Am I the only athiest on here, who when...

[mudwhistle]

The problem I see with most atheists and agnostics is they don't really understand the Bible. The Gospel isn't about religion...it's about spirituality. Religions pick their part of the Gospel to focus on and even make up their own strange rituals. This was something Christ told us to avoid.

Do you think if I got members of those branches of Christianity I mentioned in my last post together in a room and repeated what you said they would agree with you?

Probably not. All a true believer can do is present the truth and hope people will recognize it.

Even among the Disciples only Peter knew who Jesus was. The reason, he proclaimed, was because God had revealed this to him and not to others. It's the function of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. Not everyone is open to it.....even Jerry Faldwell.

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

Maybe if you read and comprehended the Bible you'd already know the answer to that.

It's pretty straight forward.

I'm just saying.....

So, if I read the ahistorical ramblings, myths and fairy tales of stone age Palestinians I'd find an answer...doubt that

 

[Si modo]

I can't find who said this (all I find are references to AA; it seems Ingersoll-esque to me), but I think it says a lot:

Religion is for those afraid of going to hell; spirituality is for those who have been there.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't understand atheist who feel the need to tell everyone they are an atheist.
Why?

At the same time it is annoying as hell that forums everywhere have these same tired threads where someone proclaims "I am an athiest...look at me!" all the while making comments about how stupid everyone else is for believing in a God.

Why not STFU and let people believe what they want? Belief in God comforts millions of people everyday...I think that is great. Better than popping pills to make you feel better.

I'm skipping over a lot of posts I haven't read in this thread to respond to this one, so if somebody else has already responded--probably better than I will--I apologize.

Si Modo and Jillian and others touched on it in their comments thus far--Atheism is every much a religion as is Judaism or Christianity in that it is faith based and most of its advocates are quite vocal in in their advocacy. And yes, the religious of all stripes--Atheist, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, et al--who wear their religion on their sleeve and/or are in your face are generally annoying.

I disagree that discussing it is denying anybody the ability to believe what they want. If we didn't discuss those things that are important to us or interesting to us, there would be little discussion of anything. I thought Grump was reasonable enough in the O.P. to be non offensive and obviously it is a subject of interest to a lot of us.

Even you, since you were interested enough to check out the thread and post in it.

I think for many of us it is interesting to test our beliefs or personal theories and see if they hold up against scrutiny. Others participate for their own purposes. But the exercise itself, does seem to draw a crowd.

 

[HUGGY]

I have, and will likely do so again.
However, when a religious person knocks on our door and invites us to their church I thank them, afterall they have nothing but positive intent.
But an atheist has nothing positive to offer. Their intent is rarely positive, usually ranging from smug self promotion or just plain insulting.

Offering to brainwash you is a positive intent?

Athiests are doing you and the world a service by attempting to make the human species smarter by pointing out that basing one's life on fantasy is childish and ultimately dangerous. That is a positive effort.

No. It would be nice if they stopped there...but recently they've been attempting to take God out of our lives even though it's against the law to do so.

It's really none of their business to stop people from believing in fantasies. And believing in a fantasy doesn't make one less smart. After all....Star Trek became the inspiration for cell phones. What was once fantasy is now reality.

WOW!!!!

How can someone "take" god out of your life? You are free to think anything you want. You are also free to gather in your churches and tell each other and convince each other that your invisible freind is real. What reasonable reality based humans reject is the god squads constant interfenence in the progress of knowledge and the freedom to chose how others want their lives. Just the interference in the world wide effort to offer birth control to desperately poor communities causes harm that actually ends up killing millions of real humans by starvation. That is REAL harm my freind.

The cell phone excuse is funny. That is the strangest example of faith/reality I think I have ever seen.

 

[Foxfyre]

I got it. So you are one that likes "religious" Christians. The ones that have thoughts about what they would like God to be like and how he can better fit their lives. The ones that create their own gods.

You don't mind religions and gods, just not the one true God. Fair enough. Keep in mind though that hoping he doesn't exist won't make him vanish.

The problems with the likes of you - as compared to normal Christians - is that your belief in what Christianity stands for is the only true way.

There are cults within your cult...

It has to be the belief. It's what Jesus said.

You know....Christ? The guy that Christianity is based on?

It's not like a Christian can pick and choose which part of the Gospel he will adhere to. We have to take the whole deal into our hearts or we're hypocrites....which is why there are so many bad Christians around for folks like you to make fun of.

But we can agree and disagree on what the Gospel is. I don't agree with the Roman Catholic or Episcopalian's teachings/beliefs about communion elements and on some other points of doctrine, but can joyfully worship with either and their beliefs about that bother me not in the least nor harm me in any way. I happy debate the points with those I think will not be threatened in having their beliefs challenged, but I would not presume to try to dissuade anybody from whatever doctrines or 'gospel' that comforts them.

Christians have been torn and damaged by differing doctrines of the Trinity, for instance, more than any other single doctrine and I really think Jesus is very unhappy about that. There are other divisions related to communion, to baptism, to how one gets 'saved' and more. But in spite of it all, there is the core, the central figure, the Christ himself and the relationship we experience in our soul, that binds us all together regardless of divisions re various doctrines. C.S. Lewis described that as "Mere Christianity" or what we have if we strip away all the dogmas and doctrines and rituals and requirements that we have tacked onto that central figure.

I suspect when we are able to get these questions resolved face to face, we are all going to be chagrined and embarrassed at how wrong we got some of it and how badly we have 'done Church'.

Fortunately, I believe in a very big God who is very tolerant of our human insufficiencies.

 

[topspin]

I was an athiest till I became a Rastafarian

 

[uscitizen]

Granted I got here late, but what are Christian scriptures doing on an atheist thread?

Christians trying to take over the world.

What's it to you? As long as you choose to not believe you may go your merry own way while in a Christian country such as America. No Christian is going to chop your head off for not converting.

So what problem do you have with other people believing in the God of Avaham Yizchak and Yaakov anyhow?

No I will just get locked up and everything taken for violating a christian based morallity law.
Religion is fine as long as it stays out of govt.

 

[Foxfyre]

Christians trying to take over the world.

What's it to you? As long as you choose to not believe you may go your merry own way while in a Christian country such as America. No Christian is going to chop your head off for not converting.

So what problem do you have with other people believing in the God of Avaham Yizchak and Yaakov anyhow?

No I will just get locked up and everything taken for violating a christian based morallity law.
Religion is fine as long as it stays out of govt.

Religion has never and will never 'stay out of government' though, because our religious teachings or the influence of the religious around us, especailly here in the USA, are what forms a great deal of our culture, values, ethics, morals, and that incorporates itself into our laws and regulations. Something has to establish our views of right and wrong.

No government ever formed based on the principle that 'there is no God' has ever worked out very well for the people. I think given the choice between those 'godless' governments and those formed by Christians based on Christian ethics, even the Atheists would choose the latter.

 

[uscitizen]

Wrong for this atheist.

 

[Si modo]

I don't understand atheist who feel the need to tell everyone they are an atheist.
Why?

At the same time it is annoying as hell that forums everywhere have these same tired threads where someone proclaims "I am an athiest...look at me!" all the while making comments about how stupid everyone else is for believing in a God.

Why not STFU and let people believe what they want? Belief in God comforts millions of people everyday...I think that is great. Better than popping pills to make you feel better.

I'm skipping over a lot of posts I haven't read in this thread to respond to this one, so if somebody else has already responded--probably better than I will--I apologize.

Si Modo and Jillian and others touched on it in their comments thus far--Atheism is every much a religion as is Judaism or Christianity in that it is faith based and most of its advocates are quite vocal in in their advocacy. And yes, the religious of all stripes--Atheist, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, et al--who wear their religion on their sleeve and/or are in your face are generally annoying.

I disagree that discussing it is denying anybody the ability to believe what they want. If we didn't discuss those things that are important to us or interesting to us, there would be little discussion of anything. I thought Grump was reasonable enough in the O.P. to be non offensive and obviously it is a subject of interest to a lot of us.

Even you, since you were interested enough to check out the thread and post in it.

I think for many of us it is interesting to test our beliefs or personal theories and see if they hold up against scrutiny. Others participate for their own purposes. But the exercise itself, does seem to draw a crowd.

I don't agree that atheism is a religion at all. I argue that atheism is a belief because its tenet that there is no God, by default, is a belief. It can neither be proven nor disproven, thus it is a belief.

 

[uscitizen]

I don't understand atheist who feel the need to tell everyone they are an atheist.
Why?

At the same time it is annoying as hell that forums everywhere have these same tired threads where someone proclaims "I am an athiest...look at me!" all the while making comments about how stupid everyone else is for believing in a God.

Why not STFU and let people believe what they want? Belief in God comforts millions of people everyday...I think that is great. Better than popping pills to make you feel better.

I'm skipping over a lot of posts I haven't read in this thread to respond to this one, so if somebody else has already responded--probably better than I will--I apologize.

Si Modo and Jillian and others touched on it in their comments thus far--Atheism is every much a religion as is Judaism or Christianity in that it is faith based and most of its advocates are quite vocal in in their advocacy. And yes, the religious of all stripes--Atheist, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, et al--who wear their religion on their sleeve and/or are in your face are generally annoying.

I disagree that discussing it is denying anybody the ability to believe what they want. If we didn't discuss those things that are important to us or interesting to us, there would be little discussion of anything. I thought Grump was reasonable enough in the O.P. to be non offensive and obviously it is a subject of interest to a lot of us.

Even you, since you were interested enough to check out the thread and post in it.

I think for many of us it is interesting to test our beliefs or personal theories and see if they hold up against scrutiny. Others participate for their own purposes. But the exercise itself, does seem to draw a crowd.

I don't agree that atheism is a religion at all. I argue that atheism is a belief because its tenet that there is no God, by default, is a belief. It can neither be proven nor disproven, thus it is a belief.

Yep the same as proving the existance of god. Just a belief. But as an atheist you get to keep your soul.

 

[Sheldon]

I think the word religion implies a set of beliefs, a social practice, and a defined moral code for behavior. And the difference between a religion and a cult is how socially acceptable the practices and beliefs are.

Atheism is a belief, and aside from the belief in there being no god, it's also a belief that your moral code comes from within; you don't need to be told how to behave one a week, you just follow your conscience.

No idea if there is or isn't a god. It doesn't really matter to me. I just try not to be an asshole all the time.

 

[Immanuel]

Mt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mr 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if possible, even the elect.

I may be wrong, but to me, "if possible" has always meant, if it were possible meaning that it is not possible for the elect to be deceived. The NIV translation for both Matthew 24:24 and Mark 13:22 is "if that were possible". The King James Version is "if it were possible" for both passages.

The way I read that is that it is not possible to deceive the elect.

I'm not saying my interpretation is correct, but that is how I understand those two verses.

Immie

Well it would certainly be possible for some but probably not for all the elect is the way I would read it. And if your translations are accurate and honest the words "that were" should be italicized if they are included, which means they are ADDED by the translator.

That is the case that those words were added. My point being that it is the interpretation I go by. My understanding is that those words were "added" because the original language structure does not require them so to make the translation readable in English they must be added. Therefore, another interpretation is always a possibility.

Immie

 

[Sky Dancer]

What's it to me if Christians try and take over the world?

Nothing, as long as they leave me to practice my religion and life in peace. Sadly, they can't stay out of civil marriage law.

I'm fine with marraige being between a man and a woman. It is homosexuals who can't stay out of trying to change it.

That's exactly what I mean. Some of you folks can't let us live in peace. I'm married. Get over it. I have as much right to care for my loved ones as you do for yours.

 

[Si modo]

What's it to me if Christians try and take over the world?

Nothing, as long as they leave me to practice my religion and life in peace. Sadly, they can't stay out of civil marriage law.

I'm fine with marraige being between a man and a woman. It is homosexuals who can't stay out of trying to change it.

That's exactly what I mean. Some of you folks can't let us live in peace. I'm married. Get over it. I have as much right to care for my loved ones as you do for yours.

Here's a concept for both of you: Have government stay out of marriage.

