Am I alone in thinking wikileaks is a GOOD thing?

[mudwhistle]

I don't have to. Eric Holder does. See how that works? He's top puppy at Justice. His call. And... the President, of course. Obama has a great opportunity here to show some backbone and go after America's enemies.

And from what I understand? He's pissed off about this. ONE thing I agree with him on.

Correction. According to Gibbs, Obama is not pissed off, he is merely "not pleased".

Because Obama isn't a real Washington insider he gets a pass....even though most of the garbage happened with his Administration. He wants the US to look bad.

It's really sad when you think about it.

 

[boedicca]

The Fourth Estate has become the Fifth Column, nobody's watch-dogging our government.... This makes them not only careless but also more corrupt. Wikileaks is providing a valuable service that the US Press abandoned. I have donated and I urge everyone else to do so.

Cuss and discuss.....

Problem is it's making Obamer look really bad now.

Wonder how he's gonna spin this shit-ball.

This is being compared to Carter's Iran Hostage weakening. He looked incompetent and ineffectual in the global arena, just as Obama does now.

 

[boedicca]

It's sad that a major part of your fantasy life is comprised of your imaginary ass kicking of total strangers on a message board geared towards a country in which you do not even reside.

I can only assume that you have already offended everyone in the twee little place you claim as your abode.

It's not a fantasy - that's your mindset...it's a fact..

As for where I live, that piss weak argument comes out EVERY TIME I'm kicking a neocon whackjobs arse....nothing new there....

Really, this is something you should discuss with a good cognitive therapist.

Good luck!

 

[Jeremy]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY[/ame]
​

 

[Annie]

if i steal something and give it to you... and you know that the goods are stolen, you are committing a crime as well if you keep those goods.

here, he knows he's publishing classified information stolen by someone.

he's as guilty of espionage as the person who gave him the info, imo.

That reasoning was the position the NYTimes took with Climategate emails. Guess they found a different standard for the Wikileaks.

And of course? National security? Sure...sell it to the highest bidder.

You cannot equate climategate to this. Climategate doesn't rate in the reprcussions this will have.

I think Jillian's reasoning correct. However, when it was about the war, I don't remember DOJ going after the NY Times on publishing. Now that it's the State Department files? I don't know what happens regarding selective prosecutions if that were attempted?

 

[Dr Grump]

Cool, remind me of that next time somebody attempts to the blow the whistle on Big Tobacco, or the likes of Erin Brokovich, or those fools who run those private armies in Iraq, or any one of a dozen other examples where without whistle blowers there would be no accountability.

this isn't whistleblowing.... it's espionage. whistleblowing is "the generals are discriminating against so-and-so and are mistreating a certain class of people... or stealing from the govt... or hiding c-rations... or torturing prisoners.

big tobacco isn't responsible for our security. our diplomatic services are and there's a fine line between candor and an intentional effort to sabotage our diplomatic efforts. we're not talking about iran-contra or some type of illegality or corruption.

Has he given away US troop movements? No
Where you nukes are stored? No
Where you Atlantic and Pacific fleets are positioned? NO
Passwords to sensitive military installations? No

This is just conservative shills wanting their pound of flesh.

do you think it helps or hinders diplomatic efforts for the fact that the saudis are ok with israel taking out iran to be made public? do you think that helps the saudis work with us?

do you think it's helpful to have pakistan know that we don't trust its nuclear capability? it's one thing for them to suspect... it's another for them to know.

I for one am now glad that it is ALMOST an indisputable fact that certain Saudi businesses fund AQ. I think the vast majority of people suspected it, but now it looks like a fact. I hope Obama does something about THAT, which is far more important that some dude releasing MEMOS - that's right folks MEMOS - not freaking state secrets - to the media.

You all need to get a grip - seriously - I feel like I'm in an episode of the Bold and the Beautiful with the about of DQ's on this thread.

we already knew that the saudis funded AQ.. .

and i assume that obama already knew it, too. it didn't require this guy's release of stolen documents to confirm it.

Hey, if the US, Israel, Saudi - whoever - wants to play the Big Game, then boo sux to them if their Machiavellian, conniving diplomats put things on paper that can come and bite them in the arse.

Pakistan will never ever be a friend to the US. Pretending otherwise doesn't make it any less contentious that now it is a 'fact'. The people in charge of both countries know this. Now that we all do, so what? What has changed? They can't pretend any more? Good....

 

[Dr Grump]

Really, this is something you should discuss with a good cognitive therapist.

Good luck!

When you can't keep up, you should back off quietly....

 

[jillian]

Problem is it's making Obamer look really bad now.

Wonder how he's gonna spin this shit-ball.

it isn't making president obama (note the spelling) look anything...

sorry to disappoint you.

 

[boedicca]

Grumpalupagus,

You would benefit the most of anyone in this thread from your own advice.

So, toodles. Go play in traffic.

 

[Jeremy]

Who here thinks that Dr. Grump is just your average, boring, typical, liberal appologist?

Pick me! Pick me!

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I would like to correlate this with the Civil and Revolutionary Wars and how underlying circumstances could somehow apply to the Weimar Republic's rise in the 30's.

