are worthless.
 
You don't need a moral justification to start a war.
 
The consensus being promulgated in the media is that President Trump is going to use America's B-2 bomber to drop America's GBU-57 bunker buster bombs (30,000 pound) on Iran's Fordow Nuclear weapons facility. President Trump shouldn't do it because he doesn't have moral justification to do it. Doing such a bombing on an Iranian facility is an act of war against Iran. Assuming Iranian leaders had made the decision to build a nuclear bomb and would be weeks away from actually building one it still would not provide justification to bomb the Fordow facility to commit an act of war unless there was proof that Iran was planning to use the weapon and there is no such evidence and such a possibility seems almost a non-existent threat because if Iran was to use it the act would be against Israel and Israel has numerous nuclear weapons and the ability to deliver them on Iran at will so Israel has the ability to essentially completely destroy Iran at least five time over with nuclear weapons and Iran's leaders know this and so they are not about to do something so stupid that it is insane which is to get into a nuclear war with Israel. It is not even responsible to believe that Iran's leader who is the only person with the power to make a decision to build a nuclear bomb, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, made such a decision. In March of this year America's chief intelligence officer Tulsi Gabbard testified before Congress that America's intelligence at the time indicated that Iran was not actually pursuing building a nuclear bomb; for twenty years Iran had the "know how" to build a nuclear bomb why all of a sudden in the last three months with America's President Trump green lighting almost anything that Israel's hawkish government wants to do would Iran's government decide to build a nuclear bomb it makes no sense it is a suicidal act! Why did Iran have a huge inventory of uranium enriched to 60 percent in 2025; such a level of enrichment to 60 percent began in 2021 as a result of a sabotage incident at an Iranian facility; and offering to reduce the enriched level of its uranium offered a good concession for Iran when they negotiated such a term way back in 2015 with President Obama. Further, America has a long history of disagreeing on the intelligence assessments about Iran's nuclear program with Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu where Prime Minister Netanyahu gives ominous warnings about the danger of Iran getting a nuclear weapon contrary to U.S. intelligence and the Free World's assessments why is the U.S. government all of a sudden forsaking using scrutiny and taking Israeli's government assessments as gospel.

America has long supplied Israel with aerial bombs in its wars with its Middle Eastern enemies so giving Israel bunker busting bombs to destroy the Iran Fordow site isn't a big increase in America's involvement with Israel's military conflict. The problem is that this big bunker busting bomb the GBU-57 the Massive Ordinance Penetrator is too heavy for Israel combat planes so America can't just give this bomb to Israel and say go finish you mission about taking out this key Iran nuclear weapon site - America uses one of its big planes the B-2 to carry and drop the GBU-57 and this is why the Trump administration is planning to use U.S. B-2 pilots to bomb and destroy this Fordow site. Why aren't members of Congress offering and advocating a third option here which would be to give Israel America's second tier penetrating missiles the GBU-72 (5000 pound) bomb Israel planes could carry and drop this bomb. It would take multiple sorties by IDF pilots on the Fordow site to really destroy it but no big deal the IDF has air superiority and free reign for its pilots over Iran. The U.S. could also give the Israeli government the BLU -82 "Daisy Cutter" and GBU 43 "Mother of All Bombs" to drop them on the Fordow site to clear out the debris from the GBU-72 bombs to assess if the job is done and if more bombing is needed.

If the Trump Administration begins aerial bombing of Iran by many bad actors this will be considered as U.S. entering the Iran/Israel war on the side of Israel and what will be the consequences of this? Terrorist groups and lone wolf terrorists will attack Americans because they all see this Iran/Israel war as an extension of the fight of the Palestinian people to get their own state and stop having to live under the Israel government oppression! The fallout of this move by the Trump Administration will cost a significant number of Americans their lives at the hands of terrorists warning a tough response against terrorists by the Trump administration won't bring back or restore to health these killed and injured Americans. Everybody knows this move by President Trump to enter into the Iran war is coming down the pike why aren't members of both chambers of Congress passing a resolution saying to President Trump don't do this it is not in the best interest of the American people, it will be perceived as an act of war against Iran and the American people don't want to get into this war! Even members of Congress who are staunch allies of Israel don't want the Trump administration to send U.S. pilots to bomb Iran, Congress needs to not fail the American people here and stop this giant mistake!