That would make too much sense, though.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't understand atheist who feel the need to tell everyone they are an atheist.
Why?

At the same time it is annoying as hell that forums everywhere have these same tired threads where someone proclaims "I am an athiest...look at me!" all the while making comments about how stupid everyone else is for believing in a God.

Why not STFU and let people believe what they want? Belief in God comforts millions of people everyday...I think that is great. Better than popping pills to make you feel better.

I'm skipping over a lot of posts I haven't read in this thread to respond to this one, so if somebody else has already responded--probably better than I will--I apologize.

Si Modo and Jillian and others touched on it in their comments thus far--Atheism is every much a religion as is Judaism or Christianity in that it is faith based and most of its advocates are quite vocal in in their advocacy. And yes, the religious of all stripes--Atheist, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, et al--who wear their religion on their sleeve and/or are in your face are generally annoying.

I disagree that discussing it is denying anybody the ability to believe what they want. If we didn't discuss those things that are important to us or interesting to us, there would be little discussion of anything. I thought Grump was reasonable enough in the O.P. to be non offensive and obviously it is a subject of interest to a lot of us.

Even you, since you were interested enough to check out the thread and post in it.

I think for many of us it is interesting to test our beliefs or personal theories and see if they hold up against scrutiny. Others participate for their own purposes. But the exercise itself, does seem to draw a crowd.

I don't agree that atheism is a religion at all. I argue that atheism is a belief because its tenet that there is no God, by default, is a belief. It can neither be proven nor disproven, thus it is a belief.

Yes a faith based belief. One that the adbocates of Atheism defend and proclaim with every bit as much passion and fervor as the most evangelistic Holy Roller Christian. But no more than I can prove to another person that there is a God, neither can the Atheist prove to another that there is not.

But I should have clarified that I wasn't speaking for Si Modo or Jillian and should have clarified that you would likely interpret your own remarks differently than I interpreted them.

But if I needed no other theory to convince me that Atheism is a religion as much as any other religion, it is because Atheists themselves have demanded to be recognized as a religion and have been declared by the courts to be so, including some groups having their own 501(c)(3) status.

Atheism Is Protected As a Religion, says Court For the purposes of protection under the First Amendment, the U.S. Court of
Appeals for the Second Circuit (May 13, 1997), decided the Orange County N.Y.
Department of Probation could not force Robert Warner, an atheist, to attend
religion-based alcoholic treatment programs against the dictates of his own
beliefs.

"The district court agreed with Mr. Warner's argument that these meetings involved
a substantial religious element. Participants were told to "believe that a Power
greater than ourselves could restore us," and that they must "turn our will and
our lives over to the care of God as we understand him." In addition, the "Step"
program ordered those participating to "Admit to God ... the exact nature of our
wrongs," be "entirely ready to have God remove all these defects ... (and) ask Him
to remove our shortcomings," and to seek "through prayer and meditation to improve
our conscious contact with God, as we (understand) Him. The meetings were also
punctuated with frequent prayers of a Christian nature."

Four months into the program Mr. Warner complained that, as an Atheist, he found
the meetings objectionable due to their religious nature. It was then that his
probation officer determined that Warner lacked sufficient commitment to the idea
of learning the techniques of remaining sober, even though he apparently had not
been found in violation of his probation orders to remain sober!

"Attorneys for Mr. Warner relied on a number of legal precedents, including:" [refer to link] http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/alanon1.htm Atheist Groups in Prison
But two years earlier,in the case of Kaufman v. McCaughtry, the 7th Circuit Court
of Appeals declared atheism a religion for purposes of protection under the
Establishment Clause. The court said prison officials violated an inmate's rights
because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

Atheism Is Protected As a Religion, says Court

And there is this site:
https://atheists.org/about

And there are variations on that such as the Internet Infifels.

The Secular Web is owned and operated by Internet Infidels Inc., a 501(c)(3) nonprofit educational organization dedicated to promoting and defending a naturalistic worldview on the Internet.

As defined by Paul Draper, naturalism is "the hypothesis that the natural world is a closed system, which means that nothing that is not a part of the natural world affects it." Thus, "naturalism implies that there are no supernatural entities"—including God.
Secular Web: Atheism, Agnosticism, Naturalism, Skepticism and Secularism

 

[Si modo]

I'm skipping over a lot of posts I haven't read in this thread to respond to this one, so if somebody else has already responded--probably better than I will--I apologize.

Si Modo and Jillian and others touched on it in their comments thus far--Atheism is every much a religion as is Judaism or Christianity in that it is faith based and most of its advocates are quite vocal in in their advocacy. And yes, the religious of all stripes--Atheist, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, et al--who wear their religion on their sleeve and/or are in your face are generally annoying.

I disagree that discussing it is denying anybody the ability to believe what they want. If we didn't discuss those things that are important to us or interesting to us, there would be little discussion of anything. I thought Grump was reasonable enough in the O.P. to be non offensive and obviously it is a subject of interest to a lot of us.

Even you, since you were interested enough to check out the thread and post in it.

I think for many of us it is interesting to test our beliefs or personal theories and see if they hold up against scrutiny. Others participate for their own purposes. But the exercise itself, does seem to draw a crowd.

I don't agree that atheism is a religion at all. I argue that atheism is a belief because its tenet that there is no God, by default, is a belief. It can neither be proven nor disproven, thus it is a belief.

Yes a faith based belief. One that the adbocates of Atheism defend and proclaim with every bit as much passion and fervor as the most evangelistic Holy Roller Christian. But no more than I can prove to another person that there is a God, neither can the Atheist prove to another that there is not.

But if I needed no other theory to convince me that Ahteism is a religion as much as any other religion, it is because Atheists themselves have demanded to be recognized as a religion and have been declared by the courts to be so, including some groups having their own 501(c)(3) status.

Atheism Is Protected As a Religion, says Court For the purposes of protection under the First Amendment, the U.S. Court of
Appeals for the Second Circuit (May 13, 1997), decided the Orange County N.Y.
Department of Probation could not force Robert Warner, an atheist, to attend
religion-based alcoholic treatment programs against the dictates of his own
beliefs.

"The district court agreed with Mr. Warner's argument that these meetings involved
a substantial religious element. Participants were told to "believe that a Power
greater than ourselves could restore us," and that they must "turn our will and
our lives over to the care of God as we understand him." In addition, the "Step"
program ordered those participating to "Admit to God ... the exact nature of our
wrongs," be "entirely ready to have God remove all these defects ... (and) ask Him
to remove our shortcomings," and to seek "through prayer and meditation to improve
our conscious contact with God, as we (understand) Him. The meetings were also
punctuated with frequent prayers of a Christian nature."

Four months into the program Mr. Warner complained that, as an Atheist, he found
the meetings objectionable due to their religious nature. It was then that his
probation officer determined that Warner lacked sufficient commitment to the idea
of learning the techniques of remaining sober, even though he apparently had not
been found in violation of his probation orders to remain sober!

"Attorneys for Mr. Warner relied on a number of legal precedents, including:" [refer to link] http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/alanon1.htm Atheist Groups in Prison
But two years earlier,in the case of Kaufman v. McCaughtry, the 7th Circuit Court
of Appeals declared atheism a religion for purposes of protection under the
Establishment Clause. The court said prison officials violated an inmate's rights
because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

Atheism Is Protected As a Religion, says Court

And there is this site:
https://atheists.org/about

And there are variations on that such as the Internet Infifels.

The Secular Web is owned and operated by Internet Infidels Inc., a 501(c)(3) nonprofit educational organization dedicated to promoting and defending a naturalistic worldview on the Internet.

As defined by Paul Draper, naturalism is "the hypothesis that the natural world is a closed system, which means that nothing that is not a part of the natural world affects it." Thus, "naturalism implies that there are no supernatural entities"—including God.
Secular Web: Atheism, Agnosticism, Naturalism, Skepticism and Secularism

Excellent information! Thanks.

 

[rightwinger]

If there is a god....he would rather hang out with atheists than the fundamentalist whack jobs

 

[Si modo]

If there is a god....he would rather hang out with atheists than the fundamentalist whack jobs

Maybe that's why fiscal conservatives like to post on USMB?