 

[jillian]

Really, this is something you should discuss with a good cognitive therapist.

Good luck!

When you can't keep up, you should back off quietly....

she gets cranky when people kick her butt...

 

[Jeremy]

I would like to correlate this with the Civil and Revolutionary Wars and how underlying circumstances could somehow apply to the Weimar Republic's rise in the 30's.

......... wha?

 

[shintao]

1) The person who took the 'secrets' is the one responsible for the 'crime', not the person publishing it (unless they are one and the same, but in this case, it is not so)
2) And when you look back on that 'classified' shit, was it really that classified, or was it made classified as some BS excuse to cover your arse for doing something, or being somewhere, that the US has no business being (think Central America in the 1980s)...

You cannot publish information stolen from the US Government. That's against our laws.

And there are Congresscreeps that have done it and weren't held to account.

It seems to me there was quite a bit of government information flowing to the press when Clinton was being impeached. Have we no shame or a cork for the leaks?

 

[Dr Grump]

Really, this is something you should discuss with a good cognitive therapist.

Good luck!

When you can't keep up, you should back off quietly....

she gets cranky when people kick her butt...

She's used to playing with the peanut gallery....

 

[Dr Grump]

Who here thinks that Dr. Grump is just your average, boring, typical, liberal appologist?

Pick me! Pick me!

Who here thinks Jeremy is crappy song by Pearl Jam....

 

[Trajan]

Cool, remind me of that next time somebody attempts to the blow the whistle on Big Tobacco, or the likes of Erin Brokovich, or those fools who run those private armies in Iraq, or any one of a dozen other examples where without whistle blowers there would be no accountability.

this isn't whistleblowing.... it's espionage. whistleblowing is "the generals are discriminating against so-and-so and are mistreating a certain class of people... or stealing from the govt... or hiding c-rations... or torturing prisoners.

big tobacco isn't responsible for our security. our diplomatic services are and there's a fine line between candor and an intentional effort to sabotage our diplomatic efforts. we're not talking about iran-contra or some type of illegality or corruption.



do you think it helps or hinders diplomatic efforts for the fact that the saudis are ok with israel taking out iran to be made public? do you think that helps the saudis work with us?

do you think it's helpful to have pakistan know that we don't trust its nuclear capability? it's one thing for them to suspect... it's another for them to know.

I for one am now glad that it is ALMOST an indisputable fact that certain Saudi businesses fund AQ. I think the vast majority of people suspected it, but now it looks like a fact. I hope Obama does something about THAT, which is far more important that some dude releasing MEMOS - that's right folks MEMOS - not freaking state secrets - to the media.

You all need to get a grip - seriously - I feel like I'm in an episode of the Bold and the Beautiful with the about of DQ's on this thread.

we already knew that the saudis funded AQ.. .

and i assume that obama already knew it, too. it didn't require this guy's release of stolen documents to confirm it.

Hey, if the US, Israel, Saudi - whoever - wants to play the Big Game, then boo sux to them if their Machiavellian, conniving diplomats put things on paper that can come and bite them in the arse.

Pakistan will never ever be a friend to the US. Pretending otherwise doesn't make it any less contentious that now it is a 'fact'. The people in charge of both countries know this. Now that we all do, so what? What has changed? They can't pretend any more? Good....

so I am trying to catch up here, you think that nothing should be done to those that took the data?

 

[jillian]

That reasoning was the position the NYTimes took with Climategate emails. Guess they found a different standard for the Wikileaks.

And of course? National security? Sure...sell it to the highest bidder.

You cannot equate climategate to this. Climategate doesn't rate in the reprcussions this will have.

I think Jillian's reasoning correct. However, when it was about the war, I don't remember DOJ going after the NY Times on publishing. Now that it's the State Department files? I don't know what happens regarding selective prosecutions if that were attempted?

what are you talking about? they USED the NY Times to disseminate their lies through judy miller.

 

[Jeremy]

When you can't keep up, you should back off quietly....

she gets cranky when people kick her butt...

She's used to playing with the peanut gallery....

Some people are just used to tongue punching Soros' fart box.

 

[California Girl]

Lets see, I held a TS security clearance. My wife still to this day does not know about some of the places I went and why. And why? Because it was classified. Now, what if I wrote her a letter about all those places and things that I was involved in? What the hell is the difference? The difference is that I would be telling my spouse who since she doesn't have a clearance I would have been in deep shit and spent some time behind bars. But if a News Paper prints it for the world to see then the first amendment comes into play? I don't think so.

1) The person who took the 'secrets' is the one responsible for the 'crime', not the person publishing it (unless they are one and the same, but in this case, it is not so)
2) And when you look back on that 'classified' shit, was it really that classified, or was it made classified as some BS excuse to cover your arse for doing something, or being somewhere, that the US has no business being (think Central America in the 1980s)...

1. Both are equally guilty. It's espionage.

2. It's not about the actual information. It is about the damage that the release of ANY confidential information. It will make other countries less likely to share information with us and that puts American lives at risk.

Not rocket science.