Watching President Trump comment about this whole Iran/Israel war that has been unfolding over the last week President Trump seems to lack wisdom he seems to not understand who he is dealing with in the leader of Iran. Ayatollah Khamenei isn't a business leader that looks at things solely from a practical standpoint like I have suffered big practical losses how do I stop or mitigate it. Ayatollah Khamenei sees himself as a spiritual leader of a religion that cherishes jihad meaning he would be prepared to sacrifice many Iranians lives to uphold important Iranian principles. It is completely off the mark to think that the Ayatollah Khamenei is going to permanently give up the right to enrich uranium, many experts are making this assessment of don't have these completely unrealistic expectations. Moreover, the Ayatollah Khamenei will never agree to an unconditional surrender; hundreds if not thousands of Iranians giving their life in fighting Israel is not a problem for him whatsoever remember this leader is responsible for the killing and abusing hundreds if not thousands of young Iranians as a consequence of their opposition to the Iranian government over the murder of Mahsa Amini, Iran's theocracy objectives are paramount. President Trump would be smart to see things with wisdom. Prime Minister Netanyahu is not a wise leader he is not a leader that offers peace to his people he is as strong and tough as an Israeli leader comes but no Israeli leader can bring peace to his people through brutality and military force. The media as they often do promulgates the Israeli government narrative on current events which is that the Israeli government has had this spectacular victory and isn't shocking at how little the Iranian government was able to fight back; well the truth of the matter is that the Iranian government is in the drivers seat right now because Prime Minister Netanyahu doesn't have the power to stop this war and his people from being hurt. It hurts the Israeli people in being under constant threat of a missile barrage, it to a significant degree paralysis the Israeli economy, Israel has a big tourism economy tourists today don't want to travel into an active war zone. The Israel air force has destroyed a lot of Iran's missile manufacturing capacity and a lot of Iran's missile launchers but Iran is a big country and missile technology is not cutting edge the Israel government is not going to shut down the Iranian government's capacity to manufacture missiles and fire them at Israel! Prime Minister Netanyahu was not a smart leader in entering into this war with Iran where the timing of the end of the conflict is unknown and the Israeli government cannot control it and if President Trump wants to be a smart leader he will not tie his fate with Prime Minister Netanyahu who has acted unwise and reckless here!
Mullahs are rather insane, that being said, this seems a no brainier. It would be just as easy for North Korea or China to gift them some.
 
Any U.S. Military intervention would force Russia to react. Our country uses military force against one of Putin's primary trading partners, Putin will be forced to act. WWIII in the offing. I for one don't see NATO wanting this to happen. 47 is mentally unstable and needs to be stopped.
 
Why don't you compose your thoughts before posting?

1. Is it moral for the US to oppose Iran producing nuclear weapons?
2. If yes, how should the US go about doing this?
3. If negotiation fails, should the US take direct action against Iran?
4. If yes, what action should that include?

If you can't or won't answer these questions, your opinions on this subject are worthless.

Okay, let me take a stab at it.

The US had a treaty with Iran and our own intel agencies determined Iran is not trying to build a bomb.

If the US was serious about stopping Iran from building a bomb, we never should have scrapped JCPOA, which was keeping the Iranians from building a bomb and they gave up 97% of their fissionable materials.

No, the US shouldn't take direct action, and we need to tell the Zionists to knock it the **** off.

If the goal is "regime change", then that doesn't solve the problem. If the Ayatollahs are replaced by their military or some revolutionary group, do you think they are going to start loving the "Great Satan"?
 
The U.S. has the moral justification and the imperative to save the world from nuclear war. If it means the use of a single bunker buster bomb so be it.
It's LONG OVERDUE that the world stop taking shit off Iran. That little yipper dog needs a good kick.
 
Imagine you have a next door neighbor who, for no apparent reason, has publicly declared that he is going to blow up your house, with you and your family in it. He proceeds to buy the chemicals necessary to make explosive materials and does experiments in his basement, just waiting for the day when he has the expertise and sufficient exploding material to blow up your house (and the houses of anyone else he doesn't like).

Do his public declarations and provable basement activities warrant your preemptively taking action to keep it from happening?

I say, Yes.

As for President Trump, there is no "three-dimensional chess" going on here. The MINUTE the Iranians directly attack U.S. assets in the region, killing American soldiers, President Trump will authorize our Armed Forces to take OFFENSIVE action against the Iranian regime.

Until that time, our forces will assist the Israeli forces with targeting appropriate Iranian facilities and people, tracking incoming assets for the purpose of intercepting them, and providing whatever other services are requested.

President Trump is reluctant, as we all are, to FORCE regime change. These activities seem never to work out as planned. But if the Iranian people overthrow their government, that would be perfectly fine, and Trump would not interfere with the head Mullah going off into exile, in Russia or elsewhere.

This is not complicated.
 
Mullahs are rather insane, that being said, this seems a no brainier. It would be just as easy for North Korea or China to gift them some.

Newsflash. So-called "Christian" holy guys are just mean, rotten, child molesting scum bags as well. Mullahs holy men. Not all Ministers, Chaplains, Rabbis are pure as the driven snow. Just at all Reich Winger Ministers who have been bused child abuse.
 
15th post
Newsflash. So-called "Christian" holy guys are just mean, rotten, child molesting scum bags as well. Mullahs holy men. Not all Ministers, Chaplains, Rabbis are pure as the driven snow. Just at all Reich Winger Ministers who have been bused child abuse.
Could you get anymore off topic
 
Why don't you compose your thoughts before posting?

1. Is it moral for the US to oppose Iran producing nuclear weapons?
2. If yes, how should the US go about doing this?
3. If negotiation fails, should the US take direct action against Iran?
4. If yes, what action should that include?

If you can't or won't answer these questions, your opinions on this subject are worthless.

1. It is totally immoral to prevent nuclear development because that is the only way countries can be safe, by having a deterrent to invasion.

2. The US has no legal or ethical grounds for preventing anyone from having nukes because we not only illegally used them on civilians, but we are the one illegally invading innocent countries.

3. The US should "take direct actions" against the offender who is committing genocide, which is Israel. The natives and land owners are the Palestinians. The Israelis are Polish and Russian refugee invaders who never paid for almost any land, and have no legal right to even be there.

4. The UN should do whatever it takes to disarm Israel and stop its obviously genocidal policies, like the illegal starvation blockade.
Iran harms no one, so should be left alone.
 